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Turkey scrambles F-16's to Syrian border

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Upon detection of Syrian Mi-8 and Mi-17 helicopters as close as four miles to the border, Turkey scrambled six F-16 Falcons in three separate incidents yesterday. No combat ensued and no actual airspace violations occurred. But, this is no doubt an effort to test the response time of Turkish air defense as well as Turkish resolve to back up their stated intent to engage hostile threats near the border. The Mi-8 & 17 is the same basic aircraft, except that the Mi-8 variant is also used for command & control and electronic warfare. The Mi-17 is the primary export version of the transport/gunship variant. Both aircraft are Russian built.

These actions have the mark of classic Russian brinkmanship. During the 1948 Berlin Airlift, Soviet fighters would fly at Allied transport aircraft as if preparing to line them up to shoot them down only to suddenly turn away at the last moment. The Soviets practiced similar tactics at sea toward US & NATO warships throughout the Cold War.

In a coincidental development, Britain's Sunday Times reported 'diplomatic sources' as saying that Russians may in fact have shot down the Turkish RF-4E or were in command of the Syrian unit which did. This follows a claim by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov that Russia has 'objective data' on the circumstances of the shoot down, which they are 'ready to share'. It is noteworthy that Mr. Lavrov did not say the data was 'Syrian' data, or in any way obtained ‘from’ the Syrians.

If Russians executed the shoot down in any fashion, this would only have been done either because Turkey or NATO was on to something and sent the RF-4E to confirm it and/or, because President Putin wanted to send a clear message to NATO not to think about any Libya style intervention or establishment of no fly zones. Russian command & control of the shoot down would also explain Britain's expressed support for 'robust action' which has now been elevated by Britain's Foreign Secretary William Hague calling for a UN Security Council resolution to permit military intervention in Syria, effectively calling Mr. Putin's bluff.

A Russian presence in Syria exercising command control over forces able to project lethal force outside of Syria's borders and on the southern flank of a NATO member nation, would by its very nature elevate Syria from being a local issue to a NATO issue and necessitate that a close eye be focused on such activities by NATO surveillance assets.

If that has been the case then it is likely that the Turkish RF-4E was on a mission with the full knowledge and consent of senior NATO officials. Since, if Russia had already intervened against the Syrian rebels while at the same time holding a veto ‘ax’ at the neck of any UN Security Council resolution, then it would expose Russian duplicity and hand NATO justification to act without seeking UN approval via an obviously corrupted process. Putin would then be faced with the choice of backing down and risk losing the Russian naval base in Syria or risking a proxy war with NATO in Syria.

For now is seems that NATO may be holding open a door for Russia to make a quiet exit from Syria without being exposed to the world as enabling Basher Assad's massacres in Syria. If that is the case and Putin doesn't exit quietly, the next thing we may see is a UN Security Council session with evidence of Russian ‘dirty deeds’ in Syria being briefed by Britain’s Mr. Hague.

Turkey scrambles F-16's to Syrian border - Arlington Foreign Policy | Examiner.com
 
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I hope that AKP won't drag us into a war... I don't know what they are thinking but quote from messenger of Persian Empire

ngbbs4fceba4f8eb3c.jpg


This is madness!!
 
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I hope that AKP won't drag us into a war... I don't know what they are thinking but quote from messenger of Persian Empire

ngbbs4fceba4f8eb3c.jpg


This is madness!!

Turkey will remain Turkey with Asad in Syria. Mark my words !
 
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I hope that AKP won't drag us into a war... I don't know what they are thinking but quote from messenger of Persian Empire

ngbbs4fceba4f8eb3c.jpg


This is madness!!

They down our plane, kill two pilots, shoot into our border and we should remain silent? If we do not respond to this madness we will be seen as gutless. The thing is our government thinks exactly like you, they want to solve this issue with diplomacy since they fear the outcome of conflict. I know one thing for sure, and that is we are a weak country if we do not answer to this crime.
 
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Turkey will remain Turkey with Asad in Syria. Mark my words !

I didn't said that I was not supporting weapon transfer and training for FSA but even that has backlash as we can see from increasing support of Syria and Iran to PKK... Turks can't open a TV without seeing death soldiers because of PKK attacks... One Turkish citizens life should worth more than millions of Syrians for Turkish goverment not doing wars and wasting life for GCC interests...

