Treatys of Lausanne and 2023

[Killuminati]

There is nothing like "you cant do this in the next 100 of years".

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Well I was more on macroeconomic side with such a union if it were to happen now.. It would totally destroy our country's economy overnight.

But of course if we are talking about a union after like 50 years from now on, then even Id be for creating a middle east union with countries around and there are posts of mine in this forum about such a union and in detail.

So fundamentally speaking I am profoundly not against such an idea.

You're too focused on "the today", which keeps you from formulating strategies for "the tomorrow". Unfortunately this is a common tendency for us Turks as well as the whole Ummah at large.

When I suggested the creation of an Islamic Union akin to the EU, I wasn't saying it would be formed this afternoon. Obviously it's a long process. There would be sets of criteria in multiple distinct categories (economy, justice, cooperation with neighbors, quality of infrastructure, education, heathcare, foreign relations, etc) to be met by a candidate country before it's allowed to join and begin to reap the benefits of membership. It would start small and then grow as more and more members reach that level of development. Remember, Treaty of Rome was signed as far back as 1957. It took the EU a whopping 60 YEARS to become what it is today.

 

[SouI]

You're too focused on "the today", which keeps you from formulating strategies for "the tomorrow". Unfortunately this is a common tendency for us Turks as well as the whole Ummah at large.

When I suggested the creation of an Islamic Union akin to the EU, I wasn't saying it would be formed this afternoon. Obviously it's a long process. There would be sets of criteria in multiple distinct categories (economy, justice, cooperation with neighbors, quality of infrastructure, education, heathcare, foreign relations, etc) to be met by a candidate country before it's allowed to join and begin to reap the benefits of membership. It would start small and then grow as more and more members reach that level of development. Remember, Treaty of Rome was signed as far back as 1957. It took the EU a whopping 60 YEARS to become what it is today.

Fair enough, but you need to remember one thing: Geographics decides everything. Not ideologies.

Muslims will only become less religious over time, so creating a union based on Islam is self-destructive.

We need to create a union based on geography if anything. So Id say only a union among these countries would be probable:

-Turkey
-Israel
-Iran
-KSA
-Syria
-Iraq
-Lebanon
-Kuwait
-Qatar
-Jordan
-Oman
-Yemen
-UAE
-Azerbaijan
-Armenia

These countries would create a sustainable geographic unity which would maximize regional stability!

 

[GlobalMillitary96]

Fair enough, but you need to remember one thing: Geographics decides everything. Not ideologies.

Muslims will only become less religious over time, so creating a union based on Islam is self-destructive.

We need to create a union based on geography if anything. So Id say only a union among these countries would be probable:

-Turkey
-Israel
-Iran
-KSA
-Syria
-Iraq
-Lebanon
-Kuwait
-Qatar
-Jordan
-Oman
-Yemen
-UAE
-Azerbaijan
-Armenia

These countries would create a sustainable geographic unity which would maximize regional stability!

You made some good points however there will NEVER be a union between all those countries. Seriously Armenia, Turkey and Azerbaijan in a union? Or for that matter Iran in a union that has Israel in it?

A more realistic union would be:
Turkey
Iran
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan
Iraq
Syria
Lebanon

It would be like a western-central Asian union

 

[SouI]

You made some good points however there will NEVER be a union between all those countries. Seriously Armenia, Turkey and Azerbaijan in a union? Or for that matter Iran in a union that has Israel in it?

A more realistic union would be:
Turkey
Iran
Azerbaijan
Georgia
Kazakhstan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Kyrgyzstan
Iraq
Syria
Lebanon

It would be like a western-central Asian union

Central asia is sadly separated from us geographically. Id want them with us too, but they dont even want it. They seek unity with Russia's Eurasia.

We need to think of a plan taking "geographics" into account.

Sadly only middle east is left for us and geographically suitible.

If you look at EU members today, youll see that more hostile enemies than Turkey&Azerbaijan-Armenia or Iran-Israel are now in the same union. Even balkans are joining in the same union that is EU.

Over time peace will prevail among Azerbaijan-Armenia and Iran-Israel. It is only a matter of time, mind you we said "not now" but like "50 years from now on".

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Muslims will only become less religious over time, so creating a union based on Islam is self-destructive.

The way I envision it, the Muslim Union wouldn't be any more "based on Islam" than the EU is "based on Christianity". It doesn't even have to be called a Muslim or Islamic union, but rather named after geography like you suggested (Middle East Union, Neareast Commonwealth, etc), or some stated goal (Prosperity Union, etc), or simply the signing location of the treaty that establishes it (Istanbul Peace Pact, Tehran Development Council, Cairo Doctrine, etc).

The idea is to create an economic union of sorts that promotes free trade, economic cooperation and development, free (but regulated) travel, and possibly at a later stage joint defense as well. I'm not saying that we should create some sort of "Ummah Empire" ruled from a central point under sharia law.

 

[Killuminati]

You're too focused on "the today", which keeps you from formulating strategies for "the tomorrow". Unfortunately this is a common tendency for us Turks as well as the whole Ummah at large.

When I suggested the creation of an Islamic Union akin to the EU, I wasn't saying it would be formed this afternoon. Obviously it's a long process. There would be sets of criteria in multiple distinct categories (economy, justice, cooperation with neighbors, quality of infrastructure, education, heathcare, foreign relations, etc) to be met by a candidate country before it's allowed to join and begin to reap the benefits of membership. It would start small and then grow as more and more members reach that level of development. Remember, Treaty of Rome was signed as far back as 1957. It took the EU a whopping 60 YEARS to become what it is today.

England escaped from the sinking ship..

 

[Pax Ottomana]

England escaped from the sinking ship..

