Trump warning to Germany/Nato
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A.P. Richelieu
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I could have said, before hell freezes over, but I choose not to.
Europe does not need to show gratitude to Trump or his likes.
There is a better America to show gratitude to.
NATO served the US interest as much as European interest.
The US policy was to stop communism in its track, and an alliance with Western
Europe definitely put that part of the World outside the communist reach.
Serbia, the little stupid brother of the Soviet Union clearly remember the lesson it was taught
by NATO.
Penguin
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GDP Nominal
Poland 467,591 million US$
Greece 194,248 million US$
Romania 187,039 million US$
Per the International Monetary Fund (2016)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)
GDP per capita (PPP)
Poland 27,764 international dollars (Int$),
Greece 26,669 international dollars (Int$),
Romania 22,348 international dollars (Int$)
International Monetary Fund (2016)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
Defence spending
Greece 2.6% of GDP (2015)
Poland 2.2% of GDP (2015)
Romania 1.4% of GDP (2015)
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS
Romania has the lowest nominal GPD and the lowest per capita GDP of the three
Greece's GPD is much closer than Poland's to that of Romanias
BUT
Greece spends more on defence than Poland in terms of % of GDP on defence
AND
Both Greece and Poland spend a larger % of GDP on defence
Conclusion
Romania spends less on defence, which may be because GDP per capita of Poland and Greece is quite close and substantially more than that of Romania.
Sure. You keep on believing European countries have no choice but to invest in the US... sweet dreams.
What charity? How does the US defend my country? By cooking up an excuse to invade Iraq so the Bush's can finally ket even?
DejanSRB
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US defeated singlehanded Soviet Union with help of GB, all others was just a pawns.
Serbia wasnt a little brother of Soviet Union. Never. Yugoslavia was until 1948 and then our communist said fucck off to Stalin and come closer to USA. We was Switzerland of second world.
We was little brother of Russian Empire. Remember them? Russian empire that put Sweden to global irrelevant position and from glorious nation made Sweden a nation that makes good furniture.
Yes, I am from small country but I am proud of it. At least our women make smallest percent of prostitutes in Europe along Azerbaijan and Turkey, unlike Swedish girls which lose virginity at age of 14 and have at least 20 sexual partners.
And thats the second good thing that Swedish produce except good furniture.
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TheBlackCoat
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I am talking for myself. My President is talking for my country.
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Did your president ever talked about pulling troops out of allied countries if they don't pay the extortion money ?
TheBlackCoat
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Germany and France would be the only ones left in EU.
Thousands of Americans have sacrificed their lives to defend the rights and liberties of the people across the world and all we get is return are blood sucking lazy people waiting for a handout.
So messages are implicit and/or subtle.
Penguin
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Balony.
As a transcontinental country, Russia is a member of both the Council of Europe (COE) and the Asia Cooperation Dialogue. Ukraine is not a transcontinental country and located in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transcontinental_countries
Conventions used for the boundary between Europe and Asia during the 18th and 19th centuries. The red line shows the most common modern convention, in use since c. 1850 (see below).
Beige: Europe
Grey: Asia
Green: historically placed in either continent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundaries_between_the_continents_of_Earth
The territory of modern Ukraine has been inhabited since 32,000 BC. During the Middle Ages, the area was a key centre of East Slavic culture, with the powerful state of Kievan Rus' forming the basis of Ukrainian identity. Following its fragmentation in the 13th century, the territory was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers, including Lithuania, Poland, the Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary, and Russia. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but its territory was eventually split between Poland and the Russian Empire, and later merged fully into Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
The East Slavs emerged as a recognizable group in Europe between the 3rd and 8th centuries AD. Founded and ruled by a Varangian warrior elite and their descendants, the medieval state of Rus arose in the 9th century. In 988 it adopted Orthodox Christianity from the Byzantine Empire, beginning the synthesis of Byzantine and Slavic cultures that defined Russian culture for the next millennium. Rus' ultimately disintegrated into a number of smaller states; most of the Rus' lands were overrun by the Mongol invasion and became tributaries of the nomadic Golden Horde in the 13th century. The Grand Duchy of Moscow gradually reunified the surrounding Russian principalities, achieved independence from the Golden Horde, and came to dominate the cultural and political legacy of Kievan Rus'. By the 18th century, the nation had greatly expanded through conquest, annexation, and exploration to become the Russian Empire, which was the third largest empire in history, stretching from Poland on the west to Alaska on the east.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
The establishment of the first East Slavic states in the 9th century coincided with the arrival of Varangians, the traders, warriors and settlers from the Baltic Sea region. Primarily they were Vikings of Scandinavian origin, who ventured along the waterways extending from the eastern Baltic to the Black and Caspian Seas. According to the Primary Chronicle, a Varangian from Rus' people, named Rurik, was elected ruler of Novgorod in 862. In 882 his successor Oleg ventured south and conquered Kiev, which had been previously paying tribute to the Khazars, founding Kievan Rus'. Oleg, Rurik's son Igor and Igor's son Sviatoslav subsequently subdued all local East Slavic tribes to Kievan rule, destroyed the Khazar khaganate and launched several military expeditions to Byzantium and Persia. In the 10th to 11th centuries Kievan Rus' became one of the largest and most prosperous states in Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Kievan_Rus.27
So, ultimately, they are Scandinavian in origin, which makes both Ukrainians and Russians European.
