To Those who are pro Khilafat

[Awesome]

But who are you to dictate what my Allah considers Kufr and Shirk? Are you wise enough like Allah to understand what he understands? Isn't that Shirk too?

You should present your arguments without declaring someone a kaafir due to shirk since that's not your place but Allah's.

Moving on.

Why should I caste my vote for the MMA? They wanted to bring in religious police like Taliban's. We all know the Taliban's religious police (or as it is in Saudi with the mutawwa force) used to hit women who didn't dress up Islamically. They used to force people to goto the mosque during prayer timings.

In essence they forced someone to become (their sort of) Muslim when they didn't want to. That is not Islam. Imagine Islam at gun point?

I want to vote for a party that would make laws and work for Pakistanis. All Pakistanis. Make no distinction between me and my Christian and Hindu Pakistani friends who all love Pakistan.

I can't stand to vote for a party that would treat another Pakistani any less just because of their faith. You can preach Islam to Christians and Hindus but please don't put a gun to their head or make life difficult for them till they accept Islam.

 

[A.Rahman]

I can't stand to vote for a party that would treat another Pakistani any less just because of their faith. You can preach Islam to Christians and Hindus but please don't put a gun to their head or make life difficult for them till they accept Islam.

Islam was never spread at gun point

 

[Kaiser]

Islam was never spread at gun point

Actually like it or not it was on many different occasions as was christianity, hinduism and any other form of idealogy. Its impossible for there to be new ideology and not a new conflict that comes to it.

But still so far ive seen the most restrictive and peaceful religions are islam and buddhism

 

[Kaiser]

But who are you to dictate what my Allah considers Kufr and Shirk? Are you wise enough like Allah to understand what he understands? Isn't that Shirk too?

You should present your arguments without declaring someone a kaafir due to shirk since that's not your place but Allah's.

Moving on.

Why should I caste my vote for the MMA? They wanted to bring in religious police like Taliban's. We all know the Taliban's religious police (or as it is in Saudi with the mutawwa force) used to hit women who didn't dress up Islamically. They used to force people to goto the mosque during prayer timings.

In essence they forced someone to become (their sort of) Muslim when they didn't want to. That is not Islam. Imagine Islam at gun point?

I want to vote for a party that would make laws and work for Pakistanis. All Pakistanis. Make no distinction between me and my Christian and Hindu Pakistani friends who all love Pakistan.

I can't stand to vote for a party that would treat another Pakistani any less just because of their faith. You can preach Islam to Christians and Hindus but please don't put a gun to their head or make life difficult for them till they accept Islam.

True, we can bring religion into the state but bringing religion into politics would be society destruction

 

[A.Rahman]

True, we can bring religion into the state but bringing religion into politics would be society destruction

This is a contradiction

 

[zpak]

Doesn't the establishment of a Khalifah need a whole bunch of "pre-requirements"? A society that is as least educated in the basics. The majority of people in Pakistan cannot read let alone be considered "educated". Why aren't the MMA if they truly are for the Khalifah system, establish the basics of the system where they hold power in NWFP and Balochistan.

If the pro-Khilafat movement was smart they would have used the past 50 years to at least educate the majority of Pakistanis who live in rural surrounding oppressed by the feudal minority. This way they could have influenced Pakistani society as a whole and made it much easier for this so called Khilafat to come into existence. The problem is all the religious parties are still bickering and will continue to bicker about details. They are more worried about ads depicting women and mixed sex races rather than addressing the bigger picture.

 

[Skeptic786]

Doesn't the establishment of a Khalifah need a whole bunch of "pre-requirements"? A society that is as least educated in the basics. The majority of people in Pakistan cannot read let alone be considered "educated". Why aren't the MMA if they truly are for the Khalifah system, establish the basics of the system where they hold power in NWFP and Balochistan.

If the pro-Khilafat movement was smart they would have used the past 50 years to at least educate the majority of Pakistanis who live in rural surrounding oppressed by the feudal minority. This way they could have influenced Pakistani society as a whole and made it much easier for this so called Khilafat to come into existence. The problem is all the religious parties are still bickering and will continue to bicker about details. They are more worried about ads depicting women and mixed sex races rather than addressing the bigger picture.

bro,

in one of your other posts you mention being an undergrad student...so assuming your lack of knowledge of the origins of khalifat movement of pro-khalifa people i say the following purely to add to your knowledge and others ( if i say anything wrong.,you and others are welcome to correct me )...

