Turkey retires 40 Generals & Admirals accused of plotting coup

[Evil Flare]

great Decision ..

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Right now when we look at things you are the one supporting the military so who is a more democratic person is obvious. I don't have hatred against kemalism or secularism, but i do indeed dislike the former kemalists and secularists who dumped our country and turned it into a garbage. As a Muslim i do indeed put my religion before the constitution, but that doesn't mean i don't respect the constitution (double negative makes one positive, for those who have hard time comprehending it), if i didn't i wouldn't study now i would instead probably end in prison for not following Denmark's constitution.

Also i have never said anything regarding islam and democracy cannot work. To your surprise i support democracy because it is in fact the current best system, since the majority decides their rulers. Lastly the true hateful people are those who cannot tolerate a democratically elected party and want to overthrow it since according to them they go against secular "principles". The military is obedient to its people not the other way around. It seems you don't have the simplest clue about what democracy entails.

 

[explorer9]

Political hold is increasing on military affairs by Erdogan- Gul duo. Lot more needs to be done to further institutionalize YAS where out of 13 members 11 are from armed forces and only two PM & Def. min are Civilians. It is better to dismantle YAS and Put armed forces directly under defense ministry like India.

@ Zulkarneyn , What is view on completely dismantling YAS as it is a coup era institution ?

 

[Zulkarneyn]

YAS also called Supreme Military Council should be dismantled since it is an undemocratic institution that exists in only autharitarion countries: Ghana, Nigeria, Egypt.
I hope they will dismantle it with the new constitution that is being worked on right now.

 

[what]

Right now when we look at things you are the one supporting the military so who is a more democratic person is obvious. I don't have hatred against kemalism or secularism, but i do indeed dislike the former kemalists and secularists who dumped our country and turned it into a garbage. As a Muslim i do indeed put my religion before the constitution, but that doesn't mean i don't respect the constitution (double negative makes one positive, for those who have hard time comprehending it), if i didn't i wouldn't study now i would instead probably end in prison for not following Denmark's constitution.

Also i have never said anything regarding islam and democracy cannot work. To your surprise i support democracy because it is in fact the current best system, since the majority decides their rulers. Lastly the true hateful people are those who cannot tolerate a democratically elected party and want to overthrow it since according to them they go against secular "principles". The military is obedient to its people not the other way around. It seems you don't have the simplest clue about what democracy entails.

I said that Islam and democracy don't work. I did.
I'm not a military fanboy, infact I would rather pay a few thousands instead of doing my military service. But our military is the safety officer of our democracy, cleaning the system from people that put the constitution before religion is just the first step with aim of theocracy.

Now lets put all that aside. But why, democracy loving Zulk, don't you answer one of my other posts instead of reacting to the provoking one? What is it that Erdogan has done in terms of democracy (for now we exclude the Ergenekon/generals in jail-thingy, because thats apparently pro-democracy for you), tell me what? Don't bail, just answer the question.

Question to all out there: Do we have a better democracy now after a decade of AKP?

 

[explorer9]

I said that Islam and democracy don't work. I did.
I'm not a military fanboy, infact I would rather pay a few thousands instead of doing my military service. But our military is the safety officer of our democracy, cleaning the system from people that put the constitution before religion is just the first step with aim of theocracy.

Now lets put all that aside. But why, democracy loving Zulk, don't you answer one of my other posts instead of reacting to the provoking one? What is it that Erdogan has done in terms of democracy (for now we exclude the Ergenekon/generals in jail-thingy, because thats apparently pro-democracy for you), tell me what? Don't bail, just answer the question.

Question to all out there: Do we have a better democracy now after a decade of AKP?

A criminal is a criminal whether it is Military god or a simple civilian. Malaysia, Indonesia, Turkey, Nigeria, Senegal etc, are predominantly Muslim countries and doing well under democratic Governments. The whole Arab spring (whether it is real awakening or plotted) is actually shows Ernest desire of people for democracy, transparency and rule of law.

western powers did not allow democracy to flourish in so called Muslim world by promoting and supporting the dictators and despots. You can your self anlayze the situation from Algeria ( supporting military to cancel the election results) to Iran ( dismantling Mossadegh Government).

 

[what]

I could now start and tell you about all the bad stuff that's happening in Nigeria or SE Asia or how the Arab spring will lead to less freedom for their own people but that would completely derail this thread.

Erdogan is acting more in the interest of the west than many like to acknowledge, I cant believe how people can claim that our previous governments acted in the interest of the west (including the west), when Erdogan is doing exactly the same.