P.S: Although removing Syria is in Turkey's interests too but I value a life of Turkish citizens more than what Turkey can gain by isolating Iran in ME and having a land route which can be used for pipelines and railways to connect Turkey with GCC...

They down our plane, kill two pilots, shoot into our border and we should remain silent? If we do not respond to this madness we will be seen as gutless. The thing is our government thinks exactly like you, they want to solve this issue with diplomacy since they fear the outcome of conflict. I know one thing for sure, and that is we are a weak country if we do not answer to this crime.

you can read my response to Aeronut.
 
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I didn't said that I was not supporting weapon transfer and training for FSA but even that has backlash as we can see from increasing support of Syria and Iran to PKK... Turks can't open a TV without seeing death soldiers because of PKK attacks... One Turkish citizens life should worth more than millions of Syrians for Turkish goverment not doing wars and wasting life for GCC interests...

P.S: Although removing Syria is in Turkey's interests too but I value a life of Turkish citizens more than what Turkey can gain by isolating Iran in ME and having a land route which can be used for pipelines and railways to connect Turkey with GCC...

you can read my response to Aeronut.

Iran supports a psycopath who massacres his own people, to hell with them. If you do indeed value a Turkish citizen's life you should support an answer to their atrocity by murdering our pilots. We always think and think and think about consequences, that is why we are weak country. A strong country would answer immediatly like bombing these sams/turrets, which would be the right move, and then act to make the consequences in their favor. In fact we should bomb Assads palace the same night. If we did something like that, the region would come to understand that Turkey is a country not to be messed with. In other words it would be a power demonstration.

Edit: Just imagine what Russia, Iran or Israel would do to their neighbour who downs their plane in international waters?

Forget the populist politicans, why is our military leaders so weak-minded and passive, why!
 
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Iran supports a psycopath who massacres his own people, to hell with them. If you do indeed value a Turkish citizen's life you should support an answer to their atrocity by murdering our pilots. We always think and think and think about consequences, that is why we are weak country. A strong country would answer immediatly like bombing these sams/turrets (Israel is an example of strong retaliation). In fact we should bomb Assads palace the same night.

I don't care about Iran more than I care about my own organic wastes expect the Iranian Turks... This war won't be about sending the messege of ''We won't tolarate attacks on our citizens and sovereignty'' this war would be about being a mercanary for GCC interests and little bit for our own...

And to be honest I don't want Turkey to be ''strong'' country if it means that attacking mad regime provacations... Strong countries only defend themselves, they don't try to ''punish'' regimes/countries by wasting their precious citizens lifes... And Israel is a cowardly nation and a state that fears its own shadow... That is not the definition of strong, it is the definition of violance born from fear... Only weak ones start wars... Strong and cleaver ones would either avoid it or end it...
 
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They down our plane, kill two pilots, shoot into our border and we should remain silent? If we do not respond to this madness we will be seen as gutless. The thing is our government thinks exactly like you, they want to solve this issue with diplomacy since they fear the outcome of conflict. I know one thing for sure, and that is we are a weak country if we do not answer to this crime.

The true crime is giving the opposite's militant groups training and strategy in Turkey and then weaponize them agains Assad. This illigal movement is caused by AKP to and thanks to them there is a civil war going on and you want that Turkey go in to that mess to. If our soldiers getting killed by terrorist pkk you dont say anything about it but if it gomes to a war you say that government is weak. This is nothing but hypocriteness.

Iran supports a psycopath who massacres his own people.

AKP is responsable for this because of the fact that they dont search for any diplomatic ways. AKP is handling exactly like PKK now. First trying diplamocy agains Syria, if it not helping then going to anti democracy mode and giving the opposites weapons so they can throw gas on fire. The real psycopaths are the ones that weaponize opposites so the massacre get bigger and bigger.
 
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I am not in favour of a full scale invation; however the first response should have been an air strike to these air systems. Turkey then should of said 50:50. Well atleast that's what isreal would have done.

By this, AKP goverment would have proved it's seriousness and it's grip to power.
 
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Actions are taken while taking future implicaiton in mind. What have Pakistani achieved by participating in WOT nothing but destruction and thousand people being killed , economy going to gutter.Thanks to the war we are fighting.

Turkey is a developing country with a good economy and good army.If u go to war then u are bleeding ur soldiers for nothing .U are weaking ur economy and u are killing people who are Muslims in this case............

