Turkey Could Evaluate Russian Su-57 Aircraft If US Blocks F-35 Sale

[Kamil_baku]

Who mentioned anything about radar? you’re quoting the wrong person. I talked about radars, jamming and so on extensively in the past. I’m not in any mood to debate these subjects with people that don’t know what they are talking about.

nevermind...

 

[dani191]

The thing about f35 is it can send BVR missiles first and will have advantage on that, but if it will have another stealth aircraft, they both will need to fight close to each other and run away from missiles with their maneuver, which f35 lacks... i think, until 2030, f35 is fine..

Turkey purchase f35 to build its own stealth jet which US is afraid of.. But, Turkey might get experince through UK too.. Thats why its complicated..

usa doing every thing it can to prevent contest against her

 

[Tshering22]

On History channel the team of F35 engineers said, once a plane is made it takes around 10 or less years to meet the required demands.

U.S. Senate defense bill would bar Turkey from buying F-35 jets

Patricia Zengerle
3 Min Read

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. Senate committee passed its version of a $716 billion defense policy bill on Thursday, including a measure to prevent Turkey from purchasing Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter jets.

Most likely Turkey will dump F-35 and later, NATO. Turkey is one of the prime members of the JSF programme and it is extremely cheap that LM is showing them the door.

 

[LeGenD]

Every aircraft can be seen on radar depending on range and frequency, even if we assume the T-50 has much worse RCS then the F-35, it can launch its weapons from 300kms away, thus it will be well out of harms way and still be undetected. It’s long range also insured that it doesn’t need to rely on vulnerable and costly refuelers that will give away its possition.

It can also super cruise with cruise missiles. You will never admit it but the pak-fa has major advantages over the F-35.


In specular radar simulations the SU-57 has lower RCS then the F-35 in some aspects. The point is this, the RCS is good enough for Russia, unlike aircraft like the F-35 Russia relies on very long range standoff weapons which is in itself ‘stealth’ because it allows the aircraft to be far away to stay undetected but if you think “stealth” means invisible then you are wrong, they can all be detected at certain frequencies and ranges. Flight profits also is important, certain parts of an aircraft will be more easily ‘eliminated’ by radars, thus even stealth aircraft fly around radar and choose the most optimal vector in order to avoid being detected.

View attachment 477448 View attachment 477449

Which air-to-air missile has 300 KM range?

The missile you are talking about is an air-to-surface cruise missile.

Source: https://sputniknews.com/military/201805281064883829-su-57-launch-ovod-missile/

F-35 can do the same! FYI:-

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/digital...andoff-weapon-integrated-into-the-navys-f-35/

And in case you didn't knew, F-35 have demonstrated the capability to intercept cruise missiles in a network-centric testing environment.

Source: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...se-missile-defend-ship-during-important-17707

Regarding RCS: true RCS of F-35 is not public knowledge (figures floating on the web are fake). According to insiders, F-35 is in the league of F-22 in the matters of stealth.

SU-57 is semi-stealth; it is not 5th generation per Western standards.

Indians are difficult customers! Yes! But they abandoned SU-57 for legitimate reasons: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...tched-its-stealth-fighter-program-with-russia

 

[500]

According to you the pak-fa can only drop dumb bombs too. The the only thing you’re capable of is trolling and being a fool.


India, has not been given access to the pak-fa including source codes. The IAF is full of bureaucracy and as usual complains about everything and gets nothing achieved, there is not a single aircraft that they have not complained about wether it be Rafale or Typoon or SU-30. According to sources the IAF is trying to scare Russia into bargaining for a better deal.


Every aircraft can be seen on radar depending on range and frequency, even if we assume the T-50 has much worse RCS then the F-35, it can launch its weapons from 300kms away, thus it will be well out of harms way and still be undetected. It’s long range also insured that it doesn’t need to rely on vulnerable and costly refuelers that will give away its possition.

It can also super cruise with cruise missiles. You will never admit it but the pak-fa has major advantages over the F-35.


In specular radar simulations the SU-57 has lower RCS then the F-35 in some aspects. The point is this, the RCS is good enough for Russia, unlike aircraft like the F-35 Russia relies on very long range standoff weapons which is in itself ‘stealth’ because it allows the aircraft to be far away to stay undetected but if you think “stealth” means invisible then you are wrong, they can all be detected at certain frequencies and ranges. Flight profits also is important, certain parts of an aircraft will be more easily ‘eliminated’ by radars, thus even stealth aircraft fly around radar and choose the most optimal vector in order to avoid being detected.

