Turbofan engine project by GCC, Turkey, Indonesia and Korea

[kalu_miah]

Turbofan's are one of the basic building blocks of Civil and Military Aviation. In this thread we would like to discuss the feasibility of setting up an R&D and production for Turbofan engines. We can start small, following a beautiful small French Turbofan like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lwq9JtBoiU

 

[kalu_miah]

Why Turbofan engine development and why in GCC states?

GCC states population have reached a high HDI level:

Qatar 0.834
United Arab Emirates 0.818
Kuwait 0.790
Saudi Arabia 0.782

This proposal is to invest in a business and technology venture that will have the potential to make GCC states a technology hub for aviation R&D and manufacturing with support of other industries in the US, EU, South Korea, Turkey, Indonesia, Egypt, Malaysia, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Due to sensitive nature of defense tech, US/EU may not share defense related technology, but there should be no problem in commercial aviation technology sharing, as GCC states operate a huge fleet of commercial aircrafts sourced from the US and EU.

South Korea, Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt and Pakistan will however share most of their indigenous defense tech with GCC states, unless restriction is placed by any 3rd country, which is the original source of this technology.

To avoid complications with defense tech transfer, initially the project will concentrate solely on commercial aviation equipment. The first target product will be a Geared Turbofan similar to the Price Induction products DGEN 380/390:
Price Induction
World's smallest geared Turbofan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XxE8JguG_k

Price Induction

The development of the DGEN program is carried out at Price Induction by a multidisciplinary team of about 40 young engineers and technicians who graduated from top French and foreign Engineering Schools (e.g, Polytechnique, ENSAM, ISAE (SUPAERO or ENSICA), Imperial College London).

This team is backed up by very experienced and skilled professionals (senior experts) and benefits from the work of Design Offices specializing in the various related fields such as aerodynamics, mechanics, electronics.

The development program follows the established standards of the aerospace industry and should lead to the CS-E certification of the DGEN jet engines.

In the above company, initially around 100 engineers would be a good start, with experts hired from US/EU (with experience in existing Engine manufacturing companies such as P&W, GE, RR and SNECMA) and young engineering graduates from GCC states and other OIC member countries.

The company will maintain close working relationship with following entities:
Korea Aerospace Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Turkish Aerospace Industries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Indonesian Aerospace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pakistan Aeronautical Complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Helwan Engine Factory | Facilities | NTI (Helwan Aero Engine factory, Egypt)
AIROD - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Malaysian Aerospace Industry)
Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Bangladesh)

and all major Aerospace engineering university and research institutions of South Korea and OIC member countries.

A 2nd project of the above company will be to purchase the following design from ERAU or create a similar Personal Jet design using 2 x DGEN 390 geared Turbofan jets from Price Induction, create a prototype product and after sufficient testing and certification in US, EU and other countries, market this Personal Jet in world market:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-RuOyjJ7as
Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University - World's Leader in Aviation and Aerospace Education

 

[kalu_miah]

Cheapest jet plane in the world, $125,000

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQxBOSSkXmk

Sonex Aircraft SubSonex JSX-1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This home build airplane kit uses a single Czech made PJ-100 Turbojet:
PBS Turbines

http://www.desertaerospace.com/tj_100_300_200.jpg
Turbojets are older design and not as fuel efficient as Turbofans, which has a much higher bypass ratio (bigger fan that passes air outside the core engine duct). Geared Turbofans are latest advancement in Turbofans which support even higher bypass ratio, by slowing down the main big fan blade in the front.

Using the same jet, there is a jet glider, $180,000:
Desert Aerospace - Revolutionizing Aviation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p49KHX4ksKw

This is a glider with retractable engine, put inside the hull once reached enough height. At night, it can be used silently over enemy installations, for example by FSA.

Both of these could be used for research.

 

[tyrant]

1. Why these four countries/groups and not for example Malaysia, Egypt, Pakistan or Bangladesh?
2. Why would S. Korea join the other countries? They did not join others in 5th gen fighter.

 

[T-123456]

Im sure you mean well but you are to obsessed with the GCC.
Care for Bangladesh first,

 

[kalu_miah]

Good idea I guess. Quick question though, why do you keep saying "we", when there is no Bangladesh in GCC/Turkey/Indonesia and Korea?

