Truckloads Of Stones In Ayodhya Put Focus Back On Ram Temple

[SarthakGanguly]

4-13 year old kids will be visiting pronhub.?

Post 12 - yes.

Majority of Indians now have access to the Internet. Even if they don't have proper toilets.

 

[DineshS]

It is true Muslims would want Mecca to be rebuilt if that ever happened. But there's a right way of doing things and a wrong way. The right way would have been to raise public awareness. Let the community there know of the significance of that spot and the meaning it holds...along with the evidence that there used to be a Mandir here. Work with the community(Hindus/Muslims/etc) and have them sign a petition to relocate the Masjid elsewhere.

Wrong approach was to force ur will on to ppl, tear down the Masjid and build a Mandir. How different is that from what Babar did?

What if Hindus insist that Macca was never there & adamantly refuse to hear the Muslims side or even acknowledge it? Do you seriously think if Muslims ever got majority in this situation, they would ever talk with Hindus to tear down the Ram Mandir and rebuild Macca?

The first court case for Ram Temple was filed 150 before.
For 150 years we have been begging Muslims to give us our Holy land. Let us know when it becomes too late?

No one is holding the current muslims responsible for things that happened long back. That's not the issue here. The issue is about making a historical wrong, right.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It is true Muslims would want Mecca to be rebuilt if that ever happened. But there's a right way of doing things and a wrong way. The right way would have been to raise public awareness. Let the community there know of the significance of that spot and the meaning it holds...along with the evidence that there used to be a Mandir here. Work with the community(Hindus/Muslims/etc) and have them sign a petition to relocate the Masjid elsewhere.

Wrong approach was to force ur will on to ppl, tear down the Masjid and build a Mandir. How different is that from what Babar did?

You are ideally right in what you are saying.

But ideal things happen rarely in real life. History is testament to the fact that the end (unfortunately) often justifies the means.

Also you ignore the hardline anti Mandir sentiment here. For the BMAC, the overarching issue is NOT the destruction of the temple, but the destruction of the mosque. They have only one demand - building it back on the same land over the same temples that have been unearthed in excavations. This no compromise stand made them lose the court cases.

 

[Cookie Monster]

What if Hindus insist that Macca was never there & adamantly refuse to hear the Muslims side or even acknowledge it?

If there is scientific evidence to prove that there was and ppl r unwilling to listen then take it to court and let the court decide. There is a procedure to everything.

 

[ranjeet]

Mandir wahin banega. Muslims still have an option to shift their "disputed structure" somewhere else but if they still persist we must take back this offer.

 

[DineshS]

If there is scientific evidence to prove that there was and ppl r unwilling to listen then take it to court and let the court decide. There is a procedure to everything.

You can't switch from legal to moral and then back to legal arguments as per your convenience.
Why should the courts decide on a moral issue?
Does the collective conscience of Muslims disappear when it comes to rights of other religions?

Imagine if Hindus start destroying all Mosques in India, starts building temples in those places and say 'let the courts decide?'

 

[Cookie Monster]

You are ideally right in what you are saying.

But ideal things happen rarely in real life. History is testament to the fact that the end (unfortunately) often justifies the means.

I agree with u...ideal solutions hardly ever work in real life...and this was kind of the reason I brought this whole thing up.

If u read through my posts in this thread u will see that the point I was trying to highlight is the point of view that Congress leaders held during the push for India's freedom(those who were against the partition). They thought that "Hindus/Muslims of India can just coexist like they have for centuries...religion plays no part in state matters...state will protect the rights of everyone".

Isn't that a bit too idealistic? Babri Masjid incident is proof that such idealism doesn't work. It is easy to rile up crowds against each other citing whatever differences(religion, race, color, etc) that shouldn't really matter.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

"Hindus/Muslims of India can just coexist like they have for centuries...religion plays no part in state matters...state will protect the rights of everyone".

Isn't that a bit too idealistic? Babri Masjid incident is proof that such idealism doesn't work. It is easy to rile up crowds against each other citing whatever difference(religion, race, color, etc).

Yes, I think so too. The expectation that Muslims and non Muslims will live happily together did not work out very well here. True, many Muslims (and non Muslims) can, but the faith often comes in conflict (lets be honest here). That creates an identity crisis. This could have been avoided.

Congress should ideally have accepted the Partition immediately post the 1946 elections and mobilized to properly and peacefully exchange populations. Muslims to Pakistan (West and East), and non Muslims to what remained of India/Dom. of India. The massacres could have been prevented, Direct Action Day would never have been called. Property could also be exchanged slowly to resettle people with least damage.

But all this we understand now in hindsight. At that time this was not clear. Nehru genuinely though that Pakistan will collapse because a state ONLY on the basis of religion had never existed in history before.

Even today a proper exchange of populations can help to some extent. I know many people who would love to go to Pakistan but travelling and getting citizenship there is difficult. Plus there is anxiety about leaving, getting jobs, etc etc. But with a more unified management, these problems can be overcome.

 

[Kaushika]

@Kuru @Kaushika @Rajaraja Chola I'm curious to know as why u guys r so hell bent on making the Ram Mandir in the exact same spot as the Babri Masjid.

To clarify, I'm not saying whether it's the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do. Personally I don't care.

