To all Indian members here. A question...

[SaifullahK]

Pakistan is very grateful for Chinese assistance with nuclear weapons technology, which has been the game-changer in South Asia.

Without this crucial support, Pakistan would have never been able to continue with its Jihad for the liberation of Kahmiris and other oppressed populations.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I totally agree with on this.

However do people realize that if this keeps dragging on, later when China become more open and more democratic, it will be much harder to settle this on China's part. Now the government actually keeps all those issues away from the general public. If those issues become public and with everything you have seen by some of the Chinese poster's demonstrations, do you think that the public opinion will be on India's side? People from both India and China have some sort of chauvinistic tendency wired in their thinkings, under a democratic environment I believe that China's adminstration will be forced under the public pressure to take some drastic measures(not necessarily war) on this issue. Same thing is going to happen in China as it did in India, there will be a time even when the India is presenting a favourable term for the China, the multi-partisan politics won't allow any party to accept it. The opposition will definitely label whoever do as a treator and will compare it to the later Qing Dynasty who conceded a lot of China's land to foreign powers under gun point because it was weak and corrupted.

Dear Friend,

Of course; no doubt about it. We HAD a window to take advantage of a favourable attitude in the Chinese central leadership. It was not hostile earlier. Even 62 was intended to be a sharp warning, not a permanent act of crippling or a closing of the doors. But Indian governments, NOT because they are democratic and therefore condemned to drawn-out discussions and procrastination, but because they are governed by a civil service that is not rewarded for action, but punished for it; and a political class that does not understand the spirit behind democracy, only its workings and mechanical operations.

I can only hope desperately that better sense will prevail; that Manmohan Singh, instead of wooing the Pakistanis, who are not going to listen because they are governed by their Army, not by their elected government, should spend 10% of that effort on building a consensus with the right (the left is already sold on the idea of a peace). Huge improvements would result then.

With warm regards,

'Joe Shearer'

 

[footmarks]

How about you respond to my post

Arunachal Aradesh was signed over to Britain (through coercion IN EVERY COURT OF LAW FORCING SOMEONE TO SIGN A CONTRACT MAKES IT ILLEGAL), not to India. So why should India keep it?

By the same logic, Division of India was forced upon us by british, so why should Pakistan not be united with India again? Or maybe west Bangal be annexed from India and amalgamated with Bangladesh or vice versa?(I dont want that, just making a point against the weird logic given by you). And if Tibbatans looks same as Chinese, why not China cede to tibbat and become "Chinese Autonomous region of Tibbat"? Countries are not made of races or looks (as in your BS arguement). You need to quickly grow up.

 

[Cow(ard)Boy]

Why are chinese so non cooperative?
The only topic they find is Arunachal Pradesh ?
Learn from us.
We defeated Pakistan in 1971 and a land called "Bangladesh" was created.
We were not so mean to capsize on that land.
People should have some humanitarian sense.

 

[Cow(ard)Boy]

Dear Friend,

Of course; no doubt about it. We HAD a window to take advantage of a favourable attitude in the Chinese central leadership. It was not hostile earlier. Even 62 was intended to be a sharp warning, not a permanent act of crippling or a closing of the doors. But Indian governments, NOT because they are democratic and therefore condemned to drawn-out discussions and procrastination, but because they are governed by a civil service that is not rewarded for action, but punished for it; and a political class that does not understand the spirit behind democracy, only its workings and mechanical operations.

I can only hope desperately that better sense will prevail; that Manmohan Singh, instead of wooing the Pakistanis, who are not going to listen because they are governed by their Army, not by their elected government, should spend 10% of that effort on building a consensus with the right (the left is already sold on the idea of a peace). Huge improvements would result then.

With warm regards,

'Joe Shearer'

A perfect post from a guy living in a perfect place.
Silchar

 

[DesiGuy]

damm, what a thread....! nice!

 

[arihant]

It could be anything. For me it was Nehru which didn't took Chinese Govt.'s consent before doing his wrong doings. Although west or Indian Politics may say that China stabbed from back, I wish each and every Indian could know truth.

Although, attacking India by China was preplanned, well executed and have to do with their internal problems. I mean Mio wanted to spread nationalism spirit to whole China with this.

 

[arihant]

Being Frank, You attacked without any Provocation, and only and only for greediness!!!

This is what One Indian Thinks!!!

Pretty much similar what Media says. Reality is different. Although China is not child, they were too somehow guilty but offcourse prime person for this was Nehru chaacha.

 

[Raj4213]

Great thread.

Now this is where we could see/read things like informative, meaningful discussions, healthy but differed views and ofcourse a ranter who does not understand/read the posts prior to his.

On a personal note. thanks to the thread starter and the other members for thier contribution.

Regards,

 

[CardSharp]

Maybe it's time to reawaken this thread in light of the Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report. This is proof that healthy conversation can be had between Chinese and Indian members if people put aside their reflexive feelings of nationalism.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Yeah largely nehru's fault,i'll admit.But that doesn't excuse current chinese demands on arunachal pradesh which is a hindi speaking area of people who want nothing with china and share tibetan culture that has been decimated across the border.
62 i agree was idiot nehru's greed and blindness.

 

[Chronos]

I genuinely want to know what Indian members here think about the 1962 war. Please be frank, my feelings won't be hurt and I'm not likely to get offended. I really want to get the Indian perspective on it as a student of history and perspectives.

Was the 1962 war a result of China stabbing India in the back?

What was the sequence of event that lead to the war?

Was Nehru's fault?

Do Indians think there are parallels to the reported incursion recently?

Thanks in advance for any reply

It was Nehru's fault for ignoring Realpolitik. As Sardar Patel said, the Chinese Communism is not communism but rabid nationalism in disguise or something to that effect.

But yeah, not pleasant when China kicked our butt :/

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Maybe it's time to reawaken this thread in light of the Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report. This is proof that healthy conversation can be had between Chinese and Indian members if people put aside their reflexive feelings of nationalism.

Hey buddy, 好久不见! Hope you're doing well!

The interesting thing is that the facts in the (still classified) Henderson-Brooks report seem to largely match the information that is publicly available and used in the general academic discourse surrounding the 1962 War.

Yet there are still a huge number of Indians who say that: "China attacked India out of the blue, for no reason at all!"

The opinion from the Indian media seems to be that this above viewpoint was propagated by the ruling Congress Party in India, to cover for Nehru's mistakes, which would have showed their own party in a bad light.

No doubt the upcoming Indian elections had everything to do with the "timing" of when this report was released.

Hopefully this will improve the general level of debate regarding the 1962 War, a tragedy that could have otherwise been avoided.

 

[Chronos]

Hey buddy, 好久不见! Hope you're doing well!

The interesting thing is that the facts in the (still classified) Henderson-Brooks report seem to largely match the information that is publicly available and used in the general academic discourse surrounding the 1962 War.

Yet there are still a huge number of Indians who say that: "China attacked India out of the blue, for no reason at all!"

The opinion from the Indian media seems to be that this above viewpoint was propagated by the ruling Congress Party in India, to cover for Nehru's mistakes, which would have showed their own party in a bad light.

No doubt the upcoming Indian elections had everything to do with the "timing" of when this report was released.

Hopefully this will improve the general level of debate regarding the 1962 War, a tragedy that could have otherwise been avoided.

Haven't seen you for a long time!

How have you been

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Yeah WB cardsharp.Remember u from some discusssions with Joe shearer in military history forums.Nice to see u back.