View attachment 477448 View attachment 477449

The funny part about the pak fa is that the IRST ball alone on it has RCS similar to entire F-35:

No wonder that India rejected it.

 

[T-123456]

The funny part about the pak fa is that the IRST ball alone on it has RCS similar to entire F-35:

No wonder that India rejected it.

"it can launch its weapons from 300kms away, thus it will be well out of harms way and still be undetected. It’s long range also insured that it doesn’t need to rely on vulnerable and costly refuelers that will give away its possition."

Doesnt he have a point?

 

[500]

"it can launch its weapons from 300kms away, thus it will be well out of harms way and still be undetected. It’s long range also insured that it doesn’t need to rely on vulnerable and costly refuelers that will give away its possition."

Doesnt he have a point?

In order to launch missiles from 300 km you don't need stealth. U need stealth penetrate enemy territory and drop cheap JDAM bombs, to suppress air defence, to shoot down enemy jets before they see u.

U can compare stealth to armor of a tank. If you build a tank with very 10 times stronger armor it will give you a huge advantage, crush other tanks, breach enemy fortifications. But u don't need any armor for tactical missile launcher with 300 km range.

 

[HAIDER]

Most likely Turkey will dump F-35 and later, NATO. Turkey is one of the prime members of the JSF programme and it is extremely cheap that LM is showing them the door.

US and EU are the major business partner of Turkey. They can't walkaway with free will. I see many Turkish products in my local store.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The funny part about the pak fa is that the IRST ball alone on it has RCS similar to entire F-35:

No wonder that India rejected it.

RCS is marketing gimmick. Prove to me radar can't see F-35.

In order to launch missiles from 300 km you don't need stealth. U need stealth penetrate enemy territory and drop cheap JDAM bombs, to suppress air defence, to shoot down enemy jets before they see u.

U can compare stealth to armor of a tank. If you build a tank with very 10 times stronger armor it will give you a huge advantage, crush other tanks, breach enemy fortifications. But u don't need any armor for tactical missile launcher with 300 km range.

Su-57 is armed with Kh-59M2 long range air launched cruise missiles. Range nearly 600 km. That can like strike anywhere in Syria without even flying a few km from Jableh air base.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/russian-su-57-fighter-launching-kh-59mk2-cruise-missile.560489/

 

[ptldM3]

Which air-to-air missile has 300 KM range?

The missile you are talking about is an air-to-surface cruise missile.

Source: https://sputniknews.com/military/201805281064883829-su-57-launch-ovod-missile/

F-35 can do the same! FYI:-

Source: https://www.defensenews.com/digital...andoff-weapon-integrated-into-the-navys-f-35/

That is what I said. As for the F-35 it uses glide bombs (only 2 I believe) with a tiny fraction of the range of the KH-59M2 and the F-35 still has limitations in range, it still has to have aerial refueling to achieve a similar range to the SU-57 (which will give away its possition and add to cost and mission complexity). Lack of supercruise also means it would either burn through already precious fuel and have even less range or just take longer to achieve missions which ultimately means it would need more sorties, which equates to more risk, more cost. F-35 fanboys just can admit to its flaws and limitations.

And in case you didn't knew, F-35 have demonstrated the capability to intercept cruise missiles in a network-centric testing environment.

Source: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...se-missile-defend-ship-during-important-17707

Yes good luck with that. It’s a novel idea that worked in controlled tests against US cruise missiles over the ocean but on land there is complex terrain where cruise missiles can mask their possitions. Heavy electronic jamming would also be a problem. I don’t think the F-35 would do as well going up against unknown Russian cruise missiles, with heavy jamming and a launch platform that is difficult to detect.

But it’s peculiar how you flip arguments, first you were boasting that cruise missiles are too difficult to shoot down now you are boasting the opposite. There is no way to fully stop a barrage of cruise missiles, especially if you don’t know where they are cominng from and the F-35 platform lacks in range both it’s weapons systems and overall its reach. It’s much easier to launch 200 cruise missile then to shoot them down.

Regarding RCS: true RCS of F-35 is not public knowledge (figures floating on the web are fake). According to insiders, F-35 is in the league of F-22 in the matters of stealth.

SU-57 is semi-stealth; it is not 5th generation per Western standards.

First you admit that no one knows the RCS of the F-22/F-35 then you make the claim that the SU-57s RCS is worse, funny Considering you know nothing about the aircraft. You have nothing good to say about anything Russian made but will argue until you’re blue in the face how great western weapons are.



Actual engineers have conducted physics optics simulations and in many respects the SU-57 has better RCS figures then the F-35.