Khalifa system was abolised in 1924 by Ataturk and against this move pro-khalifat movement was speared in the sub-continent by Ali Brotheran ( Maulana Mohd. Ali Johar and his brother shaukat ) and supported by Congress party and Gandhi ( not supported in anyway by muslim league or Quad-i-Azam ). Anyway the movement was unsuccessful. Nothing of that sort ever rose again in the subcontinent.....the islamic parties of india or when Pakistan came into being are not pro-khalafat ( MMA as you imply ). Pro-Khalafat movement had its origins in the minds and subsequently activities of arab excels who came to live in London in the 1980s. Naturally as the largest majority of muslims are pakistanis in the UK....the arabs came into contact with their pakistani brothers and together a movement of sort was established under the name of "Hizb Tahreer". This movement is banned in all arab states and i think in pakistan as well after it called for musharaf's death..but remains legal in the UK. It has nothing wotsoever to do with Pakistan's long established islamic parties or its political alliance the MMA. The primary objective of Hizb Tahreer and its supporters is the re-establishment of the khalifa system.

From Tiny ( i emphasize the word "tiny" ) number of muslims in London that are hizb-tahreer supporters...few immigrated ( i would say not more than 5--if you exclude their dependents) back to Pakistan and established a small office in lahore in the late 1990s....before the organisation was officially banned in Pakistan.

I said not more than 5 went to Pakistan...i am being genourous....for it was always the same guy with the meghaphone i saw on tv. After 911 he was arrested on his return to the UK but released without any charges.

 

[Awesome]

Islam was never spread at gun point

It was/is attempted.

 

[Awesome]

If Khalifah was the only call for the Hizb Tahrir, there wouldn't have been any problems. It's an opinion, and to voice it is their right. But it also calls for a lot of violence and encourages suicide bombings. And when for this obvious threat when they are are arrested they say they are being persecuted?

 

[zpak]

bro,

in one of your other posts you mention being an undergrad student...so assuming your lack of knowledge of the origins of khalifat movement of pro-khalifa people i say the following purely to add to your knowledge and others ( if i say anything wrong.,you and others are welcome to correct me )...

Khalifa system was abolised in 1924 by Ataturk and against this move pro-khalifat movement was speared in the sub-continent by Ali Brotheran ( Maulana Mohd. Ali Johar and his brother shaukat ) and supported by Congress party and Gandhi ( not supported in anyway by muslim league or Quad-i-Azam ). Anyway the movement was unsuccessful. Nothing of that sort ever rose again in the subcontinent.....the islamic parties of india or when Pakistan came into being are not pro-khalafat ( MMA as you imply ). Pro-Khalafat movement had its origins in the minds and subsequently activities of arab excels who came to live in London in the 1980s. Naturally as the largest majority of muslims are pakistanis in the UK....the arabs came into contact with their pakistani brothers and together a movement of sort was established under the name of "Hizb Tahreer". This movement is banned in all arab states and i think in pakistan as well after it called for musharaf's death..but remains legal in the UK. It has nothing wotsoever to do with Pakistan's long established islamic parties or its political alliance the MMA. The primary objective of Hizb Tahreer and its supporters is the re-establishment of the khalifa system.

From Tiny ( i emphasize the word "tiny" ) number of muslims in London that are hizb-tahreer supporters...few immigrated ( i would say not more than 5--if you exclude their dependents) back to Pakistan and established a small office in lahore in the late 1990s....before the organisation was officially banned in Pakistan.

I said not more than 5 went to Pakistan...i am being genourous....for it was always the same guy with the meghaphone i saw on tv. After 911 he was arrested on his return to the UK but released without any charges.

Thanks for the info Skeptic.

Again my point stands though. If the said Hizb-Tahreer were sincere in establishing a Khilafah they would plan long term. And as Asim said they would be tolerated if they didn't have a violent platform. There are groups in Pakistan that are trying to educate more and more people about the fundamentals and are not into politics but they are a minority.

 

[Salahuddin]

If Khalifah was the only call for the Hizb Tahrir, there wouldn't have been any problems. It's an opinion, and to voice it is their right. But it also calls for a lot of violence and encourages suicide bombings. And when for this obvious threat when they are are arrested they say they are being persecuted?

Barking doesnt do much, proove HT has ever commited any violent act.

 

[Salahuddin]

It was/is attempted.

If Islam was spread by sward there wouldnt be a single Hindu left in India, there wouldnt be a single christian left in mid east and spain.... What are you anti Islam or Islam or something?

 

[Salahuddin]

"Islam is the best chance the poor of the planet have for any hope of decency in their lives. It is the one revolutionary force that cares about humanity." [1998] - Former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark

 

[zpak]

Hold on..are you accusing us of being non-islamic Sallahudin? Just because we dont follow your view of the Khilafah? Whats with the quote? We're all muslim here so dont act all self righteous.

 

[Salahuddin]

Hold on..are you accusing us of being non-islamic Sallahudin? Just because we dont follow your view of the Khilafah? Whats with the quote? We're all muslim here so dont act all self righteous.

I am not calling any one non muslim here , I can never do that but Judging
by the some of the comments here I think even non muslim would be more pro Islamic system .