Turkey and France clash over Libya air campaign

[Developereo]

Since people are mentioning Erdogan's religion, it's worth mentioning that Sarkozy is half-Jewish. It is not a coincidence that he is so anti-Muslim.

As for the French law about religious symbols in schools, it is blatantly discriminatory since it bans the headscarf but allows small necklaces with a cross or star of David.

 

[luckyyy]

that colonizing mantality still exist among west countries which lead the world into WW2....

 

[Last Hope]

Nice. Only Turkey stood up for Libya.
When the whole West unites to kill muslims in Libya for name of revolution, but actually want oil like Iraq, no one dares stand against them and then call that we are muslims filled with love and care for each other and bla bla bla.

Where are they now?
Appriciatable work Turkey

 

[Jigs]

Wow... Is the little kemalist afraid to be kicked out of the club hmm... You got something on your nose Jigs, something brownish.

No see i don't cry about everything the modernized nations do so i can please the Muslim majority for political gain. Unlike Erdogan in Jeddah. Then getting angry at France for not caring to invite the crying "humanitarians" for Paris.

NATO has only legitimacy as long as it acts rational and with concensus, if you start wars over night and then ask NATO to follow up like a dog, what will happen to that legitimacy, it'll disappear and countries will be more prone to start wars on a whim. You could say that with the unrest in ME NATO should have been on alert and anticipated that it may have been necessary to act in countries like Libya, but they were not.

NATO has legitimacy because there is a common consensus among its member states and similar views as was the case when its formation happened. Sometimes there are disagreements. However there isn't one member that always runs the other way when decisions occur. Then tries to run back when left out. No one has time for the AKP hold up when people are being killed by a Gaddafi.

I don't find your attack on our country's President productive and your arguments for why he's "useless" just shows how frustrated you are. However you should look into his CV before throwing dirt. He's a lot more qualified that any of the people MHP and CHP can come up with.

What attack ? That he married his 15 year old Cousin when he was 30 ? That is not a insult. It is a fact. A mans morals and basic views on society tells far more then what university he went to.

Do you even know how much was plundered from Iraq, the national treasure, and the kurdish/iraqi minister who had stockpiled Saddams art somewhere, luckily he got caught before he could export the stuff. That is reality my friend, war is ugly, and armed rebellion WILL be very ugly for those who support and oppose Gaddafi.

Just like it was for us kemalists when we saved the country that was sold out. No one saying it isn't. Are you saying its ok to not help these people achieve freedom over a oppressive dictator ? Also comparing this to Iraq is inaccurate. The U.S. is already packing up and handing the operation over to NATO and no troop involvement is even proposed.

Tell me what guarentee do you have that everything will be peaceful once it's settled. Ex-military officers from Gaddafis army are among rebels, what guarentee do you have they'll lay down arms once Gaddafi has been defeated ? What about the opposition, will they be able to return to peaceful existence or will they fear attack from the rebels ?

I have no guarantee no one goes into conflicts with guarantees. I can guarantee one thing though and that is the killing people who oppose someones dictatorial rule if no help is given. Playing around and holding up NATO and trading shots with France shows the level at which the AKP likes to operate.

Finally, it's not wrong to raise your voice and let your opinion be heard, however if you shut your mouth and let the wrongdoings continue, then you're no better than the people who kept quiet during WW2 and let atrocities continue.

Huh ? This doesn't even make sense. Turkey is the one holding up this process of helping the people in Libya. Why do you think the Head of NATO went to Turkey? on a good will visit ? It was to tell the Administration to get its act together. Which seems to have paid off since Turkey is agreeing on most aspects of the NATO plan now.

There isn't a split in NATO Germany had disagreements on certain aspects but it was once again the AKP and Erdogan giving out another hot headed speech on how civilians shouldn't die without once mentioning what Gaddafi was doing. I love how he always takes the Humanitarian point but has zero objectivity on issues that require them. Which is understandable as to why he does it. It plays right into the people he needs to please.

