Time to open Souther front to crush Talibanic menace

[antiobl]

Pakistani army has been trying to keep the lid on Wazirastan by deploying 90,000 or so troops and losing many on regular basis. This is a "containment" policy and it is good in the short run.

In the long run you must take the offensive to the heartland of your opponent. In this case the heartland of Taliban is Kandhar and we must open second front to counter their pressure towards north.

I suggest keeping 45K in Wazirastan and deploying close to 100,000 troops to attack Kandhar. This will cut off their supply lines, and ease pressure on Wazirastan.

An added benefit of this thrust will be to drain BLA basis in Afghanistan that are presumably funded by aided by Indians.

 

[solid snake]

Are you forgetting the NATO troops already in Afghanistan? Maybe we should deploy our troops there to show them we are trying just as hard to crush this menace as they are. But that moron Karzai would never agree to this.

But if the US/NATO forces leave the job unfinished (I'm pretty sure they will), we should move in for the kill.

 

[antiobl]

Are you forgetting the NATO troops already in Afghanistan? Maybe we should deploy our troops there to show them we are trying just as hard to crush this menace as they are. But that moron Karzai would never agree to this.

But if the US/NATO forces leave the job unfinished (I'm pretty sure they will), we should move in for the kill.

NATO is using North-to-South, and North-to-South/East/West deployment. This was the same techniques used by Russians with mixed results.

However if you study the first Anglo-Afghan war of 1838, Gen. William Elphinstone used Quetta, Kandhar, Kabul route.

Therefore Pakistani army can use a second front as South-to-North to crush Talibans. This will be very similar to the two sided attack on Berlin towards the end of WWII. This time NATO coming down from North while Pakistan army moving from south to North.

We must do somthing to open the seond front. Our soldiers are bogged down and dying in Wazirastan. But the Talibanic cancer is in Kandhar and not Wazirastan. So we must nip the evil at its source.

 

[Officer of Engineers]

There is one major difference between the Soviet operation and the current NATO operation in Afghanistan. An aspect which I am intimately aware of. Children are going to school. Children are playing around us. Say what you want about the difficulties that we faced and our lack of resolve. No parent will ever risk his/her child.

 

[dabong1]

Pakistani army has been trying to keep the lid on Wazirastan by deploying 90,000 or so troops and losing many on regular basis. This is a "containment" policy and it is good in the short run.

In the long run you must take the offensive to the heartland of your opponent. In this case the heartland of Taliban is Kandhar and we must open second front to counter their pressure towards north.

I suggest keeping 45K in Wazirastan and deploying close to 100,000 troops to attack Kandhar. This will cut off their supply lines, and ease pressure on Wazirastan.

An added benefit of this thrust will be to drain BLA basis in Afghanistan that are presumably funded by aided by Indians.

What will you do if the taliban take there offensive into the heartlands of pakistan?
You must be dreaming if you think the pak army can defeat the afghan freedom fighters.
NATO with all there power is getting hammered by the taliban and the same thing is happening to the pak army in waziristan.
The same way pakistan has unilaterally scrapped the agreement jinnah had with the tribals they can do the same and call unification with there pushtoon brothers in afghanistan.
Fits into the american plan break the muslim nations into smaller states.

 

[dabong1]

NATO is using North-to-South, and North-to-South/East/West deployment. This was the same techniques used by Russians with mixed results..

Sorry there was only one result....the russians lost.

However if you study the first Anglo-Afghan war of 1838, Gen. William Elphinstone used Quetta, Kandhar, Kabul route...

If you carry on studing the anglo afghan war the british lost.

Therefore Pakistani army can use a second front as South-to-North to crush Talibans. This will be very similar to the two sided attack on Berlin towards the end of WWII. This time NATO coming down from North while Pakistan army moving from south to North....

Your not fighting a standing army like the germans but a guerilla army that will melt away once attacked in large numbers only to regroup later and start killing the invading army.

We must do somthing to open the seond front. Our soldiers are bogged down and dying in Wazirastan. But the Talibanic cancer is in Kandhar and not Wazirastan. So we must nip the evil at its source.

The only cancer infecting pakistan is mushy,thats where we have to "nip the evil".

 

[Spring Onion]

In the long run you must take the offensive to the heartland of your opponent. In this case the heartland of Taliban is Kandhar and we must open second front to counter their pressure towards north..

