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Tribune survey: Online Pakistanis ‘Muslim’ first, ‘Pakistani’ second

Sir
Needs to be Pakistan first then Religion then human.

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

Also getting rid of the Wahabi style and replace with a much more sufi tone.
Sir read about Sufism first than talk about it all the sufis propagated Jihad and also many of them fought battles and were really strict on religion
 
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Sir
Sir read about Sufism first than talk about it all the sufis propagated Jihad and also many of them fought battles and were really strict on religion

This is wahabi talk why am I taking to a fanatic that wants the taliban to take over ?
 
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Pakistan first that includes protecting minorities and radicalization including steps on easing the blasphemy law, in the UAE for Blasphemy you get a fine or some jail time in Pakistan you get killed by your own body guard and a mob cheers.
 
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Pakistan first that includes protecting minorities and radicalization including steps on easing the blasphemy law, in the UAE for Blasphemy you get a fine or some jail time in Pakistan you get killed by your own body guard and a mob cheers.

what was the "sample size"- on which you hv based your opinion?-
Amaze me-
 
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what was the "sample size"- on which you hv based your opinion?-

Amaze me-

So you deny it even happened ? In the gulf countries that follow a stricter interpretation of Islam similar to Pakistan are not that extreme except Saudi Arabia, you get fine or jail in Pakistan you get killed by your own body guard and a mob cheers.
 
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So you deny it even happened ? In the gulf countries that follow a stricter interpretation of Islam similar to Pakistan are not that extreme except Saudi Arabia, you get fine or jail in Pakistan you get killed by your own body guard and a mob cheers.

dont play with words- i hv denied sh1t- i asked you a simple question-
you concluded some thing- surely i think you are not stupid enough to make a conclusion from a one off incident?- where a bodyguard killed the governor and mob cheers- or are you?-
whats the basis of forming your opinion?- what other incidents?- sample size?-
 
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dont play with words- i hv denied sh1t- i asked you a simple question-
you concluded some thing- surely i think you are not stupid enough to make a conclusion from a one off incident?- where a bodyguard killed the governor and mob cheers- or are you?-
whats the basis of forming your opinion?- what other incidents?- sample size?-

Salman Taseer Killed by his own Guard | PKKH.tv
http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...otesters-demand-custody-qadri-s-holy-gun.html

Again pakistan is damaged by the problems the Saudis and Zia have done. it will take a great purge to finally kill this cancer off they cheered his death to.
 
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Salman Taseer Killed by his own Guard | PKKH.tv
http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...otesters-demand-custody-qadri-s-holy-gun.html

Again pakistan is damaged by the problems the Saudis and Zia have done. it will take a great purge to finally kill this cancer off they cheered his death to.

Could'nt agree with you more. Pakistan that I love is being slowly changed into an intolerable place to live, all in the name of Islam. I am convinced that enemies of Pakistan have radicalized Pakistan soceity and the worst enemy of Quaid's Pakistan was the bigot Zia ul Haq and his side kick Hamid Gul.

It is a pity that young Imran Khan also supports the forces that are out to destroy Pakistan society. An article published in News of today is noted below:

Quote

The deconstruction of Islamic thought in Pakistan

S Iftikhar Murshed
Sunday, February 19, 2012


Neither penance nor expiation can cleanse those responsible for the radicalisation of Pakistan. The cancer has spread far and wide across the fabric of the society for which the educated intelligentsia is as much to blame as the semi-literate clerics.

A vivid illustration of this was last week’s imposition of a ban by the Lahore High Court Bar Association on the sale of soft drinks manufactured by Shehzan from the cafeterias of all the subordinate courts because the company is Ahmadi-owned.

Such bigotry is far removed from Allama Iqbal’s belief that man, in spite of his weaknesses, has enormous potential. In The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam he wrote: “Hard his lot and frail his being, like a rose, yet no form of reality is so powerful, so inspiring, and so beautiful as the spirit of man.” The book which is a compilation of his lectures on the need for a re-examination of Islamic philosophy was published in 1930.

Shortly afterwards Iqbal was compelled to abandon a project on ijtihad (reasoning on matters not covered by the Quran or the authentic Traditions) and was called a kafir (infidel) for writing an essay on the subject. This is recounted by the Indian analyst, A G Noorani, in his superbly researched study, “A Liberal Islam in South Asia.”

Pakistan calls itself an Islamic Republic but scores of ulema (religious scholars) who were consulted by the Munir Commission after the anti-Ahmadi disturbances in Lahore in 1953 were not even able to agree on a definition of Islam.

Justice Munir observed: “...if we adopt the definition given by any one of the ulema we remain Muslims according to the view of that alim but kafirs according” to the others. Being pronounced an apostate lies at the heart of religion-motivated violence in Pakistan.

A chilling reminder of this was the video circulated by the Taliban last July showing the brutal murder of captured Pakistani security personnel after they were declared apostates. There have been many other similar incidents but the educated liberals prefer to remain silent either because they are unaware of the fundamental teachings of their religion or are simply too scared to express their views. They have left the interpretation of Islamic doctrine to the clerics.

Though the Quran is emphatic that “there shall be no coercion in matters of faith” Maulana Maududi justified the death penalty for apostasy because this was the opinion of the four major schools of Islamic jurisprudence. He wrote: “We do not compel anyone to come into our religion...But we initially warn whoever would come and go back that this door is not open to come and go.”