U have the right to make a Ram Mandir anywhere u please but why must it be by hurting the sentiments of ur fellow countrymen(Indian Muslims)?

...and please don't bother citing that a Ram Mandir used to exist there before Babri Masjid. Bcuz this was during the time of a ruler(King/Monarch) and not a democracy. It was more of a might is right kinda time. If there was a Hindu monarch destroying a Masjid and erecting a Mandir then I wouldn't ask.

India claims to be a democracy and that's what the whole partition was about. The one nation vs two nation thing. Congress and its leaders were of the view that religion has no part in state matters and all the subjects will be free to practice their religion and their rights will be protected. The Muslims that stayed behind and sided with India were of that view that ur forefathers like Nehru held...so by destroying Babri Masjid and erecting a Mandir in its place...isn't that like saying "u were wrong Indian Muslims and so was Nehru and his folks...we r gonna do whatever we damn well please bcuz we r the majority"?

I'm hoping for a civil response...if u guys feel like u can't do that...just don't bother replying

Dear cookie monster this is a civil responce for you.

 

[Cookie Monster]

You can't switch from legal to moral and then back to legal arguments as per your convenience.
Why should the courts decide on a moral issue?
Does the collective conscience of Muslims disappear when it comes to rights of other religions?

Imagine if Hindus start destroying all Mosques in India, starts building temples in those places and say 'let the courts decide?'

I'm not switching arguments based on convenience. Im just showing u all the various ways that exist other than "might is right".

Also I can see that in ur post u r starting to get a bit emotional citing the collective conscience of Muslims and what not. So perhaps it's better we end this discussion here.

For the record I never said that Babar did good by destroying a Mandir and building a mosque in its place...so there's no need of u telling me "Imagine if Hindus start destroying all Mosques in India". I agree that what Babar did was bad and he shouldn't have. I'm just drawing parallels:

India under a monarch -
Babar destroys a mandir and builds Masjid...that's wrong

A democratic India that champions the idea of protecting the rights of all its citizens -
A mob destroys a Masjid and builds a Mandir...that's somehow right?

Do u see the parallels now? Do u not think there should've been other ways?

 

[utraash]

I agree with everything you said. India, as a democracy can't allow only a temple to be built there. I can't give you my source but from what I understand the Supreme Court is exploring the possibility of allowing both to be built there and has sent feelers to leaders of both communities.

Then that would be epicentre of religious riots.
Nothing less than a temple on that land is acceptable, if this democracy can't provide the rightful justice to our aspirations then " To hell with Demon-cracy ".

Jai shree Ram

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I agree with everything you said. India, as a democracy can't allow only a temple to be built there. I can't give you my source but from what I understand the Supreme Court is exploring the possibility of allowing both to be built there and has sent feelers to leaders of both communities.

This must be a secularist approach to the problem.

In that case, neither the Hindu nor the Muslim will visit the places - except may be to destroy the other.

 

[DineshS]

I'm not switching arguments based on convenience. Im just showing u all the various ways that exist other than "might is right".

Also I can see that in ur post u r starting to get a bit emotional citing the collective conscience of Muslims and what not. So perhaps it's better we end this discussion here.

For the record I never said that Babar did good by destroying a Mandir and building a mosque in its place...so there's no need of u telling me "Imagine if Hindus start destroying all Mosques in India". I agree that what Babar did was bad and he shouldn't have. I'm just drawing parallels:

India under a monarch -
Babar destroys a mandir and builds Masjid...that's wrong

A democratic India that champions the idea that protects the rights of all its citizens -
A mob destroys a Masjid and builds a Mandir

Do u see the parallels now? Do u not think there should've been other ways?

In a perfect world, I agree.

A case can not go on for 150 years and when the obvious is staring in the face for everyone to see.

Masjid was destroyed because the law, Politics, Politicians & Muslims have collectively failed the Hindus. My single question is, how long is too long to wait for justice?
Do you think Hindus waiting for 150 years for courts to decide is too long?!

 

[Kaushika]

This must be a secularist approach to the problem.

In that case, neither the Hindu nor the Muslim will visit the places - except may be to destroy the other.

How are we going to purify ram janmna bhoomi before making Mandir ?

Lol. Kids have the option of Pornhub Slaves to whom? You guys? That's the biggest joke of the day. You guys urself were invaded and converted. Now since I converted "Hey I ruled u for 1000 years" What a false sense of superiorty

Have you ever seen how Iranians, Arabs and Afghans treat or view these people ? I have visited some afghan and persian forum and i must say their attitude toward pakistanis is like of Master and Slave. Even turks called pakistanis **** niggers in this forum and in responce all pakisrani members did is to suck up to him and apologising to him for making him Angry ! ,I am talking about atatworlf.

 

[utraash]

In a perfect world, I agree.

A case can not go on for 150 years and when the obvious is staring in the face for everyone to see.

Masjid was destroyed because the law, Politics, Politicians & Muslims have collectively failed the Hindus. My single question is, how long is too long to wait for justice?
Do you think Hindus waiting for 150 years for courts to decide is too long?!

This matter is beyond the wisdom of our judicial system, best would be by enforcement through passing a law to build Ram temple at centre & UP, rest we will take care of.