During the 20th century three periods of independence occurred. The first of these periods occurred briefly near the end of World War I and the second occurred, also briefly, during World War II. However, both of these first two earlier periods would eventually see Ukraine's territories consolidated back into a Soviet republic within the USSR. The third period of independence began in 1991, when Ukraine gained its independence from the Soviet Union in the aftermath of its dissolution at the end of the Cold War. Ukraine has fiercely maintained its independence as a sovereign state ever since. Before its independence, Ukraine was typically referred to in English as "The Ukraine", but sources since then have moved to drop "the" from the name of Ukraine in all uses.
Following its independence, Ukraine declared itself a neutral state. Nonetheless it formed a limited military partnership with the Russian Federation and other CIS countries and a partnership with NATO in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
From 1985 onwards, the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who sought to enact liberal reforms in the Soviet system, introduced the policies of glasnost (openness) and perestroika (restructuring) in an attempt to end the period of economic stagnation and to democratise the government. This, however, led to the rise of strong nationalist and separatist movements. Prior to 1991, the Soviet economy was the second largest in the world, but during its last years it was afflicted by shortages of goods in grocery stores, huge budget deficits, and explosive growth in the money supply leading to inflation.
By 1991, economic and political turmoil began to boil over, as the Baltic republics chose to secede from the Soviet Union. On March 17, a referendum was held, in which the vast majority of participating citizens voted in favour of changing the Soviet Union into a renewed federation. In August 1991, a coup d'état attempt by members of Gorbachev's government, directed against Gorbachev and aimed at preserving the Soviet Union, instead led to the end of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. On December 25, 1991, the USSR was dissolved into 15 post-Soviet states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Soviet_Union
In the late 1980s, the constituent republics of the Soviet Union started legal moves towards potentially declaring sovereignty over their territories, citing Article 72 of the USSR constitution, which stated that any constituent republic was free to secede. On 7 April 1990, a law was passed allowing a republic to secede if more than two-thirds of its residents voted for it in a referendum. Many held their first free elections in the Soviet era for their own national legislatures in 1990.
In 1989, the Russian SFSR, which was then the largest constituent republic (with about half of the population) convened a newly elected Congress of People's Deputies. Boris Yeltsin was elected its chairman. On 12 June 1990, the Congress declared Russia's sovereignty over its territory.
After a landslide victory of Sąjūdis in Lithuania, that country declared its independence restored on 11 March 1990.
In August 1991, Latvia and Estonia declared the restoration of their full independence (following Lithuania's 1990 example).
The remaining 12 republics continued discussing new, increasingly looser, models of the Union. However, by December 1991, all except Russia and Kazakhstan had formally declared independence.
On 8 December 1991, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus (formerly Byelorussia), signed the Belavezha Accords, which declared the Soviet Union dissolved and established the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) in its place. While doubts remained over the authority of the accords to do this, on 21 December 1991, the representatives of all Soviet republics except Georgia signed the Alma-Ata Protocol, which confirmed the accords.
Under the 1992 Lisbon Protocol, Russia also agreed to receive all nuclear weapons remaining in the territory of other former Soviet republics. Since then, the Russian Federation has assumed the Soviet Union's rights and obligations. Ukraine has refused to recognize exclusive Russian claims to succession of the USSR and claimed such status for Ukraine as well, which was codified in Articles 7 and 8 of its 1991 law On Legal Succession of Ukraine. Since its independence in 1991, Ukraine has continued to pursue claims against Russia in foreign courts, seeking to recover its share of the foreign property that was owned by the Soviet Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union#Revolution_and_foundation
Balony.
