Trump signs bill blocking transfer of F-35 fighter jets to Turkey

[xenon54 out]

Some Turks here even believe they can lead Nato.

Turkey can switch to Russia for defense but the problem is how the two countries trust each other, Russia will never trust Turkey and vice versa. Russia broke the back of Ottoman empire and totally destroyed it which Turks still hold grudge.

What trust between countries are you talking about? You are probably spying on your best buddy Russia and visa verca.
Turkey joined NATO because of Soviet threat but now that is gone, if Turkey thinks its time it can leave NATO and even join SCO and believe me Russia and China will gladly accept Turkeys memebrship. What do you think how international diplomacy works? Based on friendship and trust? I thought you guys learned it the hard way when the English came to China.

It is Turkey that needs NATO and the US , and not the other way around. As you like to pretend.

Ok, tell me exactly why Turkey needs NATO, who in its surrounding is an existencial threat?
And tell me what NATO is gonna do when it looses control over the straits? I think you underestimate Turkeys importance even for Israels security.

Erdoğan is stabbing his allies in the back on this issue and than pretending he is the victim , by threatening to take the matter to court . This is not just no way to treat your allies , it is also bad diplomacy.

Tell this to USA thats arming proxies hostile to Turkey just across its border.

 

[Oublious]

What trust between countries are you talking about? You are probably spying on your best buddy Russia and visa verca.
Turkey joined NATO because of Soviet threat but now that is gone, if Turkey thinks its time it can leave NATO and even join SCO and believe me Russia and China will gladly accept Turkeys memebrship. What do you think how international diplomacy works? Based on friendship and trust? I thought you guys learned it the hard way when the English came to China.


Ok, tell me exactly why Turkey needs NATO, who in its surrounding is an existencial threat?
And tell me what NATO is gonna do when it looses control over the straits? I think you underestimate Turkeys importance even for Israels security.


Tell this to USA thats arming proxies hostile to Turkey just across its border.

It can not more stupid when a Chinese talking about trust ahaha, what did Russian defence minister told the world about China about copying ther hardware?

If you ask me, Russian trust us more then selling hardware to Bejing. They should try to innovate and work hard.

 

[Nilgiri]

By the way, I would recommend checking out my thread on this subject here:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/f-35...choose-one-which-one-should-it-choose.600852/

Yep its why I tagged you here because I came across that thread and it had much interesting conversation in it.

Thanks bud.

 

[Hassan Guy]

 

[dBSPL]

It can not more stupid when a Chinese talking about trust ahaha, what did Russian defence minister told the world about China about copying ther hardware?


If you ask me, Russian trust us more then selling hardware to Bejing. They should try to innovate and work hard.

China is the largest communist regime remains after Soviet-Union and the Eastern Europe Bloc collapsed. China survived by the tactic of lizard changing skin color, Beijing has cheated the western countries by the pretense opening the iron curtain, Beijing has applied an ugly economic pattern: “the free market is led by the socialism”. The democratic country leadership changes by the constitution, the free election, the top job limited by the term, the national policy belongs to the political party rules the government and also the national leader’s concern. Therefore, China just changes the leadership, not changing the ruling party, certainly Beijing has never changed the ambition to control its region by imperalism.

China has trapped the US and the western countries for long time. Beijing has tricked western world about the economic co-operation in order to gain more benefit and profit. The western countries do love the profit and actually the cheap labor. Nevertheless, investing in China, the western countries’ companies could avoid the union bully, strike action. The worker in western countries gradually lost the job, the company, the business moved to China. So the product “made in China” has overwhelmed the world.

**

Throughout thousand years of history, the Han often abused the neighbor countries, like Vietnam were invaded many times and they colonized in hundred years with the barbarous behaviors, the historic memories has remained ever in the Vietnamese people.On the each area, actually there is no ideological coherence but opportunism: Nowadays, China's foreign policy characteristic carry of being a bad copy of US imperialism. The year 1979 is not a distant date. Now those who talk about trust here, first need to look at their history. We have to listen to the China's near history from Vietnamese friends. After the Vietnam war of liberation China moved with the US and tried to invade Vietnam. The Chinese-Soviet crisis(more like backstabbing) and China's unwillingness to see a strong country around its borders have created the greatest dictator of history for years. China which is stood up with the support of Russian industry, betrayed to Soviets in the first opportunity and stood behind Pol Pot, with USA.

