TTP Sympathizers in the Military??

[pak-marine]

Well, one thing is for sure. IT HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY. Ideology ALONE can corrupt a highly trained force!

Why the sipahi cadre and officers are lowly paid with very tough jobs many come from villages with large extended families they have many mouths to feed how hard it is to bribe them with a bit of idealogy to get info Also retired officers ? they can be easily bribed ? i mean they are off the scene ,in my opinion its always about the money

 

[TalibanSwatter]

It's a mixture of both: A little truth, a spec of ambiguity, and whole lot of *bull*. We have to look at every angle, and scrub this problem.



Well, one thing is for sure, IT HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE MONEY. Ideology ALONE can corrupt a highly trained force!

You've hit the nail on the head - Ideology! It is this insidious ideology that has created such TTP sympathizers inside the military. Dismantling the TTP in itself is not enough - the military needs to block all sources and organizations(primarily Saudi Salafis and their local sidekicks such as the Jamaat Islami) that have been busy spreading the germs of Salafi/Wahabi ideology within the rank and file.

 

[Foo_Fighter]

It's a mixture of both: A little truth, a spec of ambiguity, and whole lot of *bull*. We have to look at every angle, and scrub this problem.

Though I do understand what you mean and agree with you while being cautious. However, these radicals should know now that an attack on them in inevitable and they can't keep terrorizing people/country as and when they wish.

I am very confident that PA and PAF is very well equipped to take them head on and make them bite the dust. I only wonder, why do they not take this step. I do not wish Pakistan to have a situation like LTTE. TTP is a cancer, wipe it off!!!

 

[Hyperion]

Why the sipahi cadre and officers are lowly paid with very tough jobs many come from villages with large extended families they have many mouths to feed how hard it is to bribe them with a bit of idealogy to get info Also retired officers ? they can be easily bribed ? i mean they are off the scene ,in my opinion its always about the money

No mate. It doesn't. However, the ideology permeates all ranks and positions. As long as the training mantra being imparted to the Sipahi is going to be "Allah-U-Akbar," "you're killing the Kafirs," we're going to have a problem. The only way out is to teach them, "There is nothing but Pakistan, if it is lost, you'll have nothing left" I think the latter will work more effectively, and will not have an after-effect, where the Sipahi may need to judge and juggle his loyalties, or be ambiguous about his morality.

Whenever you mix morality or puritanical viewpoints into a training regime, you're opening a can of worms that you don't want to touch!

 

[Anotherangle]

You've hit the nail on the head - Ideology! It is this insidious ideology that has created such TTP sympathizers inside the military. Dismantling the TTP in itself is not enough - the military needs to block all sources and organizations(primarily Saudi Salafis and their local sidekicks such as the Jamaat Islami) that have been busy spreading the germs of Salafi/Wahabi ideology within the rank and file.

Different ideologies are part of a democratic society. Look at the experience of USSR and USA; an ideology cannot be controlled.

 

[Hyperion]

Different ideologies are part of a democratic society. Look at the experience of USSR and USA; an ideology cannot be controlled.

Well, they maybe. Just don't mix them with highly explosive, armed forces. Teach them to your kids. Who cares? Just spare the rest of the country! Now enough from you, obviously you're someone who has been banned before and are here to derail a thread once again!

 

[Mercenary]

Though I do understand what you mean and agree with you while being cautious. However, these radicals should know now that an attack on them in inevitable and they can't keep terrorizing people/country as and when they wish.

I am very confident that PA and PAF is very well equipped to take them head on and make them bite the dust. I only wonder, why do they not take this step. I do not wish Pakistan to have a situation like LTTE. TTP is a cancer, wipe it off!!!

Sri Lanka was unique in its geography thats its an Island and thus there is a physical barrier which will prevent the LTTE terrorists from retreating further.

For TTP, when Pakistan launches its offensive, they can retreat across the border into Afghanistan and since the border and mountains are so vast, it is physically impossible to stop them from going back and forth.

Drones and precision air campaign is the answer. Keep hitting them from the air and continue to fund and raise Anti-Taliban militias to oppose and fight these guys.

 

[CENTCOM]

It is easy to see that these terrorists are showing signs of nervousness. They responded to the speculation about a joint operation in NWA by issuing a threat against the Pakistani army. These terrorists have already targeted GHQ in Rawalpindi, a naval base in Karachi, and the Minhas base of the PAF at Kamra last week. We encourage the Pakistani army to remain vigilant against these terrorists. At the same time, we want to make it clear that we have no intentions to step our boots inside Pakistani territory. But we fully support Pakistan in its fight against insurgents, and have encouraged the Pakistani government to target those who are working against our efforts to stabilize the region. With that said, ultimately, it will be up to the Pakistani army to decide the best course of action. We stand by Pakistan and hope to use our renewed alliance against these terrorists.

LTC Taylor,
DET, United States Central Command
www.Centcom.mil/Ur

 

[TalibanSwatter]

Different ideologies are part of a democratic society. Look at the experience of USSR and USA; an ideology cannot be controlled.