Crimea is a major peninsula on the northern coast of the Black Sea in Eastern Europe that is almost completely surrounded by both the Black Sea and the smaller Sea of Azov to the northeast. It is located south of the Ukrainian region of Kherson and west of the Russian region of Kuban
Crimea (or the Tauric Peninsula, as it was called from antiquity until the early modern period) has historically been at the boundary between the classical world and the Pontic–Caspian steppe. Its southern fringe was colonised by the ancient Greeks, the Persians, the Romans, the Byzantine Empire, the Crimean Goths, the Genoese and the Ottoman Empire, while at the same time its interior was occupied by a changing cast of invading steppe nomads and empires, such as the Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Goths, Alans, Bulgars, Huns, Khazars, Kipchaks, Mongols and the Golden Horde. Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century.
In 1783, Crimea became a part of Russian Empire as the result of Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774). Following the Russian Revolution of 1917, Crimea became an autonomous republic within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic in the USSR, though later, during World War II, it was downgraded to the Crimean Oblast.
In 1954, the Crimean Oblast was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by Nikita Khrushchev as a sign of friendship between the Russian and Ukrainian peoples.
When Ukraine was formed as an independent state in 1991, most of the peninsula was reorganized as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, while the city of Sevastopol retained special status within Ukraine. In 1997 Ukraine and Russia signed two treaties that partitioned the former Soviet Black Sea Fleet, setting terms that allowed Russia to continue basing its fleet in Crimea. Sevastopol remained the location of the Russian Black Sea Fleet headquarters, while the Ukrainian Naval Forces were also headquartered in the city. Ukraine extended Russia's lease of the naval facilities under the 2010 Kharkiv Pact in exchange for discounted natural gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
Ukraine is an independent, sovereign state, whose territory includes Crimea.
Nobody in Europe in their right mind ever expected the colleapse of the Soviet Union to mean the end of Russia. It is a baseless and unsubstantiated claim.
Meaning?
Great, but preferably not at the expense of the neightbors.
Yeah, you must be doing something that hurts. Which kinda defeats what you said earlier about Russia posing no threat.
Hence poses a threat.
Oh, sure. It is just that a) no actual accusations made here, b) anyone can make accusations, but it is the proof that counts. I'm sure the Russian state is run by cuddly kittens who mean no harm to anyone.
What bitter history? When, how, who?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35154633
Just did
Don't strike that tone. I actually have uncles in the US (Dutch immigrants) that fought from Normandy into Germany. I'm pretty sure none of them would vote Trump if they still lived.
In addition, in my own direct line, I have an uncle escaping occupied Netherlands to UK via Sweden, a father and uncle going into hiding at home to avoid being taken to Germany as slave labor, an aunt in the Dutch underground and a granddad taken hostage by Germans to be shot in case of some underground action.
And finally there is one uncle who was unlucky enough to marry a pro-Nazi Reichsdeutsche (German) and move to Germany. He got stuck in the Wehrmacht and ended up in East Germany after the war. He was pretty much ignored by all the rest of the family untill the late 1970s.
So, in real life, it is often a bit more complicate then you might think.
Besides, I think you are forgetting that people in e.g. Middle and South America and elsewhere might look a little different at US involvement (not necessarily as 'defending the rights and liberties of people across the word': see dirty wars in Honduras, Guatamala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Argentina. )
Sincerely, one blood sucking lazy Penguin, apparently waiting for a US handout.
ps; you can apologize privately later.
Last edited:
TheBlackCoat
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Balony.
As a transcontinental country, Russia is a member of both the Council of Europe (COE) and the Asia Cooperation Dialogue. Ukraine is not a transcontinental country and located in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transcontinental_countries
Conventions used for the boundary between Europe and Asia during the 18th and 19th centuries. The red line shows the most common modern convention, in use since c. 1850 (see below).
