‘Turkey’s Syria stance aggravates plight of Iran’s Turks’

[Shahin Vatani]

Don't waste your time bro, he even said that Turkmens are Persians. Pathetic isn't it?

Wow, you are unbelievably stupid. I hope for the sake of Turkey's future that their leaders aren't as dumb as you. I didn't once use the term Persian, only Iran. Your mum must have dropped your head on the ground many times.

We are giving history lesson about Iran to Iranians.

Challenge is what i like.

You aren't giving history lesson to anybody. Once a savage always a savage. Can't reason or comprehend. So just goes back to Pan-Turkist propaganda.

That Safiaddin Ardabili was a "Kurdo-Persian" is a recent myth, that supposedly a Kurd had moved to Ardabil, yeah right... The only referance we have about his ethnicity points towards a Turkic origin, as hes been referred to as "Turkic saint" in some historical sources. Or "Ey Tork-e Pir".

Shah Ismail was a descendet of Uzun Hasan, the leader of Agh-Qoyunlu. His mother was daughter of Uzun Hasan.

Shah Ismail was also a great poet of Azerbaijani literature. His works in Azerbaijani Turkic was written under the pen name of "Khatai", that's why we know him as Shah Ismail Khatai, I suppose something Persians don't.

And whatever the argument, does not change the fact that Safavids was a Turkic dynasty with Turkic background.

Oh it's a recent myth huh? Who told you that, your pedophile looking leader Aliyev? Once again you dumb as bricks Pan-Turks bring the issue that they spoke Turkish into the mix. That doesn't matter. In Iran no one puts Persian or Gilaki or Tork or whatever above being Iranian.

You don't believe me? Go ask the thousands of Azari military leaders in Iran about this. I am sure they would be more then happy to stick a rocket up your anus.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

i would like to contribute with this map, because it is important to explain the most important point ,which is the language that explaing all without giving many lectures to persians.

Regards.

I object. Language is not thing that decides ethnicity.

Language is not the matter. An albanian, a Kurd, a Boshniak or a circassian also speak Turkish in Turkey, but they are not Historically Turk.

Hazaras for eexample are Mongols, but speak Dari. They are not Persian, but Mongol.

 

[kollang]

Loool that is actually an english proverb mate. I knew something had to be fishy, Arabs having their own proverbs!!! Next you will be telling me you also have civilisation. Its actually under 10 million sunnis and they do not want to separate. I wouldn't expect you to understand as you probably know nothing about Iran (with your random 20 million sunni guess lol). More than half kurds in Iran are shia, Kermanshahi etc.

Also anyone that knows anything about Iran knows this: Iran is not held together by ethnicity or religion. But by Iranian culture which is all encompassing and is shared by all members of our great country.

i would like to contribute with this map, because it is important to explain the most important point ,which is the language that explaing all without giving many lectures to persians.

Regards.

i have also a lovely map shows Iranian tribes(armanis,kurds,azeris,gorgis,...)
i think this map can also say manything to you guys

 

[Shahin Vatani]

i have also a lovely map shows Iranian tribes(armanis,kurds,azeris,gorgis,...)
i think this map can also say manything to you guys

You should also show the otherside of the map, where All of Istanbul returns to the mighty Greeks. I hope we can make alliance with Greeks, they need our help in reclaiming their lost territory.

 

[ASQ-1918]

Once again you dumb as bricks Pan-Turks bring the issue that they spoke Turkish into the mix.

Sorry, and what else do you need to determine their background? Azeri language in this case are all you need, as it was never a language spoken by other peoples, unlike Persian which was used by all Muslim peoples.

I can understand what Shah Ismail wrote, you don't. That in fact means Shah Ismail did not gave a schyte about Persians to start with, if he wrote almost all of his works in Azeri langauge.

 

[drink_milk]

I object. Language is not thing that decides ethnicity.

Language is not the matter. An albanian, a Kurd, a Boshniak or a circassian also speak Turkish in Turkey, but they are not Historically Turk.

Hazaras for eexample are Mongols, but speak Dari. They are not Persian, but Mongol.

...here we go, why making it so hard?


...any way, first of all i did post it to end the discussion, because the map dates thousand of years ago, which gives us very important clue about who is who.

