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Timeline Gujarat 2002

Sir, when the Congress High Command shields the butchers that perpetrated the genocide, appoints them to senior positions in the party and in the government, and makes them candidates in elections, then it is evident that the Congress as an organization, is an active supporter of the genocide.

Not difficult to understand, except for those who are willfully blind or consumed by hate.

Rubbish.

All parties are equally guilty of nominating candidates with criminal or objectionable records. That does not in itself constitute the kind of endorsement that the BJP has extended to Modi.

Which butchers did the Congress shield, from what? The BJP was in opposition for years. Do you have a single complaint by them that Congressmen instigating riots had been shielded?

Name the riot-involved Congressmen who were appointed to senior positions.

The fact is, like all apologists of the Sangh Parivar, when you fail in your arguments, you find the apposite counters in the equally reprehensible behaviour of another decaying party. Not because you necessarily condemn them, but because you find it necessary to concoct a diversionary plot.
 
This is excerpt from the Times of India report you have mentioned in the earlier post. Just highlighting a couple of lines.

I really don't know the complete history of these riots in Bengal. I guess I was born a few decades too late to know what happend first hand. What caught my eyes in the article are two points. I may be off track here but I thought I will put them across.

I was not. I was eighteen, and joined college that year.

Are my recollections of that, and 84, and the Babri Masjid and the horrified reactions of the man in the street, and of Bombay 92, to be dismissed because you, @Vinod2070, for all I know, @Rig Vedic, were not present or were not able to recollect those incidents? The point is that your inability should not be used to disable the inputs of others who were not similarly disabled.

This is M J Akbar's personal experience. I wonder if everyone (all victims/sufferers of riots in 1968) had the same personal touch from the home minister. I am not criticizing Jyoti Basu. He is a Statesman par excellence and very few leaders in India can match his stature. But are we expecting personal handling by Home Minister of a State for each Individual. Neither its physically possible nor desirable for a Home Minister to give individual attention to each citizen. In my eyes a life of person in a Jhuggi is as important as the life of an MP. I don't know why M J Akbar got a special attention. I hope everyone else did get the same attention as well including someone who lived on the streets. If that really happened my respects for Basu will only go higher.

It is not clear whether you are ignoring the main point deliberately and using Basu as a smokescreen, or whether you have genuinely missed it.

The point was not about Basu going personally to the riot-hit spot.

The point was that the police were able to suppress it, firmly and efficiently. With a minimum of bloodshed. They faced no interference, rather, they were encouraged to restore law and order. That was the contrast, the shocking contrast, one that I have personally witnessed in my lifetime, between Telinipara and between the Sikh riots, the Bombay riots and the Gujarat riots. In each of the latter three, the state machinery was subverted by the administration.

You found the personal intervention of Basu strange. From my memories of that incident 45 years ago, Basu spent considerable time in the area. Akbar is an articulate man, and was writing a very emotional piece about his personal interaction with Basu at various times. His account should not be misread to indicate that he, and only he, was singled out for attention. In that locality, which was largely filled with ordinary workers from the jute mills on that side, the Howrah side, of the Hooghly, a student going to Presidency was an oddity. In every other respect, Akbar was a jhuggi resident.

We all knew, and admired him, in college, as juniors. But that was because of the intensity of his academic pursuit (he was English Honours, a faculty known for its brilliance, from the same batch as Sukanta Chaudhuri and Gautam Adhikari). In all other respects, in the milieu of Telinipara, he was not particularly distinguished.

It is not difficult to understand that this oddity would have been brought to the attention of the Home Minister. Hundreds received his personal attention besides Akbar; again, that was not the point. The point was that he allowed the police to function.

Second thing that caught my eyes was that M J Akbar hadn't been to his college for weeks. Does that mean the communal riots/tentions went on for weeks. Did this mean that common people couldn't leave their homes without police escort. May be it will be good to compare that time line with Gujarat.

Bluntly, no.

The riots lasted a day or two; there were sporadic incidents on the second day. The tension continued for some time. It was this, and the death of his Hindu friend, that kept MJ away 'for weeks'.

I am sorry that this kind of fishing for exculpatory facts seems necessary. Just looking up the Telinipara riots would have resolved these overblown doubts.

I think we will just disagree here. If I start doubting every law agency in this country including one that is hand picked by Supreme Court I don't think there is any agency in this country that a citizen can trust. Neither the government nor the Judicary. The only option left for me will be to leave the country or form another one.

For your information, the SIT was not handpicked by the Supreme Court. Raghavan was, and he was given the rest of the team by the Gujarat Government, which was asked to provide staff by a court directive.