Beige: Europe
Grey: Asia
Green: historically placed in either continent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundaries_between_the_continents_of_Earth
The territory of modern Ukraine has been inhabited since 32,000 BC. During the Middle Ages, the area was a key centre of East Slavic culture, with the powerful state of Kievan Rus' forming the basis of Ukrainian identity. Following its fragmentation in the 13th century, the territory was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers, including Lithuania, Poland, the Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary, and Russia. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but its territory was eventually split between Poland and the Russian Empire, and later merged fully into Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
The East Slavs emerged as a recognizable group in Europe between the 3rd and 8th centuries AD. Founded and ruled by a Varangian warrior elite and their descendants, the medieval state of Rus arose in the 9th century. In 988 it adopted Orthodox Christianity from the Byzantine Empire, beginning the synthesis of Byzantine and Slavic cultures that defined Russian culture for the next millennium. Rus' ultimately disintegrated into a number of smaller states; most of the Rus' lands were overrun by the Mongol invasion and became tributaries of the nomadic Golden Horde in the 13th century. The Grand Duchy of Moscow gradually reunified the surrounding Russian principalities, achieved independence from the Golden Horde, and came to dominate the cultural and political legacy of Kievan Rus'. By the 18th century, the nation had greatly expanded through conquest, annexation, and exploration to become the Russian Empire, which was the third largest empire in history, stretching from Poland on the west to Alaska on the east.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
The establishment of the first East Slavic states in the 9th century coincided with the arrival of Varangians, the traders, warriors and settlers from the Baltic Sea region. Primarily they were Vikings of Scandinavian origin, who ventured along the waterways extending from the eastern Baltic to the Black and Caspian Seas. According to the Primary Chronicle, a Varangian from Rus' people, named Rurik, was elected ruler of Novgorod in 862. In 882 his successor Oleg ventured south and conquered Kiev, which had been previously paying tribute to the Khazars, founding Kievan Rus'. Oleg, Rurik's son Igor and Igor's son Sviatoslav subsequently subdued all local East Slavic tribes to Kievan rule, destroyed the Khazar khaganate and launched several military expeditions to Byzantium and Persia. In the 10th to 11th centuries Kievan Rus' became one of the largest and most prosperous states in Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Kievan_Rus.27
So, ultimately, they are Scandinavian in origin, which makes both Ukrainians and Russians European.
During the 20th century three periods of independence occurred. The first of these periods occurred briefly near the end of World War I and the second occurred, also briefly, during World War II. However, both of these first two earlier periods would eventually see Ukraine's territories consolidated back into a Soviet republic within the USSR. The third period of independence began in 1991, when Ukraine gained its independence from the Soviet Union in the aftermath of its dissolution at the end of the Cold War. Ukraine has fiercely maintained its independence as a sovereign state ever since. Before its independence, Ukraine was typically referred to in English as "The Ukraine", but sources since then have moved to drop "the" from the name of Ukraine in all uses.
Following its independence, Ukraine declared itself a neutral state. Nonetheless it formed a limited military partnership with the Russian Federation and other CIS countries and a partnership with NATO in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
From 1985 onwards, the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who sought to enact liberal reforms in the Soviet system, introduced the policies of glasnost (openness) and perestroika (restructuring) in an attempt to end the period of economic stagnation and to democratise the government. This, however, led to the rise of strong nationalist and separatist movements. Prior to 1991, the Soviet economy was the second largest in the world, but during its last years it was afflicted by shortages of goods in grocery stores, huge budget deficits, and explosive growth in the money supply leading to inflation.
By 1991, economic and political turmoil began to boil over, as the Baltic republics chose to secede from the Soviet Union. On March 17, a referendum was held, in which the vast majority of participating citizens voted in favour of changing the Soviet Union into a renewed federation. In August 1991, a coup d'état attempt by members of Gorbachev's government, directed against Gorbachev and aimed at preserving the Soviet Union, instead led to the end of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. On December 25, 1991, the USSR was dissolved into 15 post-Soviet states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Soviet_Union
In the late 1980s, the constituent republics of the Soviet Union started legal moves towards potentially declaring sovereignty over their territories, citing Article 72 of the USSR constitution, which stated that any constituent republic was free to secede. On 7 April 1990, a law was passed allowing a republic to secede if more than two-thirds of its residents voted for it in a referendum. Many held their first free elections in the Soviet era for their own national legislatures in 1990.
In 1989, the Russian SFSR, which was then the largest constituent republic (with about half of the population) convened a newly elected Congress of People's Deputies. Boris Yeltsin was elected its chairman. On 12 June 1990, the Congress declared Russia's sovereignty over its territory.
After a landslide victory of Sąjūdis in Lithuania, that country declared its independence restored on 11 March 1990.
In August 1991, Latvia and Estonia declared the restoration of their full independence (following Lithuania's 1990 example).
The remaining 12 republics continued discussing new, increasingly looser, models of the Union. However, by December 1991, all except Russia and Kazakhstan had formally declared independence.
On 8 December 1991, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus (formerly Byelorussia), signed the Belavezha Accords, which declared the Soviet Union dissolved and established the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) in its place. While doubts remained over the authority of the accords to do this, on 21 December 1991, the representatives of all Soviet republics except Georgia signed the Alma-Ata Protocol, which confirmed the accords.
Under the 1992 Lisbon Protocol, Russia also agreed to receive all nuclear weapons remaining in the territory of other former Soviet republics. Since then, the Russian Federation has assumed the Soviet Union's rights and obligations. Ukraine has refused to recognize exclusive Russian claims to succession of the USSR and claimed such status for Ukraine as well, which was codified in Articles 7 and 8 of its 1991 law On Legal Succession of Ukraine. Since its independence in 1991, Ukraine has continued to pursue claims against Russia in foreign courts, seeking to recover its share of the foreign property that was owned by the Soviet Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union#Revolution_and_foundation
Balony.
