Torpedoes of Pak Navy

[Penguin]

One can hope.
But what is the reason behind not producing torpedoes at home?

See #44 https://defence.pk/threads/torpedoes-of-pak-navy.453521/page-4#post-8778444

 

[Moon]

See #44 https://defence.pk/threads/torpedoes-of-pak-navy.453521/page-4#post-8778444

That's sad, maybe one day we will commence a project before ever hitting a rough patch.

 

[Penguin]

That's sad, maybe one day we will commence a project before ever hitting a rough patch.

There's nothing inherently wrong with buying

 

[Moon]

There's nothing inherently wrong with buying

Strength through self reliance.
Plus loss of excessive currency. A Torpedo costs anywhere between a million or so. In house production will lower the costs. And if we export, even better.

 

[Penguin]

Strength through self reliance.
Plus loss of excessive currency. A Torpedo costs anywhere between a million or so. In house production will lower the costs. And if we export, even better.

If all nations strive for self-reliance, trade stops. It is a fallacy that in house production will lower costs: the cost of development is left out of the equation. This has to be spread over the production run, which will inevitably be smaller than that of a purchased weapon.

 

[Moon]

If all nations strive for self-reliance, trade stops. It is a fallacy that in house production will lower costs: the cost of development is left out of the equation. This has to be spread over the production run, which will inevitably be smaller than that of a purchased weapon.

A nation like Pakistan. Which stands on a pivotal point in the region, is a regional power and the backbone for stability in the region, cannot rely on borrowed strength. To take out the competition, firstly start production in house, then pump goods into Europe at a far lesser cost.
And not everyone is producing weapons are they?
Plus we don't have restrictions put onto us from the West like China or Russia.

 

[Penguin]

A nation like Pakistan. Which stands on a pivotal point in the region, is a regional power and the backbone for stability in the region, cannot rely on borrowed strength. To take out the competition, firstly start production in house, then pump goods into Europe at a far lesser cost.
And not everyone is producing weapons are they?
Plus we don't have restrictions put onto us from the West like China or Russia.

Well, you can't afford to be doing every system domestically, it simply is too expensive. Name me the Asian arms producers that are pumping (defence) goods into Europe. It simply isn't happening.

 

[Moon]

Well, you can't afford to be doing every system domestically, it simply is too expensive. Name me the Asian arms producers that are pumping (defence) goods into Europe. It simply isn't happening.

Of course we can't make everything, but several crucial things need to be made within the country. The primary reason why Asian arm producers are not present in Europe is because they are either barred from entering European market, or they make European and American products in a JV. We could easily sell our weapons to nations like Romania, which posses weaponry that is barred from maintenance by Russia. Especially there ageing Kilo Class submarine and several other weapons like the MiGs or older frigates.

 

[Penguin]

Of course we can't make everything, but several crucial things need to be made within the country. The primary reason why Asian arm producers are not present in Europe is because they are either barred from entering European market, or they make European and American products in a JV. We could easily sell our weapons to nations like Romania, which posses weaponry that is barred from maintenance by Russia. Especially there ageing Kilo Class submarine and several other weapons like the MiGs or older frigates.

Ain't going to happen.. There are plenty of capable partners in Europe to service old frigates, MIGs and even Kilo's (e.g. Poland, Czech, Slovaks, etc) I'm done discussing this

 

[Gryphon]

The 43X2 is not on ships with the ASTT, only the modernized configuration is able to fire the boors wire guided Torp.

Sir, what do you mean by modernized configuration?

AFAIK, PNS Badr (now retired) and Shahjahan had 2x triple Mk 32 torpedo launchers (for Mk 46). Tariq, Khaibar, Tippu Sultan and Babur (retd.) had quadruple Tp 43x2 wire guided torpedo (export version of Tp 45).

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir, what do you mean by modernized configuration?

AFAIK, PNS Badr (now retired) and Shahjahan had 2x triple Mk 32 torpedo launchers (for Mk 46). Tariq, Khaibar, Tippu Sultan and Babur (retd.) had quadruple Tp 43x2 wire guided torpedo (export version of Tp 45).

The triple launcher was called ASTT in RN service. It fires LWT such as MK46. Non-modernized ships are the Type-21s that were not installed (attempted) with ATAS from Thomspon Marconi, DA08 Radar from Signaal, NAJIR EOS, and Ly60 SAM from China. For air defence, the modernized configuration was to receive DS30B gun. Only one ship got the two guns installed on the Aft quarter deck. The other modernized ships, DS30B integrator plates were installed port and starboard but guns were never installed. I believe it was called Project Horizon. Sea Cat launchers were removed. These three, Babar, Badr, Shahjahan were later upgraded with C3 from Sweden, Harpoon Launchers and Phalanx. All ships's sonars 184 were repaired / overhauled indigenously.

