Traitors of Pakistan

[313ghazi]

Not really

A different point of view I can accept and appreciate

Disloyalty or a wanton desire to see Pakistan fail or fcuk up with open support for anti Pakistan elements likw PTM is intolerable

The liberals in Pakistan have crossed a red line and they need to be ISI'd

I'd argue your use of the term liberal for these Pakistan haters is unfair. There are plenty of people in Pakistan with a liberal mindset who love the country and do a lot of work for it. For example Edhi saab we pretty liberal. Some mullahs (Khadim Rizvi for example) even suggest "all he ever did was save peoples b4stards". Up and down the country there are NGO's run by liberal aunties, the type who wear dresses 3 sizes too small, don't wear dupatta, have terrible hair like Shireen Mazari but work tirelessly for other people in this country.

As Muslims we need to be careful with our words.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Tomorrow they will say PTM is also right.. if PTM is right, then why we fought TTP?

According to many of them they are right,don't look for their langauge,check their actions.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Disloyalty or a wanton desire to see Pakistan fail or fcuk up with open support for anti Pakistan elements likw PTM is intolerable

Again, instead of attacking ALL liberals, how about we agree that only those who call for the destruction of Pakistan (like Taqi does) are un-patriotic?

I mean I understand criticism of the country, its laws, of the Army, even if it's not 'constructive'. Such criticism, is still, at its core, an expression of a lack of satisfaction with the status quo and an expression of a desire for change, which we should respect even if we don't agree with it.

HOWEVER, when people like Taqi advocate for other countries to militarily attack Pakistan, when people like Haqqani advocate for international sanctions on Pakistan, when the TTP/BLA/BRA declares war against the Pakistani State, that is where we need to draw the line. Yes, Pakistan has problems, but calling for sanctions and war against Pakistan, calling for the destruction/division of Pakistan is unacceptable and unpatriotic.

 

[SQ8]

The last time such broad strokes of “traitors” was used; we ended up with Bangladesh

 

[Maarkhoor]

The last time such broad strokes of “traitors” was used; we ended up with Bangladesh

Our mistake proved blessing for us even year before 1971 military decided to let Bangladesh independent country.

Reference:
Gen Yahya announces it at international visit.

 

[SQ8]

Our mistake proved blessing for us even year before 1971 military decided to let Bangladesh independent country.

Reference:
Gen Yahya announces it at international visit.

Military surrendered. Yahya and Niazi wwre too busy in orgies to do anything about it.

The traitor call could have prevented an out of box solution to the issue and perhaps a less than humiliating exit.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Our mistake proved blessing for us even year before 1971 military decided to let Bangladesh independent country.

Reference:
Gen Yahya announces it at international visit.

You're missing the point. How is yet more internal strife going to be 'good? Is there another physical part of Pakistan that you think is 'disposable'?

Like it or not, we're stuck with what we have and we need to take everyone along, and that means everyone (liberals and conservatives) who are not calling for the destruction of Pakistan along the lines I mentioned in my post above. Outside of the extreme liberal and conservative fringe, respect the differences of opinion and engage with one another with civility. Discussion, debate, compromise and evolution is essential for any society, especially one as diverse as Pakistan.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Just a Passing by Traveler, stopped here to read comments ..

the Only thing i would like to contribute here is that both Mullah's and those Goriya's Taqi's are wrong .. Let Allah be the Judge between us when we die .

The last time such broad strokes of “traitors” was used; we ended up with Bangladesh

I respect you and your knowledge but you can't compare this with the events of the creation of Bangladesh , in 71's bhutto reject a democratically elected leader, and declare a entire race as Traitor , here people are calling certain individuals Traitors . They means nothing to the General public of Pakistan who are too stuck in Roti Kapra aur Makaan .

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Oh mere bhi who is not traitor in Pakistan
All politicians traitors, all Mullahs traitors, All media personnel traitors . All liberal traitors, All extremist traitors . All ex military dictator traitors

kohe bacha ha fatwe baazi se?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

here people are calling certain individuals Traitors .

While that might be the intention, when the term 'liberal' is used, it covers more than individuals like Taqi or Haqqani, it also covers people like me.

It's like saying 'all conservative Muslims are terrorists' because of the TTP or Daesh or AQ.

We need to be careful with our language and not use such broad terminology that ostracizes a significant number of Pakistanis, who happen to be liberal, but don't subscribe to the extremist views of Taqi and Haqqani.