And from which side do you think Kandahar is easily accessable ?

And above all why we Should attack Attack Taliban in the first place and that too acrose the border?
Give me on good reason as why Pakistan Should attack Taliban ?


I suggest keeping 45K in Wazirastan and deploying close to 100,000 troops to attack Kandhar. This will cut off their supply lines, and ease pressure on Wazirastan.

An added benefit of this thrust will be to drain BLA basis in Afghanistan that are presumably funded by aided by Indians.

forget about BLA at the moment they are not much active in the recent past due to Indians' engagments on other fronts against Pakistan.
secondly the US also knows that there are bases of BLA in Afghanistan backed and armed by India.
UK had already declared BLA a terrorist organization but USA had not due to her own intrests.

 

[Munir]

I predict that it is a matter of court tuling concerning Musharraf... I think it will be accepted by daddy USA to stop democracy for a moment and destroy terrorist cells. Otherwise the next government will do it under "democratic" regime...

Whether it is about killing brothers etc... Crap. These people are not part of Pakistan. They do kill Pakistani soldiers. They do confront Pakistan in a offensive way. I rather have them under the ground then above. We can not accept these stupid nationalistic arrogant figures in Pakistan while we have nuclear ambitions. You cannot tell thge rest of the world that nukes are safe if these terrorist keep attacking your soldiers, blowing up your electricity, oil or other goodies. Rather killed now then start another waste of time talks..

 

[Spring Onion]

I predict that it is a matter of court tuling concerning Musharraf... I think it will be accepted by daddy USA to stop democracy for a moment and destroy terrorist cells. Otherwise the next government will do it under "democratic" regime...

Whether it is about killing brothers etc... Crap. These people are not part of Pakistan. They do kill Pakistani soldiers. They do confront Pakistan in a offensive way. I rather have them under the ground then above. We can not accept these stupid nationalistic arrogant figures in Pakistan while we have nuclear ambitions. You cannot tell thge rest of the world that nukes are safe if these terrorist keep attacking your soldiers, blowing up your electricity, oil or other goodies. Rather killed now then start another waste of time talks..

Munir if you are in Think Tank than post like the one not like ordianry emotional memeber.

Coming back to your points.

1. YOu need to assert who is killing our soldiers and confronyt us offensivly?
Are thes taliban or some other elements using their name?
its such a shamful thing that when now even NATO does not call them Taliab or terrorists rather they are called anti-Coallition forces as not only Taliban but all segments of Pashtun socirty are against the presence of foreign forces.

2. You can not go all out to destroy their cells inside Afghanistan rather NATO is there it is their responsibility to do so. And even if we want we can not do that by entering Afghanistan or even initiate such air offensive.

3. Indeed the next government would have to do that and its good that now we would come to know how democratic people respond to the situation.

4. i agree that we should fight those who are attacking our soldiers and our national assests but surely we had to diffrentiate who they are?

I say go all out against Al-Qaeda they are the ones who are creating problems for us.
They are the ones who are indeed doing terrorist acts and harming peace.

 

[MIG_ACE]

What will you do if the taliban take there offensive into the heartlands of pakistan?
You must be dreaming if you think the pak army can defeat the afghan freedom fighters.
NATO with all there power is getting hammered by the taliban and the same thing is happening to the pak army in waziristan.
The same way pakistan has unilaterally scrapped the agreement jinnah had with the tribals they can do the same and call unification with there pushtoon brothers in afghanistan.
Fits into the american plan break the muslim nations into smaller states.

This doesn't really concern me or my country but your post really amused me. Are you really saying that a handful of Taliban fighters can "take the offensive into the heartland of Pakistan" and the Pak army will be powerless to stop them?? I admit the taliban are a difficult bunch to fight in their own backyard--> afghanistan and the areas of pakistan bordering it where they have support from the local populace and they know the area inside out.But inside the pakistani heartland as you put it, they'll be sh1tting in their pants if faced with an assault from the Pak army.

 

[acidwolf]

kandahar is on 1 side waziristan is on the other so god knows what pretext u r making

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

There is one major difference between the Soviet operation and the current NATO operation in Afghanistan. An aspect which I am intimately aware of. Children are going to school. Children are playing around us. Say what you want about the difficulties that we faced and our lack of resolve. No parent will ever risk his/her child.

