Top US Air Force General surprised how poorly Russian Air Force has performed

[kingQamaR]

Russia’s limited air power is still superior to that of Ukraine, and there are several instances where it contributed to significant victories

 

[Hack-Hook]

US lost Korean war as well because US side basically took over and controlled the entire Korean peninsula, all of it before China entered the war and pushed US back to half way line before both sides agreed on ceasefire and stop.

someone may say USA started from a small peninsula in Korean war and ended with half of Korea

 

[Hack-Hook]

The ultimate goal for US in Vietnam is to stop Communism from spreading to other South East Asia country, namely Philippine, Malaysia and Singapore. The US did that by eliminate enough of Vietnamese Communist power on the ground, while Tet is seen as a major turning point to the American war in Vietnam, but Tet also achieve one thing that is very important in term of Military Strategic, that is the US completely destroyed the North Vietnamese capability to wage a conventional war.

what about south Vietnam , Cambodia and Myanmar ,Laos

However, that also mean Communist in Vietnam would not have enough power to push thru outside their geographical location, and hence stopping the spread to Philippine, Malaysia and Singapore.

communists in Vietnam was more successful against china than USA against china

Take Korean war for example. If US really fought like they fight WW2, and win the Korean war for South Korea, do you think they would have the same relationship with South Korea now? Imagine a unified Korea. facing off an occupied Japan. Which no longer have North Korea as a threat. But will also (still do) see Japan as enemy, do you think a Unified Korea would have any US foothold in it?

they would have seen china as a threat

 

[Brainsucker]

YOU'RE NOT ALONE IN FIRST GULF WAR BUT PACK OF WOLVES ATTACK IRAQ

Iraq had different situation than Ukraine today. We can compare Ukraine with Vietnam war, but not Iraq. Because Iraq was already being surrounded and besieged by US prior their glorious invasion in early 2000. Iraq situation was the same as Mariupol siege.

The situation in Ukraine is similar to North Vietnam where they got endless supply from their another border. You can throw endless Cruise Missiles to their land, but as long as they can restock, those cruise missiles are just a waste.

 

[gambit]

US airforce underperformed in Vietnam too then as well since the USA lost over 3000 fixed wing aircraft in Vietnam war. The USAF wasn't able to help the US army and marines much then as well since the losses are closer to 100,000 killed than it is to 0... over 50,000 recorded killed, closer to 60,000 and captured and injured in the hundreds of thousands.

Russian airforce is underperforming in some perspective and performing well in other perspectives. How does a person choose to frame it for themselves?

I'm not on Russia's side with this but the propaganda and nonsense being parroted by the west is laugh worthy. You guys achieve nothing with lies and propaganda, especially believing your own propaganda. War is hard, that's it. Russians suffers losses. Ukrainian losses in comparison would be similar to Vietnam vs USA in losses. If USA were to fight Russia only conventionally, Russian propaganda would be full of how hard USA is losing and vice versa. But US cannot fight Russia. Will not fight, cannot fight. So save your chest thumping and big talk. Western weapons sent to Ukraine hasn't been able to stop the Russians from capturing and controlling MASSIVE territorial gains. They are doing this without carpet bombing. If you want to stop the Russians, go in and fight! then volunteer if your western country knows they will get STOMPED by Russia if they went in formally.

It's hilarious how all these western nations talk while they aren't in the war about how they would beat Russia and how their stupid articles say this or that about Russians but then they themselves will not fight and cannot fight. Go in to fight the Russians directly and stop their invasion. Then we can really see beyond cheap little articles saying how weak Russia is and how western weakness really is.

It is all exactly as pathetic and silly as North Korea saying how they will beat USA by showing them USA soldiers being captured and or killed by Iranians and Venezuela... (actually happened) they say Iran and Venezuela are both stronger than USA and USA would get killed by Iran or Venezuela in a war. That's how the west is like (like a North Korea in propaganda and silliness).

You need to stop. You do not know what you are talking about in regards to airpower in the Vietnam War.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Brown was asked if the Air Force is doing any “lessons learned” analysis of Russia’s campaign in Ukraine, and he said that effort is ongoing.

“How we would do it,” Brown said, is to attack air defenses and establish air superiority over a broad area of operations where U.S. ground forces were operating.

“That’s not the way the Russians have operated,” though, he said. Russian forces have kept their air forces “more closely [to] where they had ground superiority. So, based on their doctrine, they’ve stuck … where their ground forces are, and don’t venture very far from them.”

The Ukrainians have been successful in denying air superiority to Russia in part by not keeping their air defenses “static,” Brown said.

“They stay fairly dynamic, which made it more difficult” for Russia to find and destroy Ukrainian air defense systems.

“If you can’t do dynamic targeting very well, you’re going to have a hard time,” he said. This is “something we do, I think, … really well. And something we’ll continue to work on.”

He also expressed surprise that Russia is having such a hard time countering Ukrainian air defenses, noting that they are Russian-made systems.

“They’re going against their own” system, he said. “They should know how to defeat them.”