 

[Lankan Ranger]

Turkey Agree for Libya no-fly zone

Nato has agreed to take command of enforcing the no-fly zone over Libya from the US.

NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said all Nato members had agreed to the move, including Turkey.

BBC News - Libya: Nato to take command of Libya no-fly zone

 

[Saithan]

No see i don't cry about everything the modernized nations do so i can please the Muslim majority for political gain. Unlike Erdogan in Jeddah. Then getting angry at France for not caring to invite the crying "humanitarians" for Paris.

So you are saying that in a democracy, (PM elected by the people etc.) you shouldn't do what your people wants. I think Jigs that you may be a dictator under that appearence of yours.

NATO has legitimacy because their is a common consensus among its member states and similar views as was the case when its formation happened. Sometimes there are disagreements. However there isn't one member that always runs the other way when decisions occur. Then tries to run back when left out. No one has time for the AKP hold up when people are being killed by a Gaddafi.

If just one of the NATO countries disagree, then there is no consensus, and if Turkey should give its consent afterwards then it's because NATO has listened and accomodated.

What attack ? That he married his 15 year old Cousin when he was 30 ? That is not a insult. It is a fact. A mans morals and basic views on society tells far more then what university he went to.

Lol, sorry but it is acceptable that you marry your cousin as long as it won't lead to genetic disorder. You have your own POW on that so I will respect that.

Just like it was for us kemalists when we saved the country that was sold out. No one saying it isn't. Are you saying its ok to not help these people achieve freedom over a oppressive dictator ? Also comparing this to Iraq is inaccurate. The U.S. is already packing up and handing the operation over to NATO and no troop involvement is even proposed.

Riiight, so now you're back during war of liberty, so you are claiming that those who fought during the war of liberty were kemalists. I guess I am wrong in calling myself Turk, maybe I should be called a Kemalist. I think it's about time you wake up Jigs We're Turks and we won that war together united.

The Libyan people have the right to be free and should be protected from Gaddafi, but I don't agree that rushing in without a plan is a good idea.

My comparison with Iraq was only to point out the theft and damage the country's people suffered, and is still suffering. How many suicide bombs and internal strife do you think the country is experiencing daily, monthly or yearly ?

I have no guarantee no one goes into conflicts with guarantees. I can guarantee one thing though and that is the killing people who oppose someones dictatorial rule if no help is given. Playing around and holding up NATO and trading shots with France shows the level at which the AKP likes to operate.

No that is correct, you can't guarentee anything if you don't have a consensus in NATO. Did you even consider that Libya might turn into a bloody civil war ? look at Somalia, you want a repeat of the same thing in Libya ?

On top of not having a plan you don't have any guarentee for the Libyan people. What will you do if the "warmongering" country's hold Libya accountable for the cost of war. Is it fair that the Libyan people be made to pay for the cost ?

Huh ? This doesn't even make sense. Turkey is the one holding up this process of helping the people in Libya. Why do you think the Head of NATO went to Turkey? on a good will visit ? It was to tell the Administration to get its act together. Which seems to have paid off since Turkey is agreeing on most aspects of the NATO plan now.

I think you are wrong again, it's funny how you tribute any positive developement to anyone but Turkey, perhaps you should consider giving up your Turkish nationality. In the meantime read this.
Turkey – U.S. reach initial consensus on Libya | Turkey

There isn't a split in NATO Germany had disagreements on certain aspects but it was once again the AKP and Erdogan giving out another hot headed speech on how civilians shouldn't die without once mentioning what Gaddafi was doing. I love how he always takes the Humanitarian point but has zero objectivity on issues that require them. Which is understandable as to why he does it. It plays right into the people he needs to please.