... your example is like saying indians in usa are not english but speak english, however, you are missing one important point, which is that their mother tounge is different and still live; because they are indians not english. Can you now understand what kind of irony you make in your mentality?

Regards.

 

[kollang]

Loool that is actually an english proverb mate. I knew something had to be fishy, Arabs having their own proverbs!!! Next you will be telling me you also have civilisation. Its actually under 10 million sunnis and they do not want to separate. I wouldn't expect you to understand as you probably know nothing about Iran (with your random 20 million sunni guess lol). More than half kurds in Iran are shia, Kermanshahi etc.

Also anyone that knows anything about Iran knows this: Iran is not held together by ethnicity or religion. But by Iranian culture which is all encompassing and is shared by all members of our great country.

You should also show the otherside of the map, where All of Istanbul returns to the mighty Greeks. I hope we can make alliance with Greeks, they need our help in reclaiming their lost territory.

not just istanbul.greeks also own antalya and all Cyprus.

azeris are Iranian not turkish...


Azeris have always been Iranian genetically and culturally. If I were you, I wouldn't listen to a thing Orinoco says. He is impersonating us Azeris. He is a brain washed-Turkish extremist in reallity.

I personally don't like being called a Turk because I know the history of Azerbaijan. You see, the Turks arrived in the Middle East in the Middle Ages, but Iranian peoples such as Scythians, Medes, and Persians had been living in Azerbaijan for more than 4000 years! The Turks were living in East Asia and Siberia 4000 years ago.
When the Turks conquered Azerbaijan during the Medieval era, they forced their language upon the Azeris. Iran managed to retake Azerbaijan, but it was already too late. Many Azeris were already speaking Turkish. However, if you look at Azeris today they look more like Iranians than Turkic peoples. Pockets of Iranian speakers still survive in Azerbaijan. They mostly speak Tat or Farsi.
personally think there's nothing wrong with applying both terms Azeri and turk. Turk is a more general term because they speak turkish language. Azeri is more specific indicating they're from azerbaijan.

It's true Azerbaijan region in history has been predominantly occupied by Iranian people and culture until it was gradually turkified by the waves of turkish tribes. Yet it seems the turkification happened mostly only in the case of language. In other words as much as original azeris were turkified, the turk tribes were iranified as well. A quick comparison of the looks and lifestyle of Azeris and turk tribes of central asia will show this clearly.

However this debate is also politicized. The policy of Repulic of azerbaijan in light of it's struggle for independence from Russia , the war with Armenia and karabakh issue entials it to promote a version of history that helps it best to reinforce a sense of national identity and integrity in whose consequence the Azeris come out as an independant nation in all aspects. That's why they ignore, deny, or understate the cultural and historical ties and roots of Azerbaijan with Iran.

Pan-turks also find it necessary to twist the facts and fake history in order to provoke separatist movements in countries like Iran. So they hate the word Azeri, because they find it threatening to that aim. They try to imply there's no cultural or racial ties whatsoever between Azeris and the rest of Iran.

In fact there are indeed many Persian loanwords in Tukish language, and specially in Azerbaijani dialect, not because of education deprivation but because of vecinity with persian culture. How can there be no influence when the most prominent literary figures of Azerbaijan were persian poets. (e.g Nezami)

The pank-turk propaganda usually gives this joke of Persian being 33rd dialect of Arabic while turkish being the second most important language in the world. While in fact Turkish language itself has many loan words from other languages , mostly Arabic, Persian and french, so if Persian is 33rd dialect of arabic ,turkish should be atleast 32nd.

The genetic testings also prove Azerbaijan region was turkified only by language not by race. Iranian Azeris are more similar to the rest of Iranians genetically than to other turkic people. While Azeris of Azerbaijan Republic are closer to Armenians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_t…

One of the most important cultural customs of Iran that is celebrted by all Azeris as well is Nowruz celebration.

On a whole the answer depends on your point of view and whether you're a realistic and open minded person or a brainwashed panturk.

=--=--=
In fact "Nowruz" is only celebrated in countries that were once part of the greater Iran and Iranic people. And not many countres in the world celebrate even the beginning of spring. Most christian countries certainly don't. Even in Turkey it's not celebrated by most turks. Only kurds of turkey celebrate it. (so it's not a turkic celebration!)