 

[Gryphon]

The triple launcher was called ASTT in RN service. It fires LWT such as MK46. Non-modernized ships are the Type-21s that were not installed (attempted) with ATAS from Thomspon Marconi, DA08 Radar from Signaal, and Ly60 SAM from China. For air defence, the modernized configuration was to receive DS30B gun. Only one ship got the two guns installed on the Aft quarter deck. The other modernized ships, DS30B integrator plates were installed port and starboard but guns were never installed. I believe it was called Project Horizon. Sea Cat launchers were removed. These three, Babar, Badr, Shahjahan were later upgraded with C3 from Sweden, Harpoon Launchers and Phalanx. All ships's sonars 184 were repaired / overhauled indigenously.

So, Badr and Shahjahan retained the STWS-1 2xtriple torpedo tubes from the RN. And Babur, Tariq, Khaibar and Tippu Sultan got Bofors wire guided Tp 45 after modernization.

Badr, Shahjahan and Babur were installed with Harpoon removed from the Gearings, and later, Tariq, Khaibar and Tippu Sultan got the now obsolete LY-60 launcher (6 cell).

Thanks, this provides a better picture. Did the Bofors 400mm provide better performance over Mk 46? The former is still in Swedish service and Saab is developing an advanced version, called Tp 47, again 400mm and wire guided. Most likely, those can be used from the existing torpedo tubes and no replacement will be required.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

So, Badr and Shahjahan retained the STWS-1 2xtriple torpedo tubes from the RN. And Babur, Tariq, Khaibar and Tippu Sultan got Bofors wire guided Tp 45 after modernization.

Badr, Shahjahan and Babur were installed with Harpoon removed from the Gearings, and later, Tariq, Khaibar and Tippu Sultan got the now obsolete LY-60 launcher (6 cell).

Thanks, this provides a better picture. Did the Bofors 400mm provide better performance over Mk 46? The former is still in Swedish service and Saab is developing an advanced version, called Tp 47, again 400mm and wire guided. Most likely, those can be used from the existing torpedo tubes and no replacement will be required.

43X2 Torp is a strange design, not like the STWS Mk1. The Torpedo comes packed in the tube and wire spindle, and just gets attached to the deck hard point made for it.

Regarding your question of performance, for a submariner, there is only submarines, and targets. A Surface ship with a LW wire guided torpedo can only be firing at a toothless submarine, or the sub would have taken the platform out long before it was even detected.

 

[maxpayne]

So, Badr and Shahjahan retained the STWS-1 2xtriple torpedo tubes from the RN. And Babur, Tariq, Khaibar and Tippu Sultan got Bofors wire guided Tp 45 after modernization.

Badr, Shahjahan and Babur were installed with Harpoon removed from the Gearings, and later, Tariq, Khaibar and Tippu Sultan got the now obsolete LY-60 launcher (6 cell).

Thanks, this provides a better picture. Did the Bofors 400mm provide better performance over Mk 46? The former is still in Swedish service and Saab is developing an advanced version, called Tp 47, again 400mm and wire guided. Most likely, those can be used from the existing torpedo tubes and no replacement will be required.

Yes Tp43, 45 and 47 have similar physical characteristics except fire control system etc. Last year when I visited SAAB underwater in Sweden, I mistook 47 for 43 in first glance. As far as I know swedish navy has phased out 43 and currently using 45. They also have plans to shift to 47.

 

[maxpayne]

43X2 Torp is a strange design, not like the STWS Mk1. The Torpedo comes packed in the tube and wire spindle, and just gets attached to the deck hard point made for it.

Regarding your question of performance, for a submariner, there is only submarines, and targets. A Surface ship with a LW wire guided torpedo can only be firing at a toothless submarine, or the sub would have taken the platform out long before it was even detected.

43 gives us flexibility in different ways. We have another option than Mk46. This torpedo is very maintenance friendly. Wire guided feature is another plus.
Yes LWTs has less range than HWT but sometimes ships take cover of an island or shore or perhaps shallow waters to avoid submarines and still they can fire LWT. Furthermore, it is always better to have something rather than nothing. These are the reasons, LWT is always installed on ships