Wrong. Just like Zia ul Haq changed the ideological landscape of the country by embarking on his Wahabization project - promoting the ideology and thus creating sectarian/ideological fissures that exist in the country to this day - the reverse trend can be engineered over time, provided our establishment(military supprted by civilian leadership) commits to rolling back the very real nightmare conjured up by Zia, with equal zeal and effort.

 

[Hyperion]

It is easy to see that these terrorists are showing signs of nervousness. They responded to the speculation about a joint operation in NWA by issuing a threat against the Pakistani army. These terrorists have already targeted GHQ in Rawalpindi, a naval base in Karachi, and the Minhas base of the PAF at Kamra last week. We encourage the Pakistani army to remain vigilant against these terrorists. At the same time, we want to make it clear that we have no intentions to step our boots inside Pakistani territory. But we fully support Pakistan in its fight against insurgents, and have encouraged the Pakistani government to target those who are working against our efforts to stabilize the region. With that said, ultimately, it will be up to the Pakistani army to decide the best course of action. We stand by Pakistan and hope to use our renewed alliance against these terrorists.

LTC Taylor,
DET, United States Central Command
www.Centcom.mil/Ur

LTC Taylor of DET, USCC: Ok, we'll take your word for it!

Now, why not show a little good will and faith, by sending in perimeter defense equipment with the CSF (of-course open source, so our tech guys can have a look at any backdoor code).

I mean it will go a long way in building "mutual" trust. Any comments?

 

[airmarshal]

And is this your personal assessment? And in such a case, who may you be? Air-marshal, JCOSC, Admiral or just plain old simpleton four star General?

Whenever making such sweeping statements, please state your "privileged" position, which gives you a right to do so.

And can you explain from your privileged position how is it possible otherwise? Instead of criticizing the poster, please provide a substantial rebuttal. After all, we all are discussing here, not point scoring against each other.

 

[KingMamba]

Of course there are sympathizers for the TTP in the military. Some of their attacks can only be achieved if they have a mole on the inside helping them, but it doesn't matter because those fools are not long for this world.

 

[Hyperion]

And can you explain from your privileged position how is it possible otherwise? Instead of criticizing the poster, please provide a substantial rebuttal. After all, we all are discussing here, not point scoring against each other.

I would rebut, if I had made such a statement. And yes, you're right about point scoring; We're definitely not scoring points here! So, let's keep it to topic at hand.

 

[Amaa'n]

I agree here that we have ttp sympathizers in our armed forces, if I recall an ex- SSG n commando was involved in the attack on PNS Mehran, another perspective is that I believe the intelligence was shared with US counterparts and Leon Panetta was the first one to disclose it to public, 3rd point is am sure the intelligence reports and attack details are kept highly confidential so a siphai getting access to it is very rare so it could be some among the ranks of Major or a Col, as ZH always saying we have mir jaffers and mir sadiq among us. it could a bluff by ttp to demoralize the soliders and make public stand against the PA which might buy them some time

 

[Anotherangle]

Well, they maybe. Just don't mix them with highly explosive, armed forces. Teach them to your kids. Who cares? Just spare the rest of the country! Now enough from you, obviously you're someone who has been banned before and are here to derail a thread once again!

My fault! My comment was too terse to be understood by everyone. But, I was writing in the context, not out of it.
I said look at the example of USA (democratic, tolerant) and USSR (totalitarian, intolerant to any opposition): there were sympathizer to communism in US forces and other forces or not. Were they punished for their ideology? Sympathy and collaboration in a crime are two different things, the difference that the totalitarian never understand.
You mean explosive Army (or rather implosive army)? In fact, Soviets got rid of all suspected anti revolutionist within soviet forces, so when Soviet Union collapsed, did the Soviet forces stand by the communist ideology?
What USA did: communism was proven wrong in an open debate (in their society) and the time testified that. You can (and should) do your best to prove (what you think are wrong) ideologies wrong in a democratic way and the time will prove you right.
I think the problem is here with the key word of this thread ‘sympathizers’. It should have been accomplices or collaborators. I suspect people are confusing sympathizers with empathizers- hmmm , still empathy is not a crime… (every one is innocent unless proven guilty)!?!
My point is that there might be sympathizers, but go after the accomplices; do not try to eliminate ideology- it might fire back. Counter the ideology democratically.
Please, do not let my incompetence in language eclipse your ability to read between the lines!

Wrong. Just like Zia ul Haq changed the ideological landscape of the country by embarking on his Wahabization project - promoting the ideology and thus creating sectarian/ideological fissures that exist in the country to this day - the reverse trend can be engineered over time, provided our establishment(military supprted by civilian leadership) commits to rolling back the very real nightmare conjured up by Zia, with equal zeal and effort.

Again you too missed the point! I did not say anything about starting or promoting an ideology or setting a trend, did I? I said ideology cannot be controlled (except democratically). Take your own example of ZiaulHaq: was he able to control/ eliminate Bhuttoism. He suppressed People Party and countered it with Islamization, but even today People party is in Government.
We need to differentiate between ideology, sympathy and crime, please.
In fact, intolerance and extremism (no matter pro-Taliban or anti- Taliban) is a greater threat for us and might lead to greater violence in the society.