My questions still stands: Did the AKP improve our democracy, yes/no?

 

[Killuminati]

You guys are really something. You talk about democracy and support a military who time and again tried to overthrow a democratically elected government. Sorry folks but we aint in the 60'ies any more.

Balyoz'da bir rapor daha 'deliller sahte' dedi

Balyoz davasında alınan bir bilirkişi raporu daha delillerin tutarsızlığına dikkat çekti. Almanya da hazırladığı raporda, 2003 yılına ait olduğu gösterilen word dosyalarının 2007 öncesine ait olmasının mümkün olmadığını vurguladı.

250 emekli ve muvazzaf subayın tutuklu olarak yargılandığı Balyoz Davasında bir bilirkişi raporu daha dijital delillerin sahteliğine dikkat çekti. Almanya'da Berlin Mahkemelerine Adli Bilişim alanında bilirkişilik hizmeti veren Gramberg & Vogel Bilişim Bürosu yapılan incelemeleri raporlaştırdı.

Raporu hazırlayan Bilgisayar Yüksek Mühendisi Bernhard Gramberg yaptığı tespitte şu ifadelere yer verdi:

"2003 yılında Calibri yazı tipi içeren Word dosyaları mümkün değil"

"Calibri yazı tipi 2004 yılında hazırlanmış ve 2005 yılında kamuya açıklanmıştır. Ancak Vista programıyla birlikte (2006 sonu) işbu yazı tipi yaygınlaşmıştır. Word/ Office 2007'de Calibri Word dosyalarında kullanılmaktadır. Aktarılmış olan CD'lerde/ Samsung sabit diskinde en azından 67 dosyada Calibri yazı tipi yer almaktadır, hâlbuki dosyalar 2003 (veya daha erken) bir döneme aittir. Calibri yazı tipi 2003 yılından çok daha sonra (yaklaşık 2006/2007 yılından itibaren) kullanılmaya başladığı için, Calibri yazı tipini içermekte olan Word dosyaları da 2003 tarihinden çok daha sonra işlenmiş olmaktadır. 2003 yılında Calibri yazı tipi içeren Word dosyalarının bulunmuş olması mümkün değildir."

Özetle, Gramberg & Vogel Bilişim Bürosu tarafından yapılan inceleme neticesinde elde edilen bulgularda, 11,16 ve 17 Nolu CD'ler ile Gölcük Donanma Komutanlığı'nda el konulan 5 Nolu Hard Disk içinde kayıtlı dijitallerin 2003 yılına ait olamayacağı belirtildi.

Avukat Ersöz: "Adil bir yargılama inancını kaybettik"
Bilimsel gerçeklere karşın 250 kişinin halen tutuklu tutulması, adil bir yargılama yapıldığına olan inancı ortadan kaldırdığını ifade eden davanın avukatlarından Hüseyin Ersöz, "Başbakan'ın dahi "Devlet içinde devlet oldular" diyerek eleştirdiği eski adıyla Özel Yetkili yeni adıyla Geçici Yetkili Mahkemeler temel hak ve özgürlükleri ortada kaldırarak varlığını sürdürmeye devam etmektedir. Bu şekilde devam eden ve Savunma Hakkı'nı tamamiyle ortadan kaldıran İstanbul 10. Ağır Ceza Mahkemesi'nin adil bir karar vereceğine ilişkin tüm inancımızı kaybetmiş bulunmaktayız" dedi.

Türkiye ve ABD'den alınan raporlar da delillerin sahteliğine dikkat çekti
Delillerin tamamının dijital kayıtlardan ibaret olduğu davada Türkiye ve ABD'den alınmış olan raporlarda da delillerin manipülatif bir niteliğe sahip bulunduğu tespit edilmişti.

Bogaziçi Üniversitesi, Yıldız Teknik Üniversitesi, Ortadoğu Teknik Üniversitesi, İstanbul Teknik Üniversitesi ve Arsenal Consulting Inc Adli Bilişim Şirketinin yapmış olduğu incelemeler neticesinde, TÜBİTAK tarafından "2003 yılında oluşturulduğu ve sonrasında hiçbir değişiklik yapılmadığı" belirtilen dijital dokümanların 2007 yılına ait bir teknolojiyi içinde barındırdırdığı tespiti yapılmıştı.

Raporun tam metni:

http://www.odatv.com/images/almanya_balyoz_bilirkisi_raporu_01_08_2012.pdf

 

[KS]

On the contarary , removing military scum who believe they should run the country as they think best, rather than an elected goverment by the people to express the views of the people. Dictators deserve the bullet.

