TLP chief Saad Hussain Rizvi arrested in Lahore, Protests, and related

[krash]

Zia without doubt is guilty and his legacy is toxic. However the issue in Pakistan runs deeper. The fault lies in the very DNA of Pakistan and it needs fixing.

This DNA was a fair bit different before him, though. Bhutto brought the rabid mullah to the stage, Zia unchained them. A society of hundreds of millions of poor, uneducated, and destitute was the perfect breeding ground for rabid illiterate hatred.

The Objectives Resolution declares that sovereignty belongs to Allah. From religious POV this is fine but from practical and political POV this is recipe for disaster.

If the state says sovereignty belongs to Allah what stops the next Ashiq lover to invoke that and say he is acting on behalf of a higher authority and demands XYZ what do you do? This will problem will keep coming up.

That's a misconception. There is 1400 years worth of academic work done on that issue within Islamic Jurisprudence. For example, any transgression against law is forbidden even if it's a Non-Muslim state, even if the law is un-Islamic. However, the point I am trying to make is that once you take rabid illiterate mobs out of the picture, you make room for discussion, debate, and education. Evolution for the better follows naturally, the pace is relative.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Pakistani Hindus

All the minorities knew that they were fcuked when OB was passed in 1949. It's on record as you probably know. Things did not go apeshit straight away. If my heating system is switched off it takes time for the temperature to drop and cold bite my arsse.

Bhutto brought the rabid mullah to the stage

Please cite me primary source for this?


The TLP goons don't see the fact that most of the 1.8 billion Muslims on earth are quite. More than 40 Muslim countries including the guardian of the holy sites Saudia Arabia is entirely cool with France. Sultan Erdogan is chilled, Istanbul is rocking with tourists.

But Lahore is burning. As if it's not already a bloody dump.

 

[TOPGUN]

Murdered? Why did TLP terrorists attack police and abducted?

They are paid terrorist puppets of enemies of Pakistan people need to wake up simply.

 

[Norwegian]

The problem is as long as the state via Objective Resolution [OR] relegates sovereignty to the almighty any citizen of Pakistan can challange the Pakistani state by citing his loyalty to the higher authority that supercedes the state.

This is exactly what TLP are doing. They are obliging the ultimate sovereign. No point in saying to them otherwise because their strongly held belief is they are acting as agents of Allah.

In fact TLP could go to court and argue their point by citing the constitution. The counter-argumant is the almighty has invested the authority as agent to the Pakistani state. But TLP could argue that it is their belief that the state has failed act as agent of the almighty because it took no action against the blaspheny in France.

When the government gives reasons why it can;'t the Ashiq lovers say their love has no limits and they will sacrifice everything. And they expect the state to do the same. If it does not they will die as Ashiq's to prove their limitless love.

And next thing you have TLP rioting ...

Objectives Resolution was brainchild of Maulana Maududi. He single handedly destroyed Pakistan.

All the minorities knew that they were fcuked when OB was passed in 1949.

Many Pakistani Hindu Cabinet members left Pakistan for India in protest to Objectives Resolution. Country was f***ed already in 1949 by rabid Mullahs.

Please cite me primary source for this?

Source is second amendment when Bhutto declared Qadianis Kafir on rabid Mullah demands

 

[Mrc]

Why don't we pass qadiyanistan resolution while we are at it....

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

Why don't we pass qadiyanistan resolution while we are at it....

Haha this thread has gone peculiar.

 

[krash]

Please cite me primary source for this?

The history of how Bhutto managed Maududi and JI. He was more concerned about consolidating his own political power instead of what was right for the country. He gave in to Maududi's demands, which till then had been sidelined since 1947. The second amendment was one such demand.

Let's not digress too much.

 

[Saifullah]

Murdered? Why did TLP terrorists attack police and abducted?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1383050944468848643

This guy has been murdered under the custody of Police.