Y dont u think of all these event like this (Call it conspiracy theory or whatever but this is waht i think). Turkey is a muslims country which was once center of khilafat.Now its one of the most powerful (economy and military wise)Muslim country on this earth. How can u ur enemy (friend in disguise) can break ur knee. Simple answer implicate the country in to a war , country will bleed its soldiers and economy will go down the gutter.

So my advice to all our Turkish brothers.......... Stay calm stay very very calm coz if u go to war then u are one suffering from it. Just have look at American , the so called most powerful country in the world bought to knees by WAR.

so avoid it if u want ur country to be in a good shape............
 
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@ Deno I value every life regardless of their Nationality & i do admire Turks for obvious reasons. You addressed my point well , but the way i look at it is that war between Turkey and Syria is becoming unavoidable so is Turkey's alliance with GCC. That is what historically has worked for Turkey if they think twice before looking at the blurred EU mirror.
 
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@ Deno I value every life regardless of their Nationality & i do admire Turks for obvious reasons. You addressed my point well , but the way i look at it is that war between Turkey and Syria is becoming unavoidable so is Turkey's alliance with GCC. That is what historically has worked for Turkey if they think twice before looking at the blurred EU mirror.

Don't get me wrong. Although I think myself as a nationalist person as a human I value the sanctity of life of every human equally. I said Turkish goverment should because it is the only reason they are elected. Rasing the prosperity of Turkish citizens and provide security for Turkish citizens and everything else comes second. What I do and think as an individual and what I think should be the Turkish goverments first priority is different things.

I personally look positively towards an allience with GCC and think it as a must for Turkish foreign policy as long as that allience won't requires us to waste Turkish citizens lifes for needless wars. Turkey and GCC can become a hegimone in the region if they can unite their strenght and even kick US and Russia from Middle East in the future although that is unlikely in near future.
 
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I am not in favour of a full scale invation; however the first response should have been an air strike to these air systems. Turkey then should of said 50:50. Well atleast that's what isreal would have done.

By this, AKP goverment would have proved it's seriousness and it's grip to power.
There is no way In between. Either Table talk or you do war.
You can't attempt Half war. It means you are leaving your country vulnerable or allowing enemy to take revenge at particular time.
Table talk should be first option. There is no substitute of Peaceful talks until your enemy do Misadventure. (Deliberately)
 
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Although my heart says "scrambling syrian helicopters is not enough, just let them cross the border and shoot them to hell", my mind says "our army did the right thing by not letting us drug into a war with a falling dictator who wants all the region burn just like his country."
 
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Don't get me wrong. Although I think myself as a nationalist person as a human I value the sanctity of life of every human equally. I said Turkish goverment should because it is the only reason they are elected. Rasing the prosperity of Turkish citizens and provide security for Turkish citizens and everything else comes second. What I do and think as an individual and what I think should be the Turkish goverments first priority is different things.

I personally look positively towards an allience with GCC and think it as a must for Turkish foreign policy as long as that allience won't requires us to waste Turkish citizens lifes for needless wars. Turkey and GCC can become a hegimone in the region if they can unite their strenght and even kick US and Russia from Middle East in the future although that is unlikely in near future.

Deno, why so passive-agressive towards AKP? Although, I TOTALLY agree with you regarding their misguided policy of sprinkling religion in all walks of life. I personally think that they should've maintained the 'secular' status-quo which has helped you achieve where you're today.

However, on the economic and development front, I personally feel and have seen that they have accomplished much more than any of your previous leaders, such as .........Ciller, Yilmaz, etc etc etc. This is not from some history books, I have travelled extensively all through-out Turkey alone in 90's and before that with my parents in the 80's. I have experienced your development first hand, seen coup d'état's, various other crisis such as sugar, wheat, massive electricity blackouts in the late 80's to mind-boggling inflation and lines for breads in the 90's. I think past 10-12 years have been the best in your history. Correct me if I'm wrong?

Why I say all this is, because, every other post I read from you, somehow tries to implicate Edrogan and AKP in a latent way, of what all that ails Turkey today. My apologies if I'm wrong somewhere...

Trust me, I despise the way they are trying to resurrect the religious virus and introduce it back to the population of Turkey, and additionally beats the hell out of me why they're trying to goto bed with those snakes in the GCC! Maybe, purely commercial interests? If yes, then why not?

Note: BTW, I love Turkey as much as anyone of you and almost as equal to my love for Pakistan. Additionally, although I try not to use my 'secme hakki,' but definitely do try to keep myself up to date with Turkish socio-economic indicators.
 
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