I think you should start with Pakistan first.

But in case of Pakistan it would be Pak fauj zindabad.

 

[Saleem]

@ KS you should start with india first ---indian army and SOG terrorists in indian occupied kashmir, assam, southern tibet etc.......

 

[explorer9]

I could now start and tell you about all the bad stuff that's happening in Nigeria or SE Asia or how the Arab spring will lead to less freedom for their own people but that would completely derail this thread.

Erdogan is acting more in the interest of the west than many like to acknowledge, I cant believe how people can claim that our previous governments acted in the interest of the west (including the west), when Erdogan is doing exactly the same.


My questions still stands: Did the AKP improve our democracy, yes/no?

You can give 100 examples from Nigeria to SE Asia & i can give you 100 examples from eastern, western, Balkan Europe and from North & South America. And can discuss in length the so called Arab spring too. And you rightly said that we should stick on the subject and should not derail.

Now coming to the point of Erdogan & AKP and democracy. In my neutral view and observation of Turkish affairs i would say, yes they improved democratic standard of Turkish Republic ( you can ask this question on the grave of Adnan Menderes if you like). The other question that arises with the definition of democracy, may be you are inspired by the modern definition of western democracy of easy sexuality and low morality.

 

[TurAr]

You can give 100 examples from Nigeria to SE Asia & i can give you 100 examples from eastern, western, Balkan Europe and from North & South America. And can discuss in length the so called Arab spring too. And you rightly said that we should stick on the subject and should not derail.

Now coming to the point of Erdogan & AKP and democracy. In my neutral view and observation of Turkish affairs i would say, yes they improved democratic standard of Turkish Republic ( you can ask this question on the grave of Adnan Menderes if you like). The other question that arises with the definition of democracy, may be you are inspired by the modern definition of western democracy of easy sexuality and low morality.

Well, i don't know from where he inspired but it is clear as day that you inspired by the backward definition of "democracy" of easy intervention of people's lifes and dictating beliefs on others. Or you may not be as good observer as you think... Because saying AKP improved democratic standarts of Turkey...

Wth is easy sexuality? Is it something about not regulating what womans wear? Or allowing people to spend their time with their loved ones?
And low morality? Because seeing womans as sex objects is morality at its best?

Each day, we're wittnessing anti-democratic applications of the state, and it is really not making sense for me to read an Indian talking about how great the democracy in Turkey is...

RIGHTS - Radio host rapped by RTÜK for criticizing officer
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/ak...video.aspx?pageID=238&nID=26485&NewsCatID=341
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/co...moted.aspx?pageID=238&nID=26722&NewsCatID=341

Or Do you think Turkish people are so morally right because we're not as free as western democracies? Like we're not reading disgusting news almost each day on the papers... And the funny thing is, the source of those news are usually being more conservative cities in Turkey.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Well, i don't know from where he inspired but it is clear as day that you inspired by the backward definition of "democracy" of easy intervention of people's lifes and dictating beliefs on others. Or you may not be as good observer as you think... Because saying AKP improved democratic standarts of Turkey...

Wth is easy sexuality? Is it something about not regulating what womans wear? Or allowing people to spend their time with their loved ones?
And low morality? Because seeing womans as sex objects is morality at its best?

Each day, we're wittnessing anti-democratic applications of the state, and it is really not making sense for me to read an Indian talking about how great the democracy in Turkey is...

RIGHTS - Radio host rapped by RTÜK for criticizing officer
LOCAL - AKP MP
LOCAL - Controversial police chief gets promoted

Or Do you think Turkish people are so morally right because we're not as free as western democracies? Like we're not reading disgusting news almost each day on the papers... And the funny thing is, the source of those news are usually being more conservative cities in Turkey.

Those instances you talk about, happened much more often during other offices. You have found a son of one AKP mp and then make it your case. We have seen much worse abuses. But there is no point in bringing them here. The overall indicators are better than what it was during the past.

 

[get straight]

As always muslims doing what they do best removing any obstacle to turn the society they live in into islamic state (AKA shithole)

hardliner liberal fascist

 

[TurAr]

Those instances you talk about, happened much more often during other offices. You have found a son of one AKP mp and then make it your case. We have seen much worse abuses. But there is no point in bringing them here. The overall indicators are better than what it was during the past.

That's right we've seen much worse abuses, but my point by bringing those news was to strengthen my arguement : "Each day (i mean literally), we're wittnessing anti-democratic applications of the state."

Nevertheless, anti-democratic laws/applications of the past are not going to make AKP more democratic....