 

[Oublious]

China is the largest communist regime remains after Soviet-Union and the Eastern Europe Bloc collapsed. China survived by the tactic of lizard changing skin color, Beijing has cheated the western countries by the pretense opening the iron curtain, Beijing has applied an ugly economic pattern: “the free market is led by the socialism”. The democratic country leadership changes by the constitution, the free election, the top job limited by the term, the national policy belongs to the political party rules the government and also the national leader’s concern. Therefore, China just changes the leadership, not changing the ruling party, certainly Beijing has never changed the ambition to control its region by imperalism.

China has trapped the US and the western countries for long time. Beijing has tricked western world about the economic co-operation in order to gain more benefit and profit. The western countries do love the profit and actually the cheap labor. Nevertheless, investing in China, the western countries’ companies could avoid the union bully, strike action. The worker in western countries gradually lost the job, the company, the business moved to China. So the product “made in China” has overwhelmed the world.

**

Throughout thousand years of history, the Han often abused the neighbor countries, like Vietnam were invaded many times and they colonized in hundred years with the barbarous behaviors, the historic memories has remained ever in the Vietnamese people.On the each area, actually there is no ideological coherence but opportunism: Nowadays, China's foreign policy characteristic carry of being a bad copy of US imperialism. The year 1979 is not a distant date. Now those who talk about trust here, first need to look at their history. We have to listen to the China's near history from Vietnamese friends. After the Vietnam war of liberation China moved with the US and tried to invade Vietnam. The Chinese-Soviet crisis(more like backstabbing) and China's unwillingness to see a strong country around its borders have created the greatest dictator of history for years. China which is stood up with the support of Russian industry, betrayed to Soviets in the first opportunity and stood behind Pol Pot, with USA.

Wow, another fact but from historic angle. Thank you brother!

 

[lonelyman]

China is the largest communist regime remains after Soviet-Union and the Eastern Europe Bloc collapsed. China survived by the tactic of lizard changing skin color, Beijing has cheated the western countries by the pretense opening the iron curtain, Beijing has applied an ugly economic pattern: “the free market is led by the socialism”. The democratic country leadership changes by the constitution, the free election, the top job limited by the term, the national policy belongs to the political party rules the government and also the national leader’s concern. Therefore, China just changes the leadership, not changing the ruling party, certainly Beijing has never changed the ambition to control its region by imperalism.

China has trapped the US and the western countries for long time. Beijing has tricked western world about the economic co-operation in order to gain more benefit and profit. The western countries do love the profit and actually the cheap labor. Nevertheless, investing in China, the western countries’ companies could avoid the union bully, strike action. The worker in western countries gradually lost the job, the company, the business moved to China. So the product “made in China” has overwhelmed the world.

**

Throughout thousand years of history, the Han often abused the neighbor countries, like Vietnam were invaded many times and they colonized in hundred years with the barbarous behaviors, the historic memories has remained ever in the Vietnamese people.On the each area, actually there is no ideological coherence but opportunism: Nowadays, China's foreign policy characteristic carry of being a bad copy of US imperialism. The year 1979 is not a distant date. Now those who talk about trust here, first need to look at their history. We have to listen to the China's near history from Vietnamese friends. After the Vietnam war of liberation China moved with the US and tried to invade Vietnam. The Chinese-Soviet crisis(more like backstabbing) and China's unwillingness to see a strong country around its borders have created the greatest dictator of history for years. China which is stood up with the support of Russian industry, betrayed to Soviets in the first opportunity and stood behind Pol Pot, with USA.

Haha, show off your ridiculous half knowledge about China affairs.

Funny one hand you describe USA and Europe as bad bad wolf, but when come to China, you made them look like innocent white rabbits, so gullible and easily manipulated by China, funny.

 

[MMM-E]

Seems you and Erdoğan got things wrong.