Crimea is a major peninsula on the northern coast of the Black Sea in Eastern Europe that is almost completely surrounded by both the Black Sea and the smaller Sea of Azov to the northeast. It is located south of the Ukrainian region of Kherson and west of the Russian region of Kuban
Crimea (or the Tauric Peninsula, as it was called from antiquity until the early modern period) has historically been at the boundary between the classical world and the Pontic–Caspian steppe. Its southern fringe was colonised by the ancient Greeks, the Persians, the Romans, the Byzantine Empire, the Crimean Goths, the Genoese and the Ottoman Empire, while at the same time its interior was occupied by a changing cast of invading steppe nomads and empires, such as the Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Goths, Alans, Bulgars, Huns, Khazars, Kipchaks, Mongols and the Golden Horde. Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century.
In 1783, Crimea became a part of Russian Empire as the result of Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774). Following the Russian Revolution of 1917, Crimea became an autonomous republic within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic in the USSR, though later, during World War II, it was downgraded to the Crimean Oblast.
In 1954, the Crimean Oblast was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by Nikita Khrushchev as a sign of friendship between the Russian and Ukrainian peoples.
When Ukraine was formed as an independent state in 1991, most of the peninsula was reorganized as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, while the city of Sevastopol retained special status within Ukraine. In 1997 Ukraine and Russia signed two treaties that partitioned the former Soviet Black Sea Fleet, setting terms that allowed Russia to continue basing its fleet in Crimea. Sevastopol remained the location of the Russian Black Sea Fleet headquarters, while the Ukrainian Naval Forces were also headquartered in the city. Ukraine extended Russia's lease of the naval facilities under the 2010 Kharkiv Pact in exchange for discounted natural gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
Ukraine is an independent, sovereign state, whose territory includes Crimea.
Nobody in Europe in their right mind ever expected the colleapse of the Soviet Union to mean the end of Russia. It is a baseless and unsubstantiated claim.
Meaning?
Great, but preferably not at the expense of the neightbors.
Yeah, you must be doing something that hurts. Which kinda defeats what you said earlier about Russia posing no threat.
Hence poses a threat.
Oh, sure. It is just that a) no actual accusations made here, b) anyone can make accusations, but it is the proof that counts. I'm sure the Russian state is run by cuddly kittens who mean no harm to anyone.
What bitter history? When, how, who?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35154633
http://missinglink.ucsf.edu/lm/russia_guide/historyofrussia.htm
Just did
Don't strike that tone. I actually have uncles in the US (Dutch immigrants) that fought from Normandy into Germany. I'm pretty sure none of them would vote Trump if they still lived.
In addition, in my own direct line, I have an uncle escaping occupied Netherlands to UK via Sweden, a father and uncle going into hiding at home to avoid being taken to Germany as slave labor, an aunt in the Dutch underground and a granddad taken hostage by Germans to be shot in case of some underground action.
And finally there is one uncle who was unlucky enough to marry a pro-Nazi Reichsdeutsche (German) and move to Germany. He got stuck in the Wehrmacht and ended up in East Germany after the war. He was pretty much ignored by all the rest of the family untill the late 1970s.
So, in real life, it is often a bit more complicate then you might think.
Besides, I think you are forgetting that people in e.g. Middle and South America and elsewhere might look a little different at US involvement (not necessarily as 'defending the rights and liberties of people across the word': see dirty wars in Honduras, Guatamala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Argentina. )
Sincerely, one blood sucking lazy Penguin, apparently waiting for a US handout.
ps; you can apologize privately later.
Sir,
I have great respect for families like yours that sacrificed and sacrificing their lives to serve the country but there are enough people who just want to suck the blood and expect a hand out from the developed world. And there are enough lunatics in this part of the world who would sell their children's future to give a hand out to such lazy and thankless bunch. Hope you understand my point.
Thank you for your family's service.
A.P. Richelieu
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Yugoslavia was never close to the US.
While not as aligned into the Warsaw Pact it was certainly protected by the Soviet Union in the UN, so certainly the relations from the time of the Russian Empire continued in some form.
As for beeing Globally Irrelevant, the current position is a result of a conscious strategy
decided by King Karl XIV Johan, the imported French Mareshal.
It has served us well, but is a PITA for backwards people like the editors at Breitbart.
If you read something else than it, or similar fake news you would find that
the median age of losing virginity in Sweden is 16-17 years old,
and the median number of sex partners is 6-10.
That is not much more different than other European Countries, even on the low side.
