To whom does the term 'Aryan' belong?

[LaBong]

Above mentioned definition is less than 100 years old

You can find this term in Dharma Religious (Hinduism/Buddhism etc) texts

Again Aryavarta (Land of Aryans) is a Sanskrit term quoted in Manu Smriti (1500BC-500AD) which is used to describe Central and Northern Indian subcontinent (including modern day Pakistan)

It didn't include modern day Pakistan at the time of manu smriti. By that time political center has been shifted to northern and eastern India.

 

[scorpionx]

I never said that they were people of central asia, said that is the commonly held idea but lacks any archaeological evidence to support it. The recent genetic studies on Indians seem to question that theory. Btw, raising doubts in a theory widely questioned by other scientists does not qualify for your analogy. Why do you believe that "Aryans" came from centrals Asia, Siberia wherever?

Airyana Vaejailh of the Vendidad refers a passage from Bundehesh.It says,There the longest summer day is equal to the two shortest days of winter, the longest winter night is equal to two summer nights. Now the only latitude which suits this description is lat. 49' 20", which in Central Asia would take us to the district of Alatau, in Kussian Turkestan.

As you are very well informed in this subject,just asking your opinion on this.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Aryan = Indo-Iranian, end of story.

 

[Spring Onion]

It is a misconception due to not understanding the original meaning of Vedic words which are completely different from classical sanskrit.The word Go in vedic sanskrit means Sun rays and in classical it means cow.The word hanyate means diminishing where as in classical it means to kill.
Hope this helps to understand where the famous beef eating theory comes from.Swami Dayananda Saraswati's excellent work Light of Truth is followed by curious students of this subject to understand the Vedas.But unfortunately don't find much here on this forum.

will come back to you for detail post but for the timebeing does it mean the Aryan used to eat SUN

My mother language for example is of Indo-Aryan family. Does that mean I'm an 'Aryan'?

"Ohhh....look at me, I'm an Aryan....I'm so pretty!"



Some guys here are floating the idea that Indians are 'Dravidians', whereas Pakistanis are 'Aryans', and hence the partition.

Now all Pakistanis, bow before us Bengalis, for we are your masters.

LOL @PDFers....



If I'm not mistaken the word 'Iran' literally translates to 'Land of the Aryans'.

hehehehe well Indians say it was just a language and NOT race so well hell yeh you are Aryan too

as far as we Pakistanis are concerned well NO nobody here is saying that Pakistanis are aryans entirely.

Pakistan does have people who are aryans those tribes of aryans who dint went southward india, were banished by those who went here and lost to dravidian culture and religion.


its always the Indians who come up with this complex about aryan race and end up claiming that aryan was not a race and that all Indian Hindus are aryans. funny they are insulting dravidians , their own roots.


my point is HINDUS were NOT Aryans. Period.

 

[priti]

added what?? it had added nothing. Vedic Aryans were different. They were NOT Hindus. They did migrate to South and mingled with Dravidians and atlast they were dominated by Dravidian culture and religion and brahmanic cast system.

Those who say that Aryan and Dravidians were one is not true. The Indians bank on Regvida for the word Aryan but at the same time they reject what Rigveda says about Aryans and their culture and religion , by citing harvard and other researches

that brings to the point of who is hindu.because hinduism is a term that has been foisted upon the people of the subcontinent by outsiders. today we call ourselves hindu, but i think a rethink needs to be done.
i am hindu but we follow vedic scriptures and rituals. proban]bly started by vedic aryans. so i thnk its much more complex than what you say.

will come back to you for detail post but for the timebeing does it mean the Aryan used to eat SUN





hehehehe well Indians say it was just a language and NOT race so well hell yeh you are Aryan too

as far as we Pakistanis are concerned well NO nobody here is saying that Pakistanis are aryans entirely.