It is Turkey that needs NATO and the US , and not the other way around. As you like to pretend.

The main reason Turkey joined NATO was to ward off Soviet Union take over in the middle east. Now Erdoğan thinks the Russians are his bodies , that he he would risk loosing his allies ? And who would he go for support when he need it ?

And for what ? A one time , insignificant weapon deal ?

Only and idiot would not understand why the Americans don't want their top secret , plane of the future , to be surveillance by Russian systems.

Erdoğan is stabbing his allies in the back on this issue and than pretending he is the victim , by threatening to take the matter to court . This is not just no way to treat your allies , it is also bad diplomacy.

Wth are you talking about ? Russia doesnt attack on Turkey , even Russia supported Turkey to kick the US backed terrorists in N.Syria

also Russia invest $35 billion in Turkey to build Nuclear Power Plant and TURKSTREAM Gas Pipeline
also every year over 6 million Russian tourists comes to Turkey


on the other hand treacherous The US,The UK,France,Germany ( so-called NATO allies ) attack on Turkey since 1990s
(The US,The UK,France,Germany support Pkk/Ypg , DHKPC , FETO Terrorist organizations to destroy Turkey )

The US,The UK,France,Germany are stabbing their allies in the back since 1990s ,,,,, even I am not talking about Syria

TRUMP said that if Turkey start military operation against Pkk/Ypg terrorists , then the US will attack Turkish economy to protect Pkk/Ypg terrorists ( who killed over 40.000 innocent people including childs and women in Turkey since 1985 )

also The US,France are in action to support Greece,Egypt,Israel against Turkey ( to steal gas reserves from the Turks in the East Mediterranean )


Turkish People sees everything

Only and idiot would not understand why the Americans don't want their top secret , plane of the future , to be surveillance by Russian systems.

only idiots can believe this bullshit

Our S400 will use Turkish Radar software and IFF System , Russians can not surveillance F35s

on the other hand Israel uses F35s ( only a few hundred km away from Russian S400 Systems in Syria ) to be surveillance by Russian systems
also Norway uses F35s ( only a few hundred km away from Russian S400 Systems ) to be surveillance by Russian systems



in 2013 Zionist lobby in the US said that we will work to block sale of F35 to Turkey , then there was not a S400 deal between Turkey and Russia

Israel is crying and trying to block sale of F35 to Turkey

btw Zionist lapdog the US senate blocked sale of UCAV , Guidance kits , etc to Turkey
but Turkey has developed its own Guidance kits and UCAVs

now Turkey doesnt need American UCAVs and Guidance kits
even Turkey was became one of four countries in the world that develop high technology UCAV like AKINCI and ANKA-II ( even Europe,Russia,India,Japan are dreaming about it )

AKINCI UCAV by 2019-2021 ( 40.000 feet altitude , 24 hours endurance , thousands of km combat radius , 1300kg payload for 110km KGK smart bomb even 250+ km SOM cruise missile and GOKTUG air to air missiles , SATCOM , AESA Radar , SIGINT/ELINT )





also turbofan powered MIUS stealth UCAV by 2023
and sooner or later Turkey will develop its own TAI TFX 5th gen Fighter Jet with Turbofan Engine
The wind tests of certain systems of our MMU ( TF-X ) National Combat Aircraft have started
by 2023 out of hangar

 

[lonelyman]

U.S. President Donald Trump on Friday signed a spending bill that blocks the transfer of the country's F-35 new generation fighter jets to Turkey.

According to spending bill signed by Trump on Friday, delivery of the jets to Turkey will be blocked until the U.S. Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense submit an update to the report regarding the purchase of Turkey of the S–400 missile defense system from the Russian Federation.

In earlier report to the Congress, Pentagon said Turkey’s purchase of the Russian S-400 missile systems could result in Ankara’s potential expulsion from the F-35 program, as well as affecting its acquisition of other weapons including Boeing Co. ’s CH-47F Chinook helicopter and Lockheed’s F-16 fighter and UH-60 Black Hawk helicopters.