Bangladesh is mentioned in post #2.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Good idea I guess. Quick question though, why do you keep saying "we", when there is no Bangladesh in GCC/Turkey/Indonesia and Korea?

He might have used it as a reference to Muslims ... He also happens to have Korean relatives

Im sure you mean well but you are to obsessed with the GCC.
Care for Bangladesh first,

Could you please paraphrase what you were trying to say?

 

[T-123456]

He might have used it as a reference to Muslims ... He also happens to have Korean relatives




Could you please paraphrase what you were trying to say?

Well its very easy,he allways thiinks of the GCC first and never mention his country first(as if there is no Bangladesh)
You should give him an honorary citizenship.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

Well its very easy,he allways thiinks of the GCC first and never mention his country first(as if there is no Bangladesh)
You should give him an honorary citizenship.

Who the hell Am I anyway

 

[T-123456]

Who the hell Am I anyway

You cant fool me Yzd

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

You cant fool me Yzd

Well,

I guess Kalu has got affections to the Gulf states as much as what I hold to our friends

 

[kalu_miah]

1. Why these four countries/groups and not for example Malaysia, Egypt, Pakistan or Bangladesh?
2. Why would S. Korea join the other countries? They did not join others in 5th gen fighter.

1. In post #2, I mentioned those 4 countries as well. Sorry for the misleading title:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/middle...t-gcc-turkey-indonesia-korea.html#post4797585

2. South Korea did not join 5th gen. F-35 program, mainly because 5th gen. is not a huge requirement for them, they seek good relations with China and do not consider Chinese as their sworn enemy, like Japan does. In fact SK had been an ally of China for 1400 years, even though they had occasional wars. So the main threat of SK comes from a belligerent regime in North Korea, which can be handled by their recent purchase of F-15SE (Stealth Silent Eagle version with internal weapons bay) and they are developing their own KAI KF-X 4.5 gen. fighter using US or European engine:
KAI KF-X - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aircraft engine | SAMSUNG TECHWIN

PRODUCT
Robot
Security Solution
Energy
BAS/BEMS
Industry
Defense
Artillery System
Depot Maintenance
Aircraft engine

Description about Aircraft Engines
Samsung Techwin has started its Gas Turbine engine R&O business since 1979 and expanded its services to the worldwide customers as well as ROK government covering various Gas Turbine engines.

Samsung Techwin has successfully produced more than 5,000 engines. Samsung Techwin is committed to bring the best services to the customers through continued technology innovation, and will provide the customers with the total solutions of gas turbine engines.

Services

- Manufacturing and R&O of gas turbines installed in fighter, helicopter and marine ship
- Core components/parts manufacturing of gas turbines
- Development and manufacturing of Auxiliary Power Unit and Small Gas Turbine
- Development and manufacturing of guided weapon engine and rocket propulsion parts
Production line

- F404, F110, T700-701K, LM500, LM2500 gas turbines
- PPU, K-77 APU, HUH APU, small gas turbine
- Small gas turbine for guided weapon, rocket propulsion parts

Its a good question, why they will join these countries in a consortium. I am not sure they will, but I am hoping they will, because:
- in KAI KF-X program they have Indonesian Aerospace as 20% partner and are still negotiating with Turkey to merge it with their TAI TF-X program, but so far it is not making good progress because Turkey wants 50% of the development and have apparently chosen to go on their own with SAAB as tech partner
- Korea has tech partnership with Turkey in many projects: Altay MBT Tank, T-155 Firtina Howitzer, Trainer KT-1T etc.
TURKEY - Turkish-Korean defense cooperation at full speed
- Indonesia and Korea defense cooperation:
S. Korea, Indonesia urged to deepen defense cooperation | The Jakarta Post

Data from the Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration shows that Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI) has delivered 17 KT-1 single turboprop basic trainers to Indonesia, worth US$91 million.

In May 2011, Indonesia signed a $400 million deal to procure 16 units of T-50 Golden Eagle advanced jet trainers from KAI.

In December 2011, Daewoo Shipbuilding & Marine Engineering (DSME) won a $1.1 billion contract to manufacture three 1,400-ton U-209 diesel-electric submarines.