Pakistan does have people who are aryans those tribes of aryans who dint went southward india, were banished by those who went here and lost to dravidian culture and religion.


its always the Indians who come up with this complex about aryan race and end up claiming that aryan was not a race and that all Indian Hindus are aryans. funny they are insulting dravidians , their own roots.


my point is HINDUS were NOT Aryans. Period.

it depends on what your definition of hindu is. yes, hindus in southern part of india and dravidian were not aryans. but hindus in northern parts most certainly are.so aryan and hindus should be separate entities. because the same aryan hindus like kashmiris and punjabis, iranians converted to other religons.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Don't care whom the term Aryans belong to

But i hope we Indians either get rid of this term or atlest learn to use it in the right context.

This term and its racial connections will only bring more differences in the nation.

I fully support Iranians and Pakistanis claiming this terms as their own.

 

[Rig Vedic]

The ancestry of Pandavas have the blood of Fisher women, If you go through the ancestry of Kauravas or Pandavas some of them are direct decendents of Dasyas.

I don't know if anyone has already clarified this on this thread, but in the Vedas "Dasyu" is actually a reference to Iranic people.

 

[priti]

i think india is such a great land of immigration that you find all the kinds of people there. it just shows that we humans have evloved and not created by god.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Not only it srate that it was cold it also state that it was north . And how recorded histiry if iran is for 900bce while elam date back 2700bc

By the way there is such finding
PressTV - Aryan settlements found in Siberia

4000-year-old Aryan city discovered in Russia - Times Of India

Ancient Aryan settlements found in Siberia | The New Order

I would hypothesize that the Persia of 900 BC came out of a mixing of 2 influences (1) The Sanskrit speaking Avestans from the Balkh area of Afghanistan (2) The Elamites / old Persians from south-west Iran

 

[Spring Onion]

Don't care whom the term Aryans belong to

But i hope we Indians either get rid of this term or atlest learn to use it in the right context.

This term and its racial connections will only bring more differences in the nation.

I fully support Iranians and Pakistanis claiming this terms as their own.

Syama nobody in Pakistan even familiar with the term aryan we are more busy in our current day issues. Infact these are Indians who have some obssession with this struggle to prove themself aryans and disapprove their dravidian culture and faith and rich history.

that brings to the point of who is hindu.because hinduism is a term that has been foisted upon the people of the subcontinent by outsiders. today we call ourselves hindu, but i think a rethink needs to be done.
i am hindu but we follow vedic scriptures and rituals. proban]bly started by vedic aryans. so i thnk its much more complex than what you say.



it depends on what your definition of hindu is. yes, hindus in southern part of india and dravidian were not aryans. but hindus in northern parts most certainly are.so aryan and hindus should be separate entities. because the same aryan hindus like kashmiris and punjabis, iranians converted to other religons.

priti vedic aryans, their culture, their rituals, their gods everything was different than hindus.

infact its not their rituals which are adopted but their faith, rituals all were consumed by dravidian faith/culture etc etc.

 

[Bang Galore]

Airyana Vaejailh of the Vendidad refers a passage from Bundehesh.It says,There the longest summer day is equal to the two shortest days of winter, the longest winter night is equal to two summer nights. Now the only latitude which suits this description is lat. 49' 20", which in Central Asia would take us to the district of Alatau, in Kussian Turkestan.

As you are very well informed in this subject,just asking your opinion on this.

I would like a link. I don't have an answer to where the Aryans came from, only questions. Nothing I have read suggests a clear location anywhere. We end up picking one sentence at random & imposing a solution of our preferences. I have said that there is no archaeological evidence supporting any large scale (or small scale) movement of "Aryans" into these lands. Early recorded evidence for Iranians show references to Iran itself, not to some central asian homeland. Add to that, the Avesta seems ignorant of Western Iran & seems largely located around eastern Iran & northwestern parts of the subcontinent & you have a funny picture of the supposed migration from the North. Nobody explains what the Iranians were doing in the "Hapta Hindu" and how that jells with the theories put forward.