That you find an early sex debute equates prostitution only shows your bigoted nature.
It is anyway better to be known for furniture, than for:
- Being the reason of WW1
- Criminal Activities
- Genocide on Muslims (Srebrenica)
A.P. Richelieu
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That is not supported by any real statistics, support here for the EU has increased since BrExit.
The US pays for its military.
The European Countries pays for their military.
There is no handout between countries.
Europe also buy a lot more US Military Equipment than the US buys European Military Equipment.
This is really bad.
Many of the current deaths of American Soldiers have been killed in actions which have been adviced against by European Allies.
Very few have been killed defending Europe.
The US has the war against ISIS high on the Agenda.
Having access to airfields in Europe is beneficiary for that.
Especially Incirlik of course, but wounded soldiers are often flown to Europe for proper medical care.
The US naval forces in the Mediterranean has Italy as its base.
Most drone control in the ME are rumoured to be done in Ramstein Germany.
If the US does not want to have forces in Europe, the US can redeploy them.
Obama wanted more focus on Asia, an effort more or less destroyed by Trump.
maximuswarrior
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Balony.
As a transcontinental country, Russia is a member of both the Council of Europe (COE) and the Asia Cooperation Dialogue. Ukraine is not a transcontinental country and located in Europe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_transcontinental_countries
Conventions used for the boundary between Europe and Asia during the 18th and 19th centuries. The red line shows the most common modern convention, in use since c. 1850 (see below).
Beige: Europe
Grey: Asia
Green: historically placed in either continent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boundaries_between_the_continents_of_Earth
The territory of modern Ukraine has been inhabited since 32,000 BC. During the Middle Ages, the area was a key centre of East Slavic culture, with the powerful state of Kievan Rus' forming the basis of Ukrainian identity. Following its fragmentation in the 13th century, the territory was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers, including Lithuania, Poland, the Ottoman Empire, Austria-Hungary, and Russia. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but its territory was eventually split between Poland and the Russian Empire, and later merged fully into Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
The East Slavs emerged as a recognizable group in Europe between the 3rd and 8th centuries AD. Founded and ruled by a Varangian warrior elite and their descendants, the medieval state of Rus arose in the 9th century. In 988 it adopted Orthodox Christianity from the Byzantine Empire, beginning the synthesis of Byzantine and Slavic cultures that defined Russian culture for the next millennium. Rus' ultimately disintegrated into a number of smaller states; most of the Rus' lands were overrun by the Mongol invasion and became tributaries of the nomadic Golden Horde in the 13th century. The Grand Duchy of Moscow gradually reunified the surrounding Russian principalities, achieved independence from the Golden Horde, and came to dominate the cultural and political legacy of Kievan Rus'. By the 18th century, the nation had greatly expanded through conquest, annexation, and exploration to become the Russian Empire, which was the third largest empire in history, stretching from Poland on the west to Alaska on the east.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia
The establishment of the first East Slavic states in the 9th century coincided with the arrival of Varangians, the traders, warriors and settlers from the Baltic Sea region. Primarily they were Vikings of Scandinavian origin, who ventured along the waterways extending from the eastern Baltic to the Black and Caspian Seas. According to the Primary Chronicle, a Varangian from Rus' people, named Rurik, was elected ruler of Novgorod in 862. In 882 his successor Oleg ventured south and conquered Kiev, which had been previously paying tribute to the Khazars, founding Kievan Rus'. Oleg, Rurik's son Igor and Igor's son Sviatoslav subsequently subdued all local East Slavic tribes to Kievan rule, destroyed the Khazar khaganate and launched several military expeditions to Byzantium and Persia. In the 10th to 11th centuries Kievan Rus' became one of the largest and most prosperous states in Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Kievan_Rus.27
So, ultimately, they are Scandinavian in origin, which makes both Ukrainians and Russians European.
During the 20th century three periods of independence occurred. The first of these periods occurred briefly near the end of World War I and the second occurred, also briefly, during World War II. However, both of these first two earlier periods would eventually see Ukraine's territories consolidated back into a Soviet republic within the USSR. The third period of independence began in 1991, when Ukraine gained its independence from the Soviet Union in the aftermath of its dissolution at the end of the Cold War. Ukraine has fiercely maintained its independence as a sovereign state ever since. Before its independence, Ukraine was typically referred to in English as "The Ukraine", but sources since then have moved to drop "the" from the name of Ukraine in all uses.