The University of Indonesia’s defense expert, Andi Widjajanto, suggested that Indonesia should use its close ties with South Korea to improve local defense industries.

“South Korea gives the chance to our defense industries to have an integrated weaponry platform,” he said on the sidelines of the seminar.

“We can count on Daewoo for submarines and warships. KAI can cooperate with state aircraft maker PT Dirgantara Indonesia [PT DI]. We can work with the manufacturers of K-21 tanks,” Andi said.

Budiman also now expected South Korea to resume the joint development of the KFX/IFX jet fighter program.

So there is existing history of defense cooperation between S. Korea and countries such as Turkey, Indonesia, UAE, Bangladesh etc.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-d...ea-transfer-uav-missile-technologies-uae.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Navy

As of April,2010 the rapid modernization program of BN involves order of
2x Incheon Class corvettes.(South korea)
On discussion:
3x guided missile frigates in addition to the couple ordered from (China / South Korea),
4x Submarine (Turkey / Germany / South Korea / China).

So, it is my prediction that S. Korea will not loose this opportunity to get involved in this project, unless US pressures them not to, behind the scenes. Since, it is mainly for civilian aircraft and engine, I am hoping it will not raise too many eye brows in Washington D.C.

 

[kalu_miah]

Im sure you mean well but you are to obsessed with the GCC.
Care for Bangladesh first,

Bro, note who is thanking your post above. Some people do not like cooperation between "brotherly" countries.

In answer to your question, I do care about Bangladesh. Some years back I set up a business venture there. I don't work there any more, but it still employs several thousand people and make export earning for Bangladesh. I don't think you will find another Bangladeshi with this kind of track record here in this forum. Unlike many who are pounding their keyboards, I have actually done something that made a difference to my country and it is still ongoing.

Why GCC, here I am looking at some factors, such as:
- availability of developed human resources
- source of financing
- history of economic and people-to-people relations with other nations
- trust relations with other nations based on solid track record of standing by them in time of need

If we look at all these factors, GCC turns out to be the best place to host this joint consortium industry among all the nations mentioned. If Pakistan, Turkey or Bangladesh for example would be the best place according to these factors, I would recommend them as well.

 

[T-123456]

Bro, note who is thanking your post above. Some people do not like cooperation between "brotherly" countries.

In answer to your question, I do care about Bangladesh. Some years back I set up a business venture there. I don't work there any more, but it still employs several thousand people and make export earning for Bangladesh. I don't think you will find another Bangladeshi with this kind of track record here in this forum. Unlike many who are pounding their keyboards, I have actually done something that made a difference to my country and it is still ongoing.

Why GCC, here I am looking at some factors, such as:
- availability of developed human resources
- source of financing
- history of economic and people-to-people relations with other nations
- trust relations with other nations based on solid track record of standing by them in time of need

If we look at all these factors, GCC turns out to be the best place to host this joint consortium industry among all the nations mentioned. If Pakistan, Turkey or Bangladesh for example would be the best place according to these factors, I would recommend them as well.

I think you have some good ideas for the future,the only problem i have is that you look at it from a wrong angle(for me).
Think out of the box(without religion or sects involved).
Why not work with all those who can bring us not steps but leaps further and are willing to work with us?
The hosts of this industry should be devided into all countries involved.
You need the best of the best,then use the best of the best,find ways to bring the best in various fields together.
The first and most important of all things needed before ever dreaming of this project becoming a reality is the willingness of the countries mentioned to work together of which i dont see ever happening.

 

[kalu_miah]

Well,

I guess Kalu has got affections to the Gulf states as much as what I hold to our friends

You got that right bro. GCC countries stood by us (Bangladesh) and are standing by us and we will stand by them.

As for me personally, we have an old legend in my father's family that 5 generation back one of our ancestors came from that part of the world as a trader and settled down. During his last days he went back to Makka with his wife and made a Sarai Khana (guest house) for Haj travelers from our part of the world. I don't know if there is any truth to it or it is just a story.

Migration from Arab countries was not uncommon, I met an old Iraqi-Bangladeshi gentleman whose father was Iraqi.