And nowruz is a particular custom with it's unique defining elements and the meanings behind them like Haft Sin.

In Azerbaijan Nowruz is called Novruz bayrami. The name itself should clearly indicate where it's come from. And many of the Iranian traditions are still observed there like Haft sin, Charshanbe suri and jumping over the fire, making Samanu etc

 

[Shahin Vatani]

Sorry, and what else do you need to determine their background? Azeri language in this case are all you need, as it was never a language spoken by other peoples, unlike Persian which was used by all Muslim peoples.

I can understand what Shah Ismail wrote, you don't. That in fact means Shah Ismail did not gave a schyte about Persians to start with, if he wrote almost all of his works in Azeri langauge.

A Punjabi from Pakistan can also understand what a Punjabi from India wrote. While a person from Mumbai would be unable to. Does that mean that Indian Punjab should go to Pakistan? Once again you come up with the stupidest logic I have ever heard.

I just hope you don't stress your mind too hard trying to come up with answers to my logic. Your puny brain may malfunction.

 

[drink_milk]

i have also a lovely map shows Iranian tribes(armanis,kurds,azeris,gorgis,...)
i think this map can also say manything to you guys

i am posting very important document which will end the discussion right away; however, you answer me with a painting without explaining the meaning of my post, i think you start to understand my point, so started to that , again.

Regards.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

You aren't giving history lesson to anybody. Once a savage always a savage. Can't reason or comprehend. So just goes back to Pan-Turkist propaganda.

1) why do you have Sattar Khan in your avatar? You should put Cyrus the Great in your avatar.

2) Pan Turkism can be achieved, but its form should discussed. I personally think Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan Kazakstan could form a Trade Union. As for Turkey and Azerbaijan, they can create another union.

3) Turks were not savages, they were nomadic pastoralists. When your foes get killed, the conquerors takes the possesions of their fallen foes. Women, children, horses, golds etc... That's not savage, that was the rule.

Persians wrote history between 1000 BC to 320's BC by conquering the most of the known world. Kserkses and Darius, they were the ones who tried to conquer Scythia nad Greece. Savages!!!!

And Turks wrote history between 1000 A.D. to 1600's AD. No, we were not savages. Horse archers equipped with fine composite bows were the greatest warriors of middle ages. I am proud of it.

 

[kollang]

isnt it better returning to your real land,mongolia??
turkish people belongs to that area.
داداش همين طوري بريم جلو

 

[Shahin Vatani]

1) why do you have Sattar Khan in your avatar? You should put Cyrus the Great in your avatar.

2) Pan Turkism can be achieved, but its form should discussed. I personally think Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan Kazakstan could form a Trade Union. As for Turkey and Azerbaijan, they can create another union.

3) Turks were not savages, they were nomadic pastoralists. When your foes get killed, the conquerors takes the possesions of their fallen foes. Women, children, horses, golds etc... That's not savage, that was the rule.

Persians wrote history between 1000 BC to 320's BC by conquering the most of the known world. Kserkses and Darius, they were the ones who tried to conquer Scythia nad Greece. Savages!!!!

And Turks wrote history between 1000 A.D. to 1600's AD. No, we were not savages. Horse archers equipped with fine composite bows were the greatest warriors of middle ages. I am proud of it.

Because Sattar Khan is an Iranian hero. You got a problem with that? I suggest you go tell your Auntie.

Iranians conquered lands but where always civilized, freeing Jews of Babylonia, not forcing language or religion onto people and so on. More then I can say for Barbaric Mongoloid Turks like Teymour or Changiz.

 

[drink_milk]

at least we know who we are, not try to steal others' fathers to have decent ancestors to call them ''daddy'', , he ?

ps. sorry to all other members for this post.

 

[ASQ-1918]

Sorry, a Persian pretends to to be an Azeri Turk, and writes that above and it's a supposed to be a "fact for you"?

This one was my favorite;

"Iran managed to retake Azerbaijan, but it was already too late. Many Azeris were already speaking Turkish."

How was this the case when until 1925 Iran was ruled by Azerbaijani Turkic dynasties? Basically Iran was ruled by Turkic dynasties untill less than a century ago, so how did that story above took place?

I don't understand why you repeat all the time that Azeri Turks supposedly look like Persians...This you guys have repeated for maybe over thousand times...