Following its independence, Ukraine declared itself a neutral state. Nonetheless it formed a limited military partnership with the Russian Federation and other CIS countries and a partnership with NATO in 1994.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine
From 1985 onwards, the last Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who sought to enact liberal reforms in the Soviet system, introduced the policies of glasnost (openness) and perestroika (restructuring) in an attempt to end the period of economic stagnation and to democratise the government. This, however, led to the rise of strong nationalist and separatist movements. Prior to 1991, the Soviet economy was the second largest in the world, but during its last years it was afflicted by shortages of goods in grocery stores, huge budget deficits, and explosive growth in the money supply leading to inflation.
By 1991, economic and political turmoil began to boil over, as the Baltic republics chose to secede from the Soviet Union. On March 17, a referendum was held, in which the vast majority of participating citizens voted in favour of changing the Soviet Union into a renewed federation. In August 1991, a coup d'état attempt by members of Gorbachev's government, directed against Gorbachev and aimed at preserving the Soviet Union, instead led to the end of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union. On December 25, 1991, the USSR was dissolved into 15 post-Soviet states.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia#Soviet_Union
In the late 1980s, the constituent republics of the Soviet Union started legal moves towards potentially declaring sovereignty over their territories, citing Article 72 of the USSR constitution, which stated that any constituent republic was free to secede. On 7 April 1990, a law was passed allowing a republic to secede if more than two-thirds of its residents voted for it in a referendum. Many held their first free elections in the Soviet era for their own national legislatures in 1990.
In 1989, the Russian SFSR, which was then the largest constituent republic (with about half of the population) convened a newly elected Congress of People's Deputies. Boris Yeltsin was elected its chairman. On 12 June 1990, the Congress declared Russia's sovereignty over its territory.
After a landslide victory of Sąjūdis in Lithuania, that country declared its independence restored on 11 March 1990.
In August 1991, Latvia and Estonia declared the restoration of their full independence (following Lithuania's 1990 example).
The remaining 12 republics continued discussing new, increasingly looser, models of the Union. However, by December 1991, all except Russia and Kazakhstan had formally declared independence.
On 8 December 1991, the presidents of Russia, Ukraine and Belarus (formerly Byelorussia), signed the Belavezha Accords, which declared the Soviet Union dissolved and established the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) in its place. While doubts remained over the authority of the accords to do this, on 21 December 1991, the representatives of all Soviet republics except Georgia signed the Alma-Ata Protocol, which confirmed the accords.
Under the 1992 Lisbon Protocol, Russia also agreed to receive all nuclear weapons remaining in the territory of other former Soviet republics. Since then, the Russian Federation has assumed the Soviet Union's rights and obligations. Ukraine has refused to recognize exclusive Russian claims to succession of the USSR and claimed such status for Ukraine as well, which was codified in Articles 7 and 8 of its 1991 law On Legal Succession of Ukraine. Since its independence in 1991, Ukraine has continued to pursue claims against Russia in foreign courts, seeking to recover its share of the foreign property that was owned by the Soviet Union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union#Revolution_and_foundation
Balony.
Crimea is a major peninsula on the northern coast of the Black Sea in Eastern Europe that is almost completely surrounded by both the Black Sea and the smaller Sea of Azov to the northeast. It is located south of the Ukrainian region of Kherson and west of the Russian region of Kuban
Crimea (or the Tauric Peninsula, as it was called from antiquity until the early modern period) has historically been at the boundary between the classical world and the Pontic–Caspian steppe. Its southern fringe was colonised by the ancient Greeks, the Persians, the Romans, the Byzantine Empire, the Crimean Goths, the Genoese and the Ottoman Empire, while at the same time its interior was occupied by a changing cast of invading steppe nomads and empires, such as the Cimmerians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Goths, Alans, Bulgars, Huns, Khazars, Kipchaks, Mongols and the Golden Horde. Crimea and adjacent territories were united in the Crimean Khanate during the 15th to 18th century.
In 1783, Crimea became a part of Russian Empire as the result of Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774). Following the Russian Revolution of 1917, Crimea became an autonomous republic within the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic in the USSR, though later, during World War II, it was downgraded to the Crimean Oblast.
In 1954, the Crimean Oblast was transferred to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic by Nikita Khrushchev as a sign of friendship between the Russian and Ukrainian peoples.
When Ukraine was formed as an independent state in 1991, most of the peninsula was reorganized as the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, while the city of Sevastopol retained special status within Ukraine. In 1997 Ukraine and Russia signed two treaties that partitioned the former Soviet Black Sea Fleet, setting terms that allowed Russia to continue basing its fleet in Crimea. Sevastopol remained the location of the Russian Black Sea Fleet headquarters, while the Ukrainian Naval Forces were also headquartered in the city. Ukraine extended Russia's lease of the naval facilities under the 2010 Kharkiv Pact in exchange for discounted natural gas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
Ukraine is an independent, sovereign state, whose territory includes Crimea.