 

[Kambojaric]

I see your point about poverty and inequality. But the issue of religious radicalism is another aspect even if there is come overlap. The greatest poverty in Pakistan is in interior Sindh and South Punjab yet those regions are not burning. It appears to be that TLP is most active along the GT belt which is more prosperous region of Pakistan.

To my mind the real issue and PMIK touched on this today and I quote him

who could decide how much or how less someone loved the Holy Prophet (PBUH).

Who? In a society where religion is smothering everything this question is vital. Any person can invoke his greater love and dedication. Then begin taking law into his hands using religion as a excuse.

Sure, I will definitely agree that the de-monopolization of religion from the state to essentially anybody claiming to be a "scholar" is at the core of this problem but realistically speaking this is not going to change anytime soon. Our society has become so radicalized in its mindset that enforcing an Iranian, Saudi or Turkish type of state control over religion will result in even more TLPs emerging. Its akin to southern Americans and their passion for guns. Threaten to take it away and they will revolt.

The only viable solution in my opinion is greater income equality and reducing the stark economic differences in society thereby reducing the vacuum which extremists utilize to garner new recruits.
The reason why groups like the TLP enjoy so much popularity in the GT Road belt is due to the challenges urbanization brings. An urbanized community due to its inherent geographic population density pits people from different societal classes close to each other. If you live in DHA in a city like Lahore you will at times only be a couple of meters away from slum like colonies /katchi abadi or enclosed pinds where the standard of living is drastically lower. A kid from DHA has a bright future in front of him/her whereas one from neighboring Charrar pinds is bleak https://www.dawn.com/news/1218123.

Greater wealth generation and even distribution also provides further benefits in the long run such as a balancing out of the fertility rate. Globally fertility rates decline where a safe economic future is guaranteed. In my opinion the least violent way of reducing radicalism in our society is for serious economic reforms. PTI has promised much but it remains to be seen whether they can deliver.

 

[krash]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1383050944468848643

This guy has been murdered under the custody of Police.

Police brutality is a serious breech of law and those officers should be tried and punished as per it. However, it is not an excuse and has no baring on the position of TLP. This is not A Vs B, no Good Vs Evil. TLP has no right, the State has all the authority. The rabid Mullah needs to be put where he belongs, in accordance with the law.

Also, can you please provide any source of said claim?

 

[IbnAbdullah]

Salaam

https://twitter.com/x/status/1383050944468848643

This guy has been murdered under the custody of Police.

Just as we need to take care of the crazy mobs roaming around causing chaos, we also must change this stupid culture of police brutality. This sort of thing gives idiots ammo against the state.

These officers should be trained enough to understand that they are representatives of the state and what they do reflects upon the state.

We have seen how much problems can stem from an ill- trained force from the US. The state should appear to be caring and disciplined not brutal and ill disciplined like these cops.

 

[VCheng]

If this is handled intelligently and with a strong enough spine, this could turn into a watershed moment and undo the doings of Zia and beyond. There will still need to be legislative changes to bring about a conceptual change for societal discourse in the country. You cannot progress as long as there is a rabid mob of illiterates, Mullahs or otherwise, ready to burn every thing down.

The likelihood of any meaningful change in the present societal discourse is minimal to non-existent for the foreseeable future.

 

[ZAMURD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1383050944468848643

This guy has been murdered under the custody of Police.

good.

 

[krash]

The likelihood of any meaningful change in the present societal discourse is minimal to non-existent for the foreseeable future.

I will take the minimal. I'll take a hundred years, as long as it does happen.

That said, the change in societal discourse on terrorism began the exact same way.

 

[VCheng]

I will take the minimal. I'll take a hundred years, as long as it does happen.

That said, the change in societal discourse on terrorism began the exact same way.

Any improvements must be judged relative to the time scales needed. Emptying out a sinking boat two buckets per second is better than nothing, but given a rate of ingress of ten buckets per second, may not be very effective in the end.