England and English companies actually wanted to stay and they fought very hard for it. But the people were apparently too sick of watching the Germans make more money out of the EU than the Brits did. So the referendum concluded in favor of leaving, but barely with a very narrow 1.89% margin.

Islamic countries can (and should) learn from the mistakes of the EU and improve upon it when it's time to form a similar organization of their own.

 

[Mr.Department]

the Germans make more money out of the EU than the Brits did

Don't let Bismarck hear it

 

[Kiryu]

A Western Eurasia FTA should cover most of the economic needs without creating an EU like Union.
There is the Turkic Council, Black Sea Economic Cooperation etc that cover political and economic issues. As usual though members don't take them serious enough to achieve the goals they set out for themselves.
Identity based Unions are too idealistic for my tastes.
Instead we should focus on what it is we actually want. If it's common space to do business then we need a FTA between members, political bodies to simplify and harmonise laws. To do business you need a predictable environment.
It all falls back on political will. Turkey and Azerbaijan probably have the best chance at creating a common economic space. An Azerbaijani from Lankaran should find it just as simple to set up a business in Izmir as he would in Baku or a Turk from Balikesir should expect the same procedure for expanding his business into Baku as he would if he was to set up shop in Istanbul.
There are always nice rhetoric but too many protected interests and touchiness prevent it from happening. Having like minded rulers who share the vision will be crucial.

 

[Kiryu]

Turkey gives economic incentives to Azerbaijan exclave
Economy Minister Nihat Zeybekci says Turkey will buy products from Nakhchivan like it was buying from inside of Turkey

Economy Minister Nihat Zeybekci on Saturday announced several economic privileges for the Nakhchivan Autonomous Republic of Azerbaijan, including an incentive to businessmen to sell their products to Turkey without taxes.

He added Turkey will buy several products from Nakhchivan like it was buying them from inside of Turkey.

"We will make the buying of 43 products from Nakhchivan like it was trade from inside of Turkish borders."

http://aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turkey-gives-economic-incentives-to-azerbaijan-exclave/950355

 

[HannibalBarca]

In 6 years ...not a slighty answer and you get an off-topic masterpiece...
And after that.. ppl ask... what will happen in 2023...

The answer is...nothing...since The treaty of Lausanne has no expiration date... it's a contract...that both side, signed and should respect it...nothing more, nothing less... . A Peace treaty, sort of...

So, if you want peace, respect it...otherwise... you know what to do...

 

[Muhammed45]

In 6 years ...not a slighty answer and you get an off-topic masterpiece...
And after that.. ppl ask... what will happen in 2023...

The answer is...nothing...since The treaty of Lausanne has no expiration date... it's a contract...that both side, signed and should respect it...nothing more, nothing less... . A Peace treaty, sort of...

So, if you want peace, respect it...otherwise... you know what to do...

So the Zionist teaches us about peace but in the end of his statement says you know what to do.

This agreement is signed to humiliate Ottoman empire, there is a similarity between the imposed treaty on German empire after WW1 and the one imposed on Ottomans. I know that it is like a fire under the ashes, in fact these treaties with their obscure conditions and humiliation imposed on the defeated side, can cause a major war after a century or some a few decades. Demonized Hitler tried to revive German empire by invading Poland, he signed a contract with Zionists, assured the strength of his army and following his own ambition, set whole EU on fire and the bastard of middle east was born respectively so called Israel, considering Hitler's aid to create Israel before starting of WW2. West wants Turkey to play the same role, set middle east on fire and weaken both Turkey and middle eastern countries and in the end it is the same western powers that would walk on the dead bodies of Turks and middle eastern folks.

The only thing that can save us is Islam and Turkish Muslims in majority, and you Zionist piece of crap, will never see death of poor Muslims. I saw once you were talking about a war between UAE and KSA so that we could see who is the future empire of P-gulf region. Thankfully you exposed yourself, at least i know who you are... in the end, have fun

 

[HannibalBarca]

So the Zionist teaches us about peace but in the end of his statement says you know what to do.

This agreement is signed to humiliate Ottoman empire, there is a similarity between the imposed treaty on German empire after WW1 and the one imposed on Ottomans. I know that it is like a fire under the ashes, in fact these treaties with their obscure conditions and humiliation imposed on the defeated side, can cause a major war after a century or some a few decades. Demonized Hitler tried to revive German empire by invading Poland, he signed a contract with Zionists, assured the strength of his army and following his own ambition, set whole EU on fire and the bastard of middle east was born respectively so called Israel, considering Hitler's aid to create Israel before starting of WW2. West wants Turkey to play the same role, set middle east on fire and weaken both Turkey and middle eastern countries and in the end it is the same western powers that would walk on the dead bodies of Turks and middle eastern folks.

The only thing that can save us is Islam and Turkish Muslims in majority, and you Zionist piece of crap, will never see death of poor Muslims. I saw once you were talking about a war between UAE and KSA so that we could see who is the future empire of P-gulf region. Thankfully you exposed yourself, at least i know who you are... in the end, have fun

I think you lost... or can't understand a sentence... still thinking...
And please stop giving me " statement I never did"...

Best regards,

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The main question is, will this treaty end after hundred years, in 2023?

The beneficial points for Turkey:

1. Turkey can dig, drill and use oil from own land.
2. Turkey can tax every international ship travelling through Bosphorous.

@HAKIKAT please shed some light on this.

That treaty is like a thick seal on the soul of the Turkish folks!!!!! It's being etched off by one atomic layer at a time!!! It'll take little more time!!! One of the most important aspects is to get rid of proxies among men and machines in the defense sector, which is also successfully progressing forward....