There is a big difference who kills civilians. Look at Afghanistan, and see what reaction the people give when it's NATO soldiers/peacekeepers. So perhaps you can try to understand how it would look if the "West" came and cleaned up Gaddafi, but killed civilians in the process. There is an aftermath after the war to consider. Go watch Charlie Wilsons War if you need some perspective should be easy to understand.

Lastly I want to stress the importance of protecting the interest and freedom of the Libyan people, they deserve better.

 

[Jigs]

So you are saying that in a democracy, (PM elected by the people etc.) you shouldn't do what your people wants. I think Jigs that you may be a dictator under that appearence of yours.

What the AKP does is not the collective view of the Turkish people. However it is of course Turkey's official view of the matter. They are the leadership i never said they are not. I have no dictatorial views or concepts. If i did why would i be backing the rebels efforts to overthrow one.

If just one of the NATO countries disagree, then there is no consensus, and if Turkey should give its consent afterwards then it's because NATO has listened and accomodated.

It is holding up the process but as was recently posted Turkey has given into the majority.

Lol, sorry but it is acceptable that you marry your cousin as long as it won't lead to genetic disorder. You have your own POW on that so I will respect that.

That is also underage. You have my point of view on it. Obviously i don't view it as something positive to say the least.

Riiight, so now you're back during war of liberty, so you are claiming that those who fought during the war of liberty were kemalists. I guess I am wrong in calling myself Turk, maybe I should be called a Kemalist. I think it's about time you wake up Jigs We're Turks and we won that war together united.

Those who fought during the war of independence were Turks who followed the Principals of Ataturk. Plain and simple this was the case. I believe and follow Ataturk's ideology hence why i am labeled as a kemalist around here. So if you also believe in that ideology and our constitution founded on secularism and nationalism under Ataturk then sure you can be a kemalist too. Then you would have the same ideological view as me. If you have another view that is fine but to put the AKP and its supporters in the same boat of Ataturks ideals is obviously unrealistic. They do not share similar views.

The Libyan people have the right to be free and should be protected from Gaddafi, but I don't agree that rushing in without a plan is a good idea.

Rushing in without a plan is what Rumsfeld and the rest of the Bush administration did in Iraq. Which not only had no NATO,UNSC,Arab League backing for obvious reasons (there was no evidence of WMDs or Links to 9/11 terror cells). It also had no plan besides past the notion that it must be occupied. Libya has the backing of the 3 i mentioned above and it is quite clear in its goals so far. No fly zone (destruction of assets to enforce this) and a arms embargo against Gaddafi. To give the rebels the level playing ground needed to stop the dictator.

My comparison with Iraq was only to point out the theft and damage the country's people suffered, and is still suffering. How many suicide bombs and internal strife do you think the country is experiencing daily, monthly or yearly ?

I was not a supporter of the Iraq war it was done on the bases of lies(distinction must be drawn between U.S. administrations as Obama didn't support the Iraq war during his time as senator). However the conflict in Libya could have been avoided if Gaddafi stepped down. Mubarak didn't wage a war against people that opposed him he stepped down peacefully and the military kept order. Gaddafi instead picked the military to attack his own people that didn't like him.

Hence why international efforts is now underway against Gaddafi. The U.S. wasn't even the first country to fire the first shots of the war this is a NATO operation. Now that the AKP have conceded and are on board of their hissy fit we can provide the needed support to the people of Libya so they can overthrow Gaddafi and stop the violence.

 

[Jigs]

No that is correct, you can't guarentee anything if you don't have a consensus in NATO. Did you even consider that Libya might turn into a bloody civil war ? look at Somalia, you want a repeat of the same thing in Libya ?

I can't guarantee anything even if a consensus is reached in NATO that just means everyone in NATO is agreed on the course of action.
No one is waving a list of promises with a mission accomplished sign at the bottom. We are just looking to stop Gaddafi from killing his own people.

On top of not having a plan you don't have any guarentee for the Libyan people. What will you do if the "warmongering" country's hold Libya accountable for the cost of war. Is it fair that the Libyan people be made to pay for the cost ?