This is the Best Time to Take Risks, Brown Says | Air & Space Forces Magazine

CSAF Gen. Brown: The Air Force wants to balance readiness and future capabilities, and the current situation offers favorable conditions.

www.airforcemag.com

It absolutely doesn't matter.
It DOES NOT MATTER.
Putin has squeezed his pound of flesh,
he is getting paid, as are the rest of OPEC,
Biden is down to scrapping fuel taxes just to keep afloat,
and he has had to swallow his pride and now will visit and beg KSA for oil relief.

That is what matters.

 

[serenity]

You need to stop. You do not know what you are talking about in regards to airpower in the Vietnam War.

And this is how Russian military people probably think about all these Western "experts" opinions. West should also shut up or sign up. You guys also don't know what you're talking about in regards to airpower in Ukraine. No difference. Except one side sure thinks they are right about everything.

There is nuance to everything and like there is nuance to how USA lost over 3000 fixed wing aircraft in Vietnam, surely some nuance to Russia losing their equipment and how the Russians are doing this war. I'm not commenting on the war itself but the West has been filled with so much "Russia is weak" nonsense in the last few months it's remarkable this is coming from countries who dare not get involved with Russia directly.

Yeah yeah sending weapons etc but USSR sent weapons to Vietnam too. Is it accurate to say that USSR could have destroyed and stomped USA in war since USA "lost so badly" in Vietnam? The difference between the two is that Russians have managed to control territory. We don't know if they can maintain it but USA left Vietnam without control of one inch square.

 

[Broccoli]

Now you know why Russia launched huge propaganda campaing against F-35 in Finland few years ago. Russians cannot control air space of Ukraine what has much poorer/smaller air force so if they ever have to against modern western fighters their pilots will be massacred.

 

[MH.Yang]

The biggest problem of the Russian army, including the Russian air force, in the Ukrainian war was the lack of mobilization capacity.

In the second Iraq war, there were 180000 UN troops and only 70000 Iraqi troops.

In the Ukrainian war, Ukraine now has at least 800000 troops on the front line, and Russia has no more than 200000 troops participating in the war. Because of the lack of military strength, the Russian air force could not get enough intelligence and security from the ground forces. Because of the shortage of troops, the Russian air force needs to complete many tasks that do not belong to them.

Russia has a population of 140million. In such a long preparation period, only 200000 troops have been mobilized. This mobilization capability is not only far lower than that of the Soviet Union, but even worse than that of Czarist Russia.

 

[jhungary]

what about south Vietnam , Cambodia and Myanmar ,Laos

What about them?

communists in Vietnam was more successful against china than USA against china

Good for them, as I said, the US goal is to stop Communism from spreading to Philippine, Malaysia, Singapore and all the way to Australia. The US has done that part and this is a fact, there were communist insurgency in all those Philippine, Malaysia and even Indonesia, imagine if US had not destroyed the network in Vietnam by actually decimated their manpower and resource, those place would have a tough fight to quell those rebellion.

As I said, back in the days, whatever happened in China is not of a concern, the US was going to be allies with China (that's the entire point for Nixon visit) sure, things turn sour after 1989, but back in 1960s and 1970s, China is not the concern of US, USSR is. That had not change until USSR dissolved in 1991.

they would have seen china as a threat

No. They would have seen it as allies. See the response above.

One more thing, do you know how many political games and economically games US been playing with USSR to have China decamp from them?

 

[jhungary]

Yeah yeah sending weapons etc but USSR sent weapons to Vietnam too. Is it accurate to say that USSR could have destroyed and stomped USA in war since USA "lost so badly" in Vietnam? The difference between the two is that Russians have managed to control territory. We don't know if they can maintain it but USA left Vietnam without control of one inch square.

That's where you get the entire situation wrong.

Set aside whether or nor Russia can continue to occupy their territories (Most analyst from East and West both think they cannot and that's evidenced even now when the invasion phase is on going, there are already partisan action behind Russian line) Let's set that aside for a second.

US is playing an "Away" game with no intention to hold any of the territories. The only way to actually hold it is do what Russia is doing, that's annex them into US territories. If US wanted, they would have annexed Vietnam as part of US, but the reason will be, why? It's not easy to support troop and civilian from 16000km away, you need to have constant force to prop up the state, on the other hand, if US would have annexed Vietnam, what's going to happen? They are all going to migrate to the US. I mean, do you really think Vietnamese would fight for Vietnam if they are all granted Residence in US?

On the other hand, Ukraine is different, Russia is trying to Annex Ukraine, and both Ukraine and Europe are basically at the same place. It's not like Russia is trying to annex Georgia or Vietnam, which is closer to Turkey than EU, this time the support is not from 10,000 miles away, instead it's from Bordering country in Poland, Romania and Bulgaria. This war is a completely different ball game than US fighting in Vietnam, because all parties involved are located in more or less the same area, which make supporting that effort easier, I mean if we move the entire Afghanistan to Ukraine , we will probably still be fighting in Afghanistan, because for the European, Afghanistan is not some far away place that they don't really give a shit about, it's in their backyards, things are going to be different. Same thing if we move Vietnam to Mexico, this is going to be the same because it's next to US, they cannot pretend they can't see it.