 

[priti]

Syama nobody in Pakistan even familiar with the term aryan we are more busy in our current day issues. Infact these are Indians who have some obssession with this struggle to prove themself aryans and disapprove their dravidian culture and faith and rich history.





priti vedic aryans, their culture, their rituals, their gods everything was different than hindus.

infact its not their rituals which are adopted but their faith, rituals all were consumed by dravidian faith/culture etc etc.

rituals of worshiping fire, shiva-parvati, worshipping fertility and cow worship (because they were a main source of livelihood ) are all indus valley civilzations which then were brought to gangetic plains.
dravidians are completely removed in the sense that they were the original inhabitans of areas from afghanistan and they got slowly driven south.

 

[Srinivas]

I don't know if anyone has already clarified this on this thread, but in the Vedas "Dasyu" is actually a reference to Iranic people.

From Wiki.....

Dasa (Sanskrit दास dāsa[pronunciation?]) is a term that initially had the connotation of "enemy," as relating to tribes identified as the enemies of the Indo-Aryan tribes in the Rig Veda. The word later acquired exalted religious connotations. In contemporary usage, the surname Dasa designates a servant of God, "devotee," or "votary." Dasa more accurately translates to one who has surrendered to God. Dasa can also be used as a suffix to a given name in order to indicate "servant" or "slave" of a particular deity. The present day usage of Dasa or Das in Hinduism has a respectful connotation and is not considered derogatory.[citation needed]

The Dasa are often identified as the wealthy cattle-raising non-Indo-European populations subdued by the people practicing Vedic rituals in the course of the Indo-Aryan migration.[citation needed] Asko Parpola proposed that the original Dasas were fellow Indo-Iranians of the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex, who initially rejected Aryan religious practices, but were later merged with them.

A similar term for enemy people, Dasyu, is also used in the Rig Veda. It is unclear whether the Dasa and Dasyu are related. There is no word for "slave" in Sanskritized Hindi, so the word Dāsa is used in its place.

Syama nobody in Pakistan even familiar with the term aryan we are more busy in our current day issues. Infact these are Indians who have some obssession with this struggle to prove themself aryans and disapprove their dravidian culture and faith and rich history.

There is not much difference between the North Indian worship and South, as I said Earlier Hinduism is an evolution not confined to one language group.

I am from South.

priti vedic aryans, their culture, their rituals, their gods everything was different than hindus.

infact its not their rituals which are adopted but their faith, rituals all were consumed by dravidian faith/culture etc etc.

It is not consumption but rather a Fusion.

 

[scorpionx]

I would like a link. I don't have an answer to where the Aryans came from, only questions. Nothing I have read suggests a clear location anywhere. We end up picking one sentence at random & imposing a solution of our preferences. I have said that there is no archaeological evidence supporting any large scale (or small scale) movement of "Aryans" into these lands. Early recorded evidence for Iranians show references to Iran itself, not to some central asian homeland. Add to that, the Avesta seems ignorant of Western Iran & seems largely located around eastern Iran & northwestern parts of the subcontinent & you have a funny picture of the supposed migration from the North. Nobody explains what the Iranians were doing in the "Hapta Hindu" and how that jells with the theories put forward.

Prehistoric antiquities of the Aryan peoples: a manual of comparative philology and the earliest culture : Schrader, Otto, 1855-1919 : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

I found it in this book.Hope you will find it interesting(Go to page 94). This book was an inspiration for Bal Gangadhar Tilak to write the illustrious Arctic Home of vedas.

 

[Srinivas]

rituals of worshiping fire, shiva-parvati, worshipping fertility and cow worship (because they were a main source of livelihood ) are all indus valley civilzations which then were brought to gangetic plains.
dravidians are completely removed in the sense that they were the original inhabitans of areas from afghanistan and they got slowly driven south.

There is no proof to show that Dravidians are pushed back, The only thing that suggests is some cultural change happened through out the centuries.

The skeletons and Bangles tradition etc found in Indus Valley Civilization points to the fact that current people in Gujarat and others are decendents of Indus valley.