This same SIT was so far from the satisfaction of the Court that appointed it, that the Court was compelled to appoint an amicus curiae to go into the facts that it claimed to have established. Does that say nothing to you?

Incidentally, regarding a somewhere dramatic ending line, Pulak Sanyal (Pulluck Sanyal), an associate of Ram Chatterjee, said that for the Muslims, there would only two countries to go to: Pakistan and Kabristan.

Communal minds seem to move on the same sets of tram lines.

Huh? The bodies were transported at 3 am to a hospital on the remote outskirts. I don't know from where you have been fed this story about slowly moving trucks surrounded by chanting crowds.

Read the eye-witness accounts gathered by the independent fact-finding bodies.
 
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For all Modi Haters who say he instigated the Riots. Modi's Speech telecast live on Doordarshan on 28th February 2002

....and then went back to the special meeting of police officers where he 'interpreted' the situation.

What could be more convincing than the alleged chief abettor proclaiming that he wants no unrest, no reaction.

That does it, of course. No other proof is needed.
 
Heyy wait!

Since we're on witch hunting course why not take care 1984 anti-Sikh riots?

The 2011 WikiLeaks cable leaks revealed that the United States was convinced about the complicity of Indian Government ruled by the Indian National Congress in the riots, and termed it as "opportunism" and "hatred" of the Congress government against Sikhs.

Why is everyone mum about this? it's been 30 fricking years and people have not been resettled TILL DATE!

This selective justice of Congress is shameful! If they wanna clean the country they start by their own house first. If they really wanna be secular why not start by punishing those behind '84 riots first? Or does their secularism = appeasement of Muslims only? How about Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains?
 
....and then went back to the special meeting of police officers where he 'interpreted' the situation.

What could be more convincing than the alleged chief abettor proclaiming that he wants no unrest, no reaction.

That does it, of course. No other proof is needed.
Any proof of the alleged meting with police officers except Sanjeev bhat who woke up 10 years later when his wife was given a congress ticket
 
Any proof of the alleged meting with police officers except Sanjeev bhat who woke up 10 years later when his wife was given a congress ticket

P. B. Sreekumar's testimony.

From your tone and tenor, you are aware of the reports made, however late, and you have made up your mind about the integrity of Bhat. So have I. as it happens. And about Modi himself, except that given his clear record of suppressing information and actively discouraging witnesses, the presumption of proof of guilt rises almost on a quarterly basis.

So long as you are aware that you are tacitly approving the horrific treatment to Muslims that is directly attributable to him from what has emerged so far.

Heyy wait!

Since we're on witch hunting course why not take care 1984 anti-Sikh riots?



Why is everyone mum about this? it's been 30 fricking years and people have not been resettled TILL DATE!

This selective justice of Congress is shameful! If they wanna clean the country they start by their own house first. If they really wanna be secular why not start by punishing those behind '84 riots first? Or does their secularism = appeasement of Muslims only? How about Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains?

Excellent point.

Start a new thread.
 
Picture6.jpg


Muslim Razakars pose with captured Hindu civilians before killing them in cold blood (Telangana, 1948)

Wrong caption, that image is from 1971 Bangladesh liberation war.

Myth-busting the Bangladesh war of 1971 - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
 
India does not have to answer to Pakistan about Gujrat pogrom 2002, they have to answer to their own Muslim population who were faced state sponsored terrorism and ethnic cleansing (which includes religious groups). The Hindu majority of the country has frequently persecuted it's minorities whenever it has felt threatened by them, whether it be the Sikhs in 1984, the pogrom against the Christians in Orissa 2007-08, or the Muslims in Bombay riots 1992 and Gujarat pogrom 2002.
 
Gujarat Riots started by a muslim Haji Bilal who led a mob to burn 59 hindus alive.
Hindus have a right to life and right to defend their families.
 
Rubbish.

All parties are equally guilty of nominating candidates with criminal or objectionable records. That does not in itself constitute the kind of endorsement that the BJP has extended to Modi.

Which butchers did the Congress shield, from what? The BJP was in opposition for years. Do you have a single complaint by them that Congressmen instigating riots had been shielded?

Name the riot-involved Congressmen who were appointed to senior positions.

The fact is, like all apologists of the Sangh Parivar, when you fail in your arguments, you find the apposite counters in the equally reprehensible behaviour of another decaying party. Not because you necessarily condemn them, but because you find it necessary to concoct a diversionary plot.

Sir, now you are defending the Butcher Congress Party by alleging that all parties, including the BJP are equally bad. I did not mention the BJP in my post.