They are paying the cost to their own dictatorial government each and everyday. Is it wrong to stop that ? Or should we leave them alone and let Gaddafi kill them off. They missed the footage of when the rebels were celebrating and thanking NATO in masses when the operations started. It is on Al-Jazeera and you free to see how happy they were to hear the international community came to help their cause.

I think you are wrong again, it's funny how you tribute any positive developement to anyone but Turkey, perhaps you should consider giving up your Turkish nationality. In the meantime read this.
Turkey – U.S. reach initial consensus on Libya | Turkey

As a nationalist that follows the principals of the founding of this nation i would be far better dead then actually giving up any form of my Turkish citizenship. Also i already mentioned that a agreement on most issues has been reached after the NATO heads visit. Once again the run around the AKP gave was for nothing more then political point scoring.

There is a big difference who kills civilians. Look at Afghanistan, and see what reaction the people give when it's NATO soldiers/peacekeepers. So perhaps you can try to understand how it would look if the "West" came and cleaned up Gaddafi, but killed civilians in the process. There is an aftermath after the war to consider. Go watch Charlie Wilsons War if you need some perspective should be easy to understand.

Lastly I want to stress the importance of protecting the interest and freedom of the Libyan people, they deserve better.

Civilians in wars will die that is not avoidable and is a sad truth but i doubt any type of major civilian damage if any will occur as NATO is after Gaddafi's military assets unlike him who is actually after his own people.

 

[bling bling]

muslims should get together and take stand over libya...otherwise it could be india's turn next

 

[Saithan]

muslims should get together and take stand over libya...otherwise it could be india's turn next

I'll believe that when I see it. But I very much doubt that. it might be the arab countries one after another, Yemen, Bahrein, etc.

 

[A1Kaid]

What can you expect from someone that married his 15 year old cousin. These people are going to get us kicked out of NATO if they keep this up. I don't like Sarkozy but there is a reason him and other states are starting to cut us out(though not inviting us to the paris conference certainly didn't help). Everytime something with NATO comes up we are the only country to object we did this same crap with Iran during our UNSC rotation. Having objections is one thing but trying to narrow and undermine these operations for political points is just sad.

You need to stop being so submissive to the Europeans, they won't respect you for kissing.

No see i don't cry about everything the modernized nations do so i can please the Muslim majority for political gain. Unlike Erdogan in Jeddah. Then getting angry at France for not caring to invite the crying "humanitarians" for Paris.

Right, your more interested in appeasing the Christian, western, and European majority for political gain, it seems. Which really means compromising ones national assets and loss of strategic gains in the long term.

 

[A1Kaid]

Since people are mentioning Erdogan's religion, it's worth mentioning that Sarkozy is half-Jewish. It is not a coincidence that he is so anti-Muslim.

As for the French law about religious symbols in schools, it is blatantly discriminatory since it bans the headscarf but allows small necklaces with a cross or star of David.

AFAIK, both his parents are Jewish immigrants from Hungary. It's interesting because some Hungarians are of Turkic lineage. I think Jacques Chirac was a better French President. He was against the Iraq war from the beginning and warned people of the campaign.

 

[ovarel]

sad to see there are some europhiles here disgracing our country.

Turkey will be respected if we stay strong and go after our interests.Sucking up to them wont provide anything but shame.

put it in your head,for gods sake.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I really thought to begin with that this JIGS had some brain, but now i see the racism channeling out from his mind. You don't even respect your own country's religion Jigs, what can WE as Turks expect from a person who respects 20% of teh Turkish population?

 

[Desert Fox]

Christian discrimination and destruction of muslim countires needs to be countered otherwise, they will destroy all the muslims.

Christian????????????????????????? Wo wo wo!!! update your facts bro, most Europeans are either Atheist or Agnostic, and Sarkozy is a Hungarian Jew and so is his wife!!!