 

[YeBeWarned]

While that might be the intention, when the term 'liberal' is used, it covers more than individuals like Taqi or Haqqani, it also covers people like me.

It's like saying 'all conservative Muslims are terrorists' because of the TTP or Daesh or AQ.

We need to be careful with our language and not use such broad terminology that ostracizes a significant number of Pakistanis, who happen to be liberal, but don't subscribe to the extremist views of Taqi and Haqqani.

That is why I say both parties are wrong I neither like mullahs not these gorya and taqi types shah se zayda shah ke wafadaar .
Alot of these people often use disgusting language against our religious deities and for that they are in their right to call them traitors , but without incitement for violence .

 

[BATMAN]

This is real face of Zarvan. He has skills to twist things but he always talked against our army not only musharaf. During 2010-2013 He never mourns on death of our army soldiers but taliban. He spread venom day & night against our brave soldiers when we were busy to eliminate terrorists. View attachment 552468

As i said Zarvan was launched by defence.pk as bogey man, to prove certain propaganda.

 

[Crusher]

You can have whatever opinion you want about @Zarvan - he is right. Every one of those in that picture is a traitor.

I wish we were more like Israel, Russia and Iran, they know how to travel around the world and pick off their traitors. In Pakistan it actually pays to be a traitor, the more brazenly you declare hatred towards the state, the more the state cowers before you - afraid of not appearing liberal in front of it's white masters.

The kind for freedom and liberty that people have in pakistan to badmouth their country, culture and people is unparalleled to the rest of the world at this moment. There are hundreds of discrepancies in germany but I have never seen germans ridiculing their own country, culture or people. It is a special trait that is only flourishing in pakistan and it all started in Musharraf illegitimate regime with his 'enlightened moderation' sh1tty doctrine when he brought people with mental disorders to spread his envisioned "enlightened moderation". I strongly believe musharrf should be given capital punishment for his crimes against pakistani society, the list of his crimes is endless.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

While that might be the intention, when the term 'liberal' is used, it covers more than individuals like Taqi or Haqqani, it also covers people like me.

It's like saying 'all conservative Muslims are terrorists' because of the TTP or Daesh or AQ.

We need to be careful with our language and not use such broad terminology that ostracizes a significant number of Pakistanis, who happen to be liberal, but don't subscribe to the extremist views of Taqi and Haqqani.

Some turds here seem to get gratification out of shouting out 'libturd' at every post. The issue with HH or Taqi is not liberalism. There is nothing intrinsic to liberalism that contradicts nationalism. HH and Taqi are anti-nationalism and can be called 'traitors' for going against their country.

As you stated TTP and many other such groups that carry the banner of Islam [not the green/white crescent and star of the nation state of Pakistan] and consider themselves as pious Muslims have done far, far more damage to Pakistan then the so called 'libturds' which I am happy to be so called. Actually depending on how your interpret it but a very pious Muslim could actually find himself going against nationalism and thus from the POV of Pakistani state be a traitor.

• Territorial ~ Let's be clear about this. Nationalism and in this case Pakistan nationalisms means owing loyalty to a state that has specific boundaries that international law recognizes. Pakistani nationalism thus is terriotorial. Meaning those born or of origin to the territory limited to the boundaries of Pakistan is a Pakistani national. They could be athiest, Sikh, Christian, Buddist, Hindu or Muslim.
  
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• Universal ~ Islamic concept of ummah is a global brotherhood that knows no borders or boundaries made by men. Those those pious Muslim who chose to identify with this concept are contradicting Pakistani nationalism as they are placing religion above nation. In this sense they are actually traitors to the Pakistani state.

I bet all the mutts who croal 'libturd' never stop to think this nuanced but profound point. For instance your a Pakistan Army soldier and next to you is a Pakistani Sikh soldier, a Pakistani Christian soldier and you have a tangle with Afghan soldiers who are all Muslims. From purely ummah and Islamic POV you should side with the Muslims [who happen to be Afghan nationals] but the truth is such a scenario would expose the nation versus nation argumant and Muslim versus Muslim. As we know the PA soldier will stand by his fellow PA soldiers that are fighting for the Pakistani nation state. If it was Islam they would refuse to fight against other Muslims and join them instead of standing by non-Muslims.

There is contradiction in the very concepts that Islamists espouse.

Global Ummah versus territorial nation states

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is nothing intrinsic to liberalism that contradicts nationalism. HH and Taqi are anti-nationalism and can be called 'traitors' for going against their country.

I like that term better, “anti-nationalists”: it covers both religious extremists and liberal extremists.