Colonel,

You must read Khaled Hossein's " A Thousand Splendid Suns".

 

[Officer of Engineers]

Sir,

Arriving next week as we speak.

 

[antiobl]

What will you do if the taliban take there offensive into the heartlands of pakistan?.

Every military force in the world is effective only until their supply lines are intact. Once you cut the supply lines, the mightiest and bravest armies crumble like a badly made cookie.

Talibanic power is depending on logistics from the South and East. Once you cut these supply lines, Talibanic tiger will be meowing like a little pussy cat.

1. Sorry there was only one result....the russians lost.



2. If you carry on studing the anglo afghan war the british lost.



3. Your not fighting a standing army like the germans but a guerilla army that will melt away once attacked in large numbers only to regroup later and start killing the invading army.
.

Let's do this analysis in dispassionate way. If you bring emotions into scientific analysis, the results will almost always be incorrect.


1. Russians lost because of two reasons:

1a. Russians could not cut off Muj supply lines from Pakistan.

1b. US and Pakistan denied Russians the badly needed air-cover.

If it was not for the training of Pakistan and weapons (stingers) from Americans, Afghan Jihad was kapoot in 1986.

2. British may have lost some battles, but they won the wars against Afghanis in every way. Here is how.

* Afghanistan was mostly ruled by British installed mayors of Kabul. All the way from Shoojah to Zahir. Yes there were few interruptions but Afghans have been ruled by the "approved mayor". Just look at Karazai (2007)these day. There is no difference between him and Shoojah (1838). Here is 200 years of Afghan history for you.

* British successfully created a border aptly called "Durand line". Remember only victors draw the new maps and not the losers.

3. Rag-tag militias may be a bit more difficult to control as compared to the standing armies. But the militias can also be subdued. However the techniques to defeat them are different. Invention of airborne cavalry (helicopters) have practically eliminated the strong points of guerrilla tactics.

However the use of air-cavalry is only 40 years old so many armies in the world including Pakistani army are still fine tuning the effective use of airborne troops.

BTW cavalry is only one part of the game of chess. The other important factor is to deny and eliminate the supply lines of Talibanic menace. And that can only be done by attacking them from both North and South.

And from which side do you think Kandahar is easily accessable ?

And above all why we Should attack Attack Taliban in the first place and that too acrose the border? Give me on good reason as why Pakistan Should attack Taliban ?

It is not the matter of "easy access". Kandhar the Talibanic heartland must be attacked from both North (NATO) and South (Pakistan).

Pakistan must attack and eliminate Talibanic cancer. Otherwise our troops will continue to be bogged down in Wazirastan.

 

[Spring Onion]

Every military force in the world is effective only until their supply lines are intact. Once you cut the supply lines, the mightiest and bravest armies crumble like a badly made cookie.

Very right we had seen that during Kargil and we crumbled but thats a separat issue. However your suggestion regarding attacking Kandahar does not apply to the Afghan conflict for reasons.

Taliban are not some invading Army. They are the citizens of Afghanistan.
secondly they are fighting the foreign rule.
And the number of Afghan civilians are killed NATO strikes is like 10% to 90% as compare to those killed in attacks by Taliban.

It is not the matter of "easy access". Kandhar the Talibanic heartland must be attacked from both North (NATO) and South (Pakistan).

Pakistan must attack and eliminate Talibanic cancer. Otherwise our troops will continue to be bogged down in Wazirastan.

Kandahar is not only consists of Taliban but it is home to hundreds of ordinary Afghans who are already harrased by air-attacks.

Had you been to Kandahar ? and talk to the people there ? if not than you can not claim presence of miscreants only there. The Kandahar people are happy with Taliban.
There is much easy access to justice and the poppy had come down to zero level unlike other areas under NATO where they had been overlooking the 100% growth of poppy which at the end is hitting their own donkas in the world market.



Why Pakistan should attack the Afghan Citizens they were, nor they are our enemies so why should we attack them for the sake of others.
As far killings of our soldiers, Taliban are not the major attackers in this case. There are many factors and many players we need to plug those holes not to go blindly against Taliban inside Afghanistan.

NATO is overlooking the inflirteration of Anti-Pakistan elements (and these are not Taliban).