On Monday, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan confirmed the purchase and stated that there was no turning back from receiving the S-400 air defense systems from Russia in 2019.
Turkey expects the delivery of the defence missiles to start this year with Russian officials promising the delivery within this year.
The Congressional bill requires the U.S. departments to include a detailed description of plans for the imposition of sanctions, if Turkey goes ahead with the S-400 systems pursuant to section 231 of the Countering Russian Influence in Europe and Eurasia Act of 2017 (Public Law 115–44).
The Congress asks U.S. secretaries to deliver the report by November 1, 2019.
The same spending bill also blocks the sale of weapons to Erdoğan's security guards unless Secretary of State Mike Pompeo informs Congress that the guards charged with the assault on protestors in Washington, DC in May of 2017 have been brought to the justice.

A U.S. delegation visited Ankara in December, after the U.S. State Department informed the U.S. Congress that it had approved a $3.5-billion sale of Patriot air defence batteries to Turkey. The delegation reportedly set the cancellation of the S-400 deal as a prerequisite for the purchase of U.S.-made system.

The informal deadline for Patriot offer was on February 15th and the official deadline in March.

“The Russians said they would to deliver the S-400s in a short time both for a very good price and promising technology transfer,” the chairman of parliament’s foreign affairs committee, Volkan Bozkır told reporters in Ankara last week, following a visit to Washington. “Therefore we signed the deal for the purchase of S-400 systems as it addressed our needs and the main part of the payments have been made, while the efforts is going ahead for delivery to Turkey in November.”

According to the latest Congressional bill signed by Trump, the U.S. will wait until November to make its decision. Meanwhile, the Russian S-400s are expected to be delivered to Turkey by July 2019.

Erdogan, on Monday, repeated his conditions for the agreement to purchase Patriot missile defense systems from the U.S.

Turkey's strongman said technology transfer, co-production and financial support have not been offered by Washington to convince Ankara to purchase the Patriots.

https://ahvalnews.com/turkey-usa/trump-signs-bill-blocking-transfer-f-35-fighter-jets-turkey

Turk members will say we have TFX, we don't care about F-35 much

 

[艹艹艹]

Wow

 

[beijingwalker]

China is the largest communist regime remains after Soviet-Union and the Eastern Europe Bloc collapsed. China survived by the tactic of lizard changing skin color, Beijing has cheated the western countries by the pretense opening the iron curtain, Beijing has applied an ugly economic pattern: “the free market is led by the socialism”. The democratic country leadership changes by the constitution, the free election, the top job limited by the term, the national policy belongs to the political party rules the government and also the national leader’s concern. Therefore, China just changes the leadership, not changing the ruling party, certainly Beijing has never changed the ambition to control its region by imperalism.

China has trapped the US and the western countries for long time. Beijing has tricked western world about the economic co-operation in order to gain more benefit and profit. The western countries do love the profit and actually the cheap labor. Nevertheless, investing in China, the western countries’ companies could avoid the union bully, strike action. The worker in western countries gradually lost the job, the company, the business moved to China. So the product “made in China” has overwhelmed the world.

**

Throughout thousand years of history, the Han often abused the neighbor countries, like Vietnam were invaded many times and they colonized in hundred years with the barbarous behaviors, the historic memories has remained ever in the Vietnamese people.On the each area, actually there is no ideological coherence but opportunism: Nowadays, China's foreign policy characteristic carry of being a bad copy of US imperialism. The year 1979 is not a distant date. Now those who talk about trust here, first need to look at their history. We have to listen to the China's near history from Vietnamese friends. After the Vietnam war of liberation China moved with the US and tried to invade Vietnam. The Chinese-Soviet crisis(more like backstabbing) and China's unwillingness to see a strong country around its borders have created the greatest dictator of history for years. China which is stood up with the support of Russian industry, betrayed to Soviets in the first opportunity and stood behind Pol Pot, with USA.