Justice Munir, however, believed that the four founding imams of the schools of Islamic thought were expounding law in the abstract because they never held any official position. The law, he said, is best explained when it is applied to the concrete facts of an actual case and this was not possible for the four imams for the reason they were working in a vacuum.

Another former chief justice of Pakistan, Mr S A Rehman, noted that in none of the twenty instances where apostasy is mentioned in the Quran is there any indication of punishment in this world. He had no doubt that apostasy “will be punished only in the hereafter” and questioned the chain of transmission (isnad) in the hadith which proclaims “...kill whoever changes his religion...”

A number of medieval Muslim scholars, for instance, Sufyan al-Thawri (716-778) believed that the hadith cited to justify capital punishment applies only to a political betrayal of the Muslim community rather than for renouncing the religion.

The famous Maliki jurist and poet Abu al-Walid Al-Baji (d. 1081), wrote “...apostasy is a sin which carries no prescribed penalty...” These views were repeated in the writings of the Hanafi exegete, Abu Bakr al-Sarakhsi (d. 1106), who is referred to as “the Hugo Grotius of the Muslims” as well as in the works of the Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyyah (d. 1328) on whose pronouncements Osama bin Laden derived his skewed interpretation of jihad.

Among modern scholars, Wael Hallaq, a professor of Islamic Law at McGill University and one of the world’s foremost authorities of Sunni jurisprudence, is categorical that punishment for apostasy is not derived from the Quran and the death penalty was a later innovation that “does not stand in accord with the deeds of the Prophet.”

The late Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi of the Al Azhar University, the author of a 7,000 page exegesis of the Quran which took him a decade to complete, ruled that a Muslim apostate should be left alone so long as he does not pose a threat.

Similar opinions were expressed by Shaikh Ali Goma’a, the Shafi’i Grand Mufti of Egypt and Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, a one-time designated successor to Ayatollah Khomeini.

Among contemporary South Asian scholars, Javed Ahmad Ghamidi of Pakistan does not accept Maududi’s views and considers apostasy in Islam as a “part of Divine punishment for only those who denied the truth even after clarification in its ultimate form” by the Holy Prophet, hence it was time-bound and no longer punishable. Ghamidi was influenced by his mentor, Amin Ahsan Islahi (1904-1997) and bases his religious philosophy on hermeneutics and ijtihad. He worked closely with Maududi but was expelled from the Jamaat-i-Islami in 1977.

Ghamidi is in accord with the noted Indian scholar Wahiduddin Khan who believes that Maududi had completely inverted the Quranic worldview. He shares Khan’s opinion that the purpose of Islam is not to establish a world order but to serve God which entails help and guidance to humankind in order to enable them to fulfil the obligations for which the religion was revealed. Therefore the question of Muslims, or an Islamic state, perpetually at war with non-believers just does not arise and, furthermore, the establishment of such a state was not even an obligation for Muslims. Death threats compelled Ghamidi to leave Pakistan.

The radicalisation of the Pakistani society has gained alarming momentum. This is evident from the emergence and the burgeoning influence of the Difa-e-Pakistan Council (DPC), an umbrella outfit which includes some 40 parties either belonging to the religious right or at least sympathetic to their rejectionist worldview. Since its rally in Lahore on Dec 18, it has organised demonstrations in Multan, Islamabad and, on Feb 12, in Karachi.

The current DPC chairman is the JUI (S) chief Maulana Samiul Haq, whose madressahs have spawned a sizeable number of the Taliban. Mullah Omar once told me that he considers Samiul Haq his mentor. What is unacceptable is that the DPC is dominated by banned terrorist organisations such as the Lashkar-e-Taiba which changed its name to Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the Sipah-e-Sahaba which now operates as the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat and the Lashkar-e-Jhangvi which retains its own name as is it continues to massacre shias with abandon.

The Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) chief, Imran Khan, who keeps threatening the country with a tsunami, deputed a senior PTI representative, Ejaz Chaudhry, to address the DPC rally in Karachi. But strangely enough the party is also working on a counterterrorism strategy although it has established common cause with those who consider Osama bin Laden a martyr and Mumtaz Qadri a hero.

There is truth after all in the ancient Spanish proverb: “Tell me with whom you walk and I will tell you who you are.”

The deconstruction of the actual teachings of Islam and its substitution by false doctrines and aggressive nationalism is a recipe for disaster. This was Upton Sinclair’s nightmare about his own country when he wrote in the 1930s: “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying the cross.”



The writer is the publisher of Criterion quarterly. Email: iftimurshed@ gmail.com
The deconstruction of Islamic thought in Pakistan - S Iftikhar Murshed

Unquote

Do we want to live in a society where treatment of the minorities and anyone who doesn’t belong to the Deobandi/Wahhabi/Salafi creeds is treated the same way as Jews were by the Hitler’s' Nazis?

Pakistan was never created for this purpose. Both the Quaid and Allama Iqbal, who are without argument, considered Pakistan's founding fathers; were at one time or another labelled ‘Kaffir’ by the Deobandi scholars. Now the same forces have claimed Pakistan for themselves!!!!

I hope against hope that naive Pakistanis who have been duped by the Khilafat lovers and TTP come to their senses and reject all the extremist parties. Despite the fact that Imran Khan is personally better than all other political leaders, I will never vote for the PTI because of Imran’s support for the Taliban and the Jihadis.
 
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