Nobody in Europe in their right mind ever expected the colleapse of the Soviet Union to mean the end of Russia. It is a baseless and unsubstantiated claim.
Meaning?
Great, but preferably not at the expense of the neightbors.
Yeah, you must be doing something that hurts. Which kinda defeats what you said earlier about Russia posing no threat.
Hence poses a threat.
Oh, sure. It is just that a) no actual accusations made here, b) anyone can make accusations, but it is the proof that counts. I'm sure the Russian state is run by cuddly kittens who mean no harm to anyone.
What bitter history? When, how, who?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35154633
http://missinglink.ucsf.edu/lm/russia_guide/historyofrussia.htm
Just did
Don't strike that tone. I actually have uncles in the US (Dutch immigrants) that fought from Normandy into Germany. I'm pretty sure none of them would vote Trump if they still lived.
In addition, in my own direct line, I have an uncle escaping occupied Netherlands to UK via Sweden, a father and uncle going into hiding at home to avoid being taken to Germany as slave labor, an aunt in the Dutch underground and a granddad taken hostage by Germans to be shot in case of some underground action.
And finally there is one uncle who was unlucky enough to marry a pro-Nazi Reichsdeutsche (German) and move to Germany. He got stuck in the Wehrmacht and ended up in East Germany after the war. He was pretty much ignored by all the rest of the family untill the late 1970s.
So, in real life, it is often a bit more complicate then you might think.
Besides, I think you are forgetting that people in e.g. Middle and South America and elsewhere might look a little different at US involvement (not necessarily as 'defending the rights and liberties of people across the word': see dirty wars in Honduras, Guatamala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Argentina. )
Sincerely, one blood sucking lazy Penguin, apparently waiting for a US handout.
ps; you can apologize privately later.
We don't require a lengthy lecture on Wikipedia history. I don't care what happened in the 1980s or during the Ottoman era. Neither are we impressed with sources quoted from Wikipedia. An open source platform that can be edited by every Tom, Dick and Harry. If we start going into history, I can fill this thread with a million references from all over the internet to prove my point. Let's just keep it to the basics because this conflict isn't rocket science. Also, we don't want to fill this thread with copy and paste stuff from the internet who no one is going to read.
No doubt that any person who has a basic grasp of geography and history also understands that Ukraine and Russia are like twin brothers. Both speak the same language and are geographically intertwined. The point is that it is highly ludicrous when some Europeans/Americans make absurd claims that Russia is interfering in European matters when they are meddling in Ukraine or annexing Crimea. Let's not even get into this murky area of interference because we already know who is the expert at that. From the Middle East to Asia and beyond. There is only one country in the world which is renowned for meddling and interfering in the affairs of sovereign states.
Every person understands what is going on in the surrounding of Russia. The Cold War was initiated by the US to defeat a rising superpower. Plain and simple. The US is obsessed with its hegemony fetish. The US invented anti-Communist lies to spread fear and hate. Europe took the bait and can't let go of its anti-Communist stance till this day.
For once, Europe needs to stop being a lackey of the US. Europe has been fed with anti-Communist propaganda for far too long. Europe needs to have an indepent policy. Not a policy of appeasing a greater power which keeps reminding that the WWII debt is due.
Also, for once the West collectively needs to stop handing out lectures of morality to others. This mantra that we are better than the rest is an old broken record. One that has been debunked long ago.
You need to realize that the Russian election hacking remark was a rather subtle sarcastic reminder. The US has fallen to an extreme low when they accuse others of hacking their elections. The Americans are the experts of overthrowing regimes and supporting dictators when it suits their interests. It is ironic that this country has the audacity to accuse others of meddling in their elections.
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Penguin
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You cannot interprete, weigh and judge the present without knowledge of the past. Which you seem to be lacking. Since you just added you are not interested in rectifying this deficiency, my discussion with you ends here.
Have a nice life.
maximuswarrior
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Is that all you got? Aren't you going to debunk the rest? You know that the discussion is lost the moment someone ends a debate prematurely.
There is nothing to rectify regarding the Wikipedia sources you have posted. It is mere copy and paste content. I cannot verify its validity nor its credibility. Neither can you.
Besides, we really don't need a lengthy history lesson on Russia and Ukraine. We already know that it's partially part of Europe and Asia. That is not even the debate here.
The question still stands. It is ironic and baffling when the Americans and their European counterparts play the Europe card by claiming that Russia is interfering in Ukraine/Crimea. Even more so knowing the murky history of particularly US interference in other parts of the world.
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