You knowledge about China is half baked, China and Russia fell out because new Russian leadership denounced Stalin who back then was like a god in China, Stalin helped China so much and Mao and his colleagues just couldn't bear anyone smearing Stalin，Khrushchev's friendly approach to the west was regarded as a betrayal by Mao, that's where relations started to sour, so both countries and parties believe the other one betrayed first.
As for Vietnam, China helped Vietnam to win the Vietnam war with billions of dollars and PLA soldiers lives, China owes Vietnam nothing, but Vietnam invaded Cambodia which had a good relations with China and chose to side with Russia when Russia invaded Afghanistan which is another China's neighbor and China suddenly found herself all surrounded by Russia's allies from every direction, what'll you do if you faced such a grave situation? So in China's perspective, it's ungrateful Vietnam that betrayed China first.

 

[Beast]

Turkey has her own cards. She isn't just showing them...

Trump card or maybe nothing?

PA will have big problem for their Ta-129K engine given that US is such a problematic supplier. Pakistan shall cancel the deal with turkey.

Turk members will say we have TFX, we don't care about F-35 much

Their TFX is runs on American engine.

China is the largest communist regime remains after Soviet-Union and the Eastern Europe Bloc collapsed. China survived by the tactic of lizard changing skin color, Beijing has cheated the western countries by the pretense opening the iron curtain, Beijing has applied an ugly economic pattern: “the free market is led by the socialism”. The democratic country leadership changes by the constitution, the free election, the top job limited by the term, the national policy belongs to the political party rules the government and also the national leader’s concern. Therefore, China just changes the leadership, not changing the ruling party, certainly Beijing has never changed the ambition to control its region by imperalism.

China has trapped the US and the western countries for long time. Beijing has tricked western world about the economic co-operation in order to gain more benefit and profit. The western countries do love the profit and actually the cheap labor. Nevertheless, investing in China, the western countries’ companies could avoid the union bully, strike action. The worker in western countries gradually lost the job, the company, the business moved to China. So the product “made in China” has overwhelmed the world.

**

Throughout thousand years of history, the Han often abused the neighbor countries, like Vietnam were invaded many times and they colonized in hundred years with the barbarous behaviors, the historic memories has remained ever in the Vietnamese people.On the each area, actually there is no ideological coherence but opportunism: Nowadays, China's foreign policy characteristic carry of being a bad copy of US imperialism. The year 1979 is not a distant date. Now those who talk about trust here, first need to look at their history. We have to listen to the China's near history from Vietnamese friends. After the Vietnam war of liberation China moved with the US and tried to invade Vietnam. The Chinese-Soviet crisis(more like backstabbing) and China's unwillingness to see a strong country around its borders have created the greatest dictator of history for years. China which is stood up with the support of Russian industry, betrayed to Soviets in the first opportunity and stood behind Pol Pot, with USA.

Turkey for hundred of years continue try invading western Europe, colonise eastern Europe and Arabs. Now, even make enemies with most Arabs and is a pest to western Europe. The neighbour greek hate Turkish to core. Turkey is worst that China. Infuriate all nearby countries and has no allies. All weapon critical subsystem still depend on American. All your Turkish warship runs on LM2500 gas turbine. Fighter jet on F100W.

 

[MMM-E]

Turkey will have both F-35 and S400 , everybody will see it

TRUMP is not stupid to lose around $20 billion to Russia or Europe
Turkey plans to buy 100 F35A for Airforce and 32 F-35B for Navy
also $3,5 bil for PATRIOT Air Defense System

the US doesnt give F35s to Turkey for military aid
Turkey will pay around $15 billion to buy 132 F35
Turkey has money to buy Fighter Jets from Russia and Europe

the US can not cancel anything
Turkey is a global partner of F35 program since 2002 and Turkey spent $1,2 billlion for F35 program
and Turkey is waiting for F35 to replace F-4s since 2002

Erdogan said that Turkey will apply international arbitration if F-35 sales blocked
also Turkey has its own cards to hurt the US such as
-- to kick all US personnel and equipment out of our bases including INCIRLIK (Turkey did it in 1975)
-- to close KURECIK Radar Base ( Turkey hosts American AN/TPY2 Radar against Iranian Ballistic Missiles )
-- to block Bosphorus ( only gateway to the Blacksea for the US/NATO against Russia )
-- to destroy all Pkk/Ypg terrorists in Syria and bye bye the US
-- to buy more sophisticated weapons from Russia ( even co-developed projects )



and Turkey develops its own weapons 6 and 12 tons Utility Helicopters to replace American UH-1 and UH-60