The F-35 JSF exhibits similar, but in some respects more severe beam aspect specular RCS behaviour than the T-50.


http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2010-01.html



If the production T-50 retains the axisymmetric nozzles and extant ventral fuselage design, the aircraft would still deliver robust Very Low Observable performance in the nose aspect angular sector, providing that effective RCS treatments are applied to suppress surface travelling waves, inlet and edge reflections.



These simulated were conducted with old nozzles. New ‘stealth’ nozzles have since been introduced.

Result of test:

In order to launch missiles from 300 km you don't need stealth. U need stealth penetrate enemy territory and drop cheap JDAM bombs, to suppress air defence, to shoot down enemy jets before they see u.

“Stealth” is about survivability. That part went over you’re head apparently. As stated the SU-57 has similar or better RCS for figures compared to the F-35 in specular simulations but let’s assume the SU-57 has much worse RCS. Would it matter when it can launch cruise missiles from 300kms away and stay undetected?


Most aircraft radars struggle to detect aircraft size targets past 150-200kms. Meaning the SU-57 would be virtually invisible to the enemy where and the F-35 would be more vulnerable to being shot down simply because it would have to get much closer and rely more on aerial refueling which is a give away to your position.


Either way all aircraft can be detected on radar. It’s better to have longer standoff weapons.....period.

U can compare stealth to armor of a tank. If you build a tank with very 10 times stronger armor it will give you a huge advantage, crush other tanks, breach enemy fortifications. But u don't need any armor for tactical missile launcher with 300 km range.

Stop, just spare yourself further embarrassment and don’t post.

The funny part about the pak fa is that the IRST ball alone on it has RCS similar to entire F-35:

No wonder that India rejected it.

Because the F-35 is so faceted with no round surfaces

Wow a ball!

So stealthy with those lumps and bumps and protrusions.

 

[PurpleStone]

India dumped SU-57 and is going for F-35

Turkey seems to be going for SU-57 as US restricts F-35 to Turkey

India replacing Turkey for F-35 while Turkey replacing India for SU-57

 

[Oublious]

India dumped SU-57 and is going for F-35

Turkey seems to be going for SU-57 as US restricts F-35 to Turkey

India replacing Turkey for F-35 while Turkey replacing India for SU-57

Well you are buying s400...

 

[500]

“Stealth” is about survivability. That part went over you’re head apparently. As stated the SU-57 has similar or better RCS for figures compared to the F-35 in specular simulations but let’s assume the SU-57 has much worse RCS.

Its nowhere near. As I said the ball on pak fa nose alone equals to the entire F-35 RCS.

Would it matter when it can launch cruise missiles from 300kms away and stay undetected?

Then u dont need stealth at all.

Because the F-35 is so faceted with no round surfaces

Not of course.

Wow a ball!

View attachment 477552

Wow its covered with net:

RCS is marketing gimmick. Prove to me radar can't see F-35.

LOL kiddo. U dont' even understand the concept of RCS and radar. Learn a bit and dont ask silly questions next time.

 

[PurpleStone]

Well you are buying s400...

India would not be buying S-400. The news was released to manage the public opinion. If Modi cancels the S-400 deal like SU-57 then the public backlash would be huge. So to manage the public opinion, it was announced that India is planning to procure S-400 but later the project would be dropped with a excuse that cost of US sanctions would be much higher than the benefits of procuring S-400.

 

[Indian wonk]

India would not be buying S-400. The news was released to manage the public opinion. If Modi cancels the S-400 deal like SU-57 then the public backlash would be huge. So to manage the public opinion, it was announced that India is planning to procure S-400 but later the project would be dropped with a excuse that cost of US sanctions would be much higher than the benefits of procuring S-400.

Wrong , S-400 deal negotiations have concluded , the sticking point was price .

India and Russia complete negotiations for $5.92bn S-400 Triumf deal
https://www.airforce-technology.com...mplete-negotiations-5-92bn-s-400-triumf-deal/



As far as sanctions are concerned
Last week, the United States passed a defense policy bill, the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the 2019 fiscal year that provided the Trump administration with a “special rule” allowing it to waive some sanctions on American allies for acquiring Russian-made arms. The NDAA would give the Trump administration a chance to terminate some sanctions against Moscow imposed under Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA).

https://sputniknews.com/military/201805291064895091-us-s400-deal-india-russia/

India dumped SU-57 and is going for F-35

Again Wrong, IAF chief said India doesn't want F-35

We Are 'Not Interested' in US F-35 Fighters - Indian Air Force Chief

https://sputniknews.com/military/201804271063955713-india-not-interested-in-f35/