Have you not heard of Kamal Nath and Tytler? Were they not given ministerships and tickets to contest elections? As we speak, is Jagdish Tytler not an honored member of the Congress Working Committee, and in-charge of Orissa affairs?

I am sorry but you need to introspect about how you have become so contorted with hatred that you will go to any length to deny the Congress Party's genocides.
 
Read the eye-witness accounts gathered by the independent fact-finding bodies.

Read the official State Intelligence Bureau report of 28 Feb 2002, which, ironically, is being bandied around by rabid anti-Modi fanatics as "proof" of Modi's guilt.

The bodies reached Sola Hospital at 3:34 am.

Independent fact-finding bodies?!! What rubbish. You are simply regurgitating the disinformation spread by vicious motivated elements.
 
P. B. Sreekumar's testimony.

From your tone and tenor, you are aware of the reports made, however late, and you have made up your mind about the integrity of Bhat. So have I. as it happens. And about Modi himself, except that given his clear record of suppressing information and actively discouraging witnesses, the presumption of proof of guilt rises almost on a quarterly basis.

In a court of law there is no presumption of proof of guilt. Either there is proof or there is no proof. And in 11 years with a Supreme Court appointed SIT and a hostile central govt. if no proof has emerged then we can say that there is no proof.

The only time the so called witnesses come forward are when there are elections round the corner.

I have shown you a conclusive and Un challengable proof of Modi asking for calm after the horrific Godhra Incident.

If you have such a proof of him instigating the riots or asking police to be lenient then please present it here instead of demonising the best hope India has right now.

And incidentally if Modi asked to go slow on the riots why did 254 Hindus die , many of them from Police bullets ( Union govt. figures , not Modi govt. )

So long as you are aware that you are tacitly approving the horrific treatment to Muslims that is directly attributable to him from what has emerged so far.

You Pseudo-Secularists don't understand Modi. He is a true secular who does not care for caste creed or religion. Ifa new factory is started, if Narmada waters are distributed across the state, if the world's first canal top solar power project is started, if new road is built then it caters to all the population not just the Hindus.

He does not believe in giving reservations to Muslims or declaring that they have first right on the nations resources ( Manmohan Singh's statement) or overturning Supreme Court Judgements to favour Muslim Males ( Shah Bano case) or allying with purely Muslim Parties like MIM.

The biggest problem is that the sickularists have made the definition of secularism as pandering to theMuslims. The prosperity of Muslims in "communal" Gujarat is much higher than in "secular" UP. And the biggest proof of Modi's acceptability is that he gets votes even in Muslim dominated areas.
 
The same blunt rebuttal applies to your mention of the Bombay riots of 92; where was the opportunity?

The main reason why Modi attracts more negative attention than the people behind Bombay 92 or the Sikh riots of 84 is because of the frequency of hagiographic threads about Modi.

Think about it.

Nobody issues doom-filled pronouncements against Modi out of the blue. Every hostile comment that you, or other Modicrats find objectionable is in response to a fawning, sycophantic thread about how he is the best thing since the idea of sliced bread.

In fact, you reverse the story.

The main reason why people rally around Modi is because he is so relentlessly and unjustly crucified by the most corrupt and divisive forces in the nation.

All the ugly voices united against Modi lead to the sentiment that surely he must be doing something right.
 
Justice will only be served when Modi the mass murdering rapist is awarded the death penalty and hanged upside down for crimes against humanity.
Modi a 'rapist'? :woot: What an idiot you are! Nice to see you banned on PDF! :P
 
Sir, now you are defending the Butcher Congress Party by alleging that all parties, including the BJP are equally bad. I did not mention the BJP in my post.

Have you not heard of Kamal Nath and Tytler? Were they not given ministerships and tickets to contest elections? As we speak, is Jagdish Tytler not an honored member of the Congress Working Committee, and in-charge of Orissa affairs?

I am sorry but you need to introspect about how you have become so contorted with hatred that you will go to any length to deny the Congress Party's genocides.

You are begging wrong people. Many of them have picture of Rajiv Gandhi hanging in their living room. They are the same people who will demean BJP in public with some fucked up argument that they will fight Pakistan vis a vis LeT who has been the only source of terrorism in J&K.

Their itch against BJP and RSS is the product of compromise they assume is done deal with congress-I who will go to any length to appease likewise minorities. But they will never give a thought for the larger interest of India where majority of Hindus are now more aware of facts and resurgent, will ultimately run congress-I down to oblivion in near future.

Wait for this nation to implode and see them feeling sorry for their selfish agenda of treating Hindus like punching bags with some self invented lost in translation constitutional impunity.
 

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