Turkish TEI TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine will be ready in the next a few years to power TAI T-129 Attack and TAI T-625 Utility Helicopters , to replace CTS800 Turboshaft Engine

also Turkey develops TAI ATAK II heavy Attack Helicopter with 2000 shp Turboshaft Engine


and Engine from Rolls Royce or Eurojet to power TAI TFX Fighter Jet , even Russia is ready to develop Engine with Turkey for TAI TFX Fighter Jet

btw Turkey has started to develop Turbofan Engine for TAI TFX Fighter Jet


in the next 10-12 years Turkey will become one of five countries in the world that develop its own Air platforms with Engines , UCAVs , Satellites , EW Systems , AESA Radars and low-medium-high altitude Air Defense Systems ( and 12 years period is no long time for thousands of Turkish military history )

TAI T-129 Attack Helicopter
TAI T-625 and 12 tons class Utility Helicopters
TAI ATAK-II heavy Attack Helicopter
TAI ANKA / ANKA-II UCAVs
TAI HURKUS trainer and light attack Aircraft
TAI HURJET trainer and air close support Jet
TAI TF-X Fighter Jet
Baykar TB-2 Tactical UCAV
Baykar AKINCI heavyweight UCAV
Baykar MIUS stealth UCAV
Aselsan Airborne stand of Jammer
TAI/ASELSAN/TUBITAK-SAGE Military and Communication Satellites ( GOKTURK/IMECE/LAGARI/KILICSAT/TURKSAT-6A )


TEI TS1400 and TS2000 Turbosaft Engines for Helicopters
TEI PD170/PD220/PD550 Turboprob Engines for UAVs and UCAVs
TRMOTOR / TEI Turbofan Engines for stealth Fighter Jet and stealth UCAV

HISAR-A low altitude Air Defense System
HISAR-O medium altitude Air Defense System
SIPER high altitude Air Defense System
GUMS anti Ballistic Missile Defense System

ASELSAN/TUBITAK-SAGE high energy LASER Weapons
SAHI-209/SAPAN/TUFAN Electromagnetic Railguns


so F 35 and S400 will be latest foreign origin weapons in the Turkish Air Force
no more American or Russian weapons in the future

 

[Bengal71]

I said before Turkey will not get F-35.

This is what will happen:

1. Turkey won't get F-35
2. US won't refund money even if there is a ruling in favor of Turkey
3. Next US will most likely try blocking critical spare parts and ammo for the existing F-16 fleet.

If somehow US decides to sell the F-35 to Turkey, Turkey will be foolish to buy them. After what they are doing, buying F-35 will be shooting in their own foot because it will give them more leverage against Turkey in the future.

4. Turkey will spend a lot of money on their own 5th gen and after eating a lot of Turkish money, the British will block their Rolls Royce engine.

5. Turkey should not buy the F-35 even if the US comes and begs them. Turkey should for now see if they can buy Russian stealth and for their indigenous 5th gen should keep two or three different engine options, one from UK, One from Russia and one from China.

 

[MMM-E]

1. Turkey won't get F-35
2. US won't refund money even if there is a ruling in favor of Turkey
3. Next US will most likely trying blocking critical spare parts and ammo for the existing F-16 fleet.

1.. Turkey will have F35
2.. The US ( Boeing paid $600 million in compensation to Turkey for a much delayed multibillion dollar airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) program ..... this time the US will pay billions of dollars
3 .. Turkey doesnt need ammo for F-16s from the US ( Turkey has developed its own SOM Cruise Missile , LGK,KGK,HGK,NEB,TEBER laser guided and smart Bombs also BOZDOGAN and GOKDOGAN Air to Air Missiles and AKBABA anti radiation Missile are on the way ) and TAI can produce spare parts for F-16s even without American permission

4. Turkey will spend a lot of money on their own 5th gen and after eating a lot of Turkish money, the British will block their Rolls Royce engine.

Turkey has started to develop Turbofan Engine for TAI TFX Fighter Jet