Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

[Mahmoud_EGY]

I guess sir U might need Ataturk not us cuz we got Holy Quran and the Sunnah of Rasool Allah (صلى الله عليه وسل&#1605.....And Alhamdolillah we are doing excellent in our fields.....

so anyone doesnt want caliphate is infadel ?

 

[laiqs@mi]

This blinding attitude is what taking the Pakistan down...as long as we have the book we are doing fine..not to mention tens are dying by drone attacks each weeks for crimes they did not commit...just because one dumb f_ck ummah lover decided to seek refugee in their land and teach them some lessons in brotherhood.

that dumb f_ck ummah lover was once america's apple of eye. american's did not needed usama to attack Afghanistan if it was not usama they would have found some other reason, what do you think about WMD in iraq????

 

[King Solomon]

The Ummah is all over the place!

Continue to live in your fairy world.

Our retarded education system teaches that we are Muslims first and then everything else - not much different than the commies...much of this Ummah ideology was a direct uplift from commies...and they funded it well too. Just look how the ummah believers were all commies in closets..starting with Bhutto, Saddam, Ghaddafi, Bashar, etc etc.....

This is a very bad concept. If you look at the Koran, you will see that for charity, it is specially urged that you pay charity to your needy family members first before even considering giving charity to outsiders.

What does this mean? Help yourselves first before even thinking of helping others. Yes, your "brothers" in religion elsewhere may be in a worse situation but you are in no position to help them when your own house is not in order. Especially for a poor country like pakistan, such help is out of question.

The political leadership use such sentiments to manipulate people. They blackmail people like "if you don't help your brother you are Kafir" and use it to meet their own ends.

 

[laiqs@mi]

Well said! You've stepped into troubled waters though!

I have seen several posts on PDF where Pakistanis were given a choice to prioritize whether to defend Islam or Pakistan first. Most Pakistani posters said they will first defend Islam and the Ummah and then only Pakistan!

Now that sucks! How do these worthies intend to 'defend' Islam? So, let's say if Islam is in danger in Saudi Arabia, will they run there with unsheathed swords to behead unseen 'infidels' when Pakistan is under physical attack from an adversary?

So much for so