Persians, Iranians are generally darker, as one of the examples. Persians in general has a very different form of "face", so don't understand where you get it from. Or Kurds for instance. One can easily distinguish between a Kurd, and an Azeri Turk.

In terms of appereance, the most close to Azerbaijan are Turks of Central Anatolia.

 

[Shahin Vatani]

not just istanbul.greeks also own antalya and all Cyprus.

azeris are Iranian not turkish...


Azeris have always been Iranian genetically and culturally. If I were you, I wouldn't listen to a thing Orinoco says. He is impersonating us Azeris. He is a brain washed-Turkish extremist in reallity.

I personally don't like being called a Turk because I know the history of Azerbaijan. You see, the Turks arrived in the Middle East in the Middle Ages, but Iranian peoples such as Scythians, Medes, and Persians had been living in Azerbaijan for more than 4000 years! The Turks were living in East Asia and Siberia 4000 years ago.
When the Turks conquered Azerbaijan during the Medieval era, they forced their language upon the Azeris. Iran managed to retake Azerbaijan, but it was already too late. Many Azeris were already speaking Turkish. However, if you look at Azeris today they look more like Iranians than Turkic peoples. Pockets of Iranian speakers still survive in Azerbaijan. They mostly speak Tat or Farsi.
personally think there's nothing wrong with applying both terms Azeri and turk. Turk is a more general term because they speak turkish language. Azeri is more specific indicating they're from azerbaijan.

It's true Azerbaijan region in history has been predominantly occupied by Iranian people and culture until it was gradually turkified by the waves of turkish tribes. Yet it seems the turkification happened mostly only in the case of language. In other words as much as original azeris were turkified, the turk tribes were iranified as well. A quick comparison of the looks and lifestyle of Azeris and turk tribes of central asia will show this clearly.

However this debate is also politicized. The policy of Repulic of azerbaijan in light of it's struggle for independence from Russia , the war with Armenia and karabakh issue entials it to promote a version of history that helps it best to reinforce a sense of national identity and integrity in whose consequence the Azeris come out as an independant nation in all aspects. That's why they ignore, deny, or understate the cultural and historical ties and roots of Azerbaijan with Iran.

Pan-turks also find it necessary to twist the facts and fake history in order to provoke separatist movements in countries like Iran. So they hate the word Azeri, because they find it threatening to that aim. They try to imply there's no cultural or racial ties whatsoever between Azeris and the rest of Iran.

In fact there are indeed many Persian loanwords in Tukish language, and specially in Azerbaijani dialect, not because of education deprivation but because of vecinity with persian culture. How can there be no influence when the most prominent literary figures of Azerbaijan were persian poets. (e.g Nezami)

The pank-turk propaganda usually gives this joke of Persian being 33rd dialect of Arabic while turkish being the second most important language in the world. While in fact Turkish language itself has many loan words from other languages , mostly Arabic, Persian and french, so if Persian is 33rd dialect of arabic ,turkish should be atleast 32nd.

The genetic testings also prove Azerbaijan region was turkified only by language not by race. Iranian Azeris are more similar to the rest of Iranians genetically than to other turkic people. While Azeris of Azerbaijan Republic are closer to Armenians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_t…

One of the most important cultural customs of Iran that is celebrted by all Azeris as well is Nowruz celebration.

On a whole the answer depends on your point of view and whether you're a realistic and open minded person or a brainwashed panturk.

=--=--=
In fact "Nowruz" is only celebrated in countries that were once part of the greater Iran and Iranic people. And not many countres in the world celebrate even the beginning of spring. Most christian countries certainly don't. Even in Turkey it's not celebrated by most turks. Only kurds of turkey celebrate it. (so it's not a turkic celebration!)

And nowruz is a particular custom with it's unique defining elements and the meanings behind them like Haft Sin.

In Azerbaijan Nowruz is called Novruz bayrami. The name itself should clearly indicate where it's come from. And many of the Iranian traditions are still observed there like Haft sin, Charshanbe suri and jumping over the fire, making Samanu etc

I know, you are right with all of this stuff. But there was a language shift that turned Azar Abadegan into Turkish speaking land. So if they want to call themselves Turks, I have no problem with that.