 

[WotTen]

I think the Russians are deliberately not revealing their true capabilities because they know that every move is being watched by potential future adversaries. They have decided that certain amount of losses are acceptable but obviously they can't say that in public.

They also believe that time is on their side. The Russian public will tolerate economic hardships during war, but the Western public will rebel sooner or later as the economic effects hit home. US midterm elections are also round the corner.

 

[reflecthofgeismar]

Oh my. Oh look how tough the US air force was. Got its butt kicked by rag tag Taliban. Ooh.

Childish.
Taliban or as a whole - Afghans - can be "lucky" (unnecessary colonial skirmish(es)) that Murricans fought, except low %tage - with both hands tied behind their back and didn't want destroy Afghanistan as a country and her people.
Americans need to learn that not everybody is fit for "American Way of Life".
"Nation building" made by America worked in Germany, Japan, (South)Korea and even to Vietnam, to a certain point.
Look where Vietnam (which was fought much more brutal) is today, look where Afghanistan and Iraq are.
Fact is, Afghan population nearly doubled during US colonial adventure.
If they would have fought like young RF in Chechnya, Afghan population would have shrink massively.

 

[jhungary]

I think the Russians are deliberately not revealing their true capabilities because they know that every move is being watched by potential future adversaries. They have decided that certain amount of losses are acceptable but obviously they can't say that in public.

They also believe that time is on their side. The Russian public will tolerate economic hardships during war, but the Western public will rebel sooner or later as the economic effects hit home. US midterm elections are also round the corner.

That's very naive thinking.

If you don't want to show your true capability, then you don't go fight in a war. You lose a war that way, and when you are the aggressor, then why bother starting a war in the first place?? To do that just because you can do that?

Also, it's not like they are hiding their "Best" and only uses some dumb folks as cannon fodder (Although they did use LNR and DNR people as meat shield and send most of the Russian minority to the frontline) There are nothing in Russian arsenal for their disposal and Russian had not use in this war. They are using VDV, Spetsnaz, Elite Tank army, and Guard army hell, they even lost their flag ship of their entire Black sea fleet over a country which have no Navy. If these are "hiding" their true capability, then either they are doing a very good job on making people believe their incompetence, or they are really this incompetence.

On the other hand, US election is largely irrelevant, because supporting Ukraine is bi-partisan, this is not going to change in 6 months when the mid term comes, it may in 2024 when we elect a new President. but then chances of a change is not great because if this war last that long, this is going to be a talking point for 2024 presidential election. You can even see how Fox and Sky News (especially Sky News Australia, they are almost Australian Branch of Republican) report goes anti-Russia even with them supporting Trump. That is not going to change the landscape of political support for Ukraine.

 

[Indos]

Good for them, as I said, the US goal is to stop Communism from spreading to Philippine, Malaysia, Singapore and all the way to Australia. The US has done that part and this is a fact, there were communist insurgency in all those Philippine, Malaysia and even Indonesia, imagine if US had not destroyed the network in Vietnam by actually decimated their manpower and resource, those place would have a tough fight to quell those rebellion.

Indonesia armed force (helped by Islamist power-(HMI/NU/MASYUMI/MUHAMMADIYAH) destroyed our communist power in 1965-1966 then invade East Timor in 1976-1977 that during that time has communist tendency among Fretilin elites.

USA did help with armament during our invasion in East Timor.

Indonesia under anti Communist Soeharto regime also send special force to Malaysia to combat communist insurgency there until the communist totally lost in 1990.

While USA lost from Communist Vietnam in Vietnam war 1955-1975

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The supply of weapon to Indonesia communist is not through Vietnam, but directly from CCP China. The plan shipment of 1 million rifles and associated ammunitions to our Communist Party by CCP China that led to Army wanting to make coupe on Soekarno.

Left wing Armed force sniff the plan and killed all of the planners, but one main coup planner, Abdul Harris Nasution, who is basically our Armed Force Commander, escaped.

From there right wing Army lead by Soeharto (Kostrad Commander), special force (Kopassus), and Siliwangi troops (Kodam Siliwangi) executed revenge and destroyed communist power completely and kick out Soekarno from power (he is seen as soft to Communist party) by using political anti Soekarno momentum lead by HMI ( Muslim (University) Students Association).

Muslim Students' Association (Indonesia) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

HMI Alumni and Army then become main political power of Soeharto party (GOLKAR) during our New order ( 1966-1998).

Golkar party is still exist until now and normally become second or third largest party in Indonesia during our second democratic period ( 1998-until now). After we reach democracy again in 1998, Armed Force political wing in GOLKAR and parliament ( they had Armed Force party with fixed seat during New Order-Fraksi ABRI) is terminated and Armed Force come back become full time professional soldiers without any political power.

Our first democratic system period is 1945-1959. In 1955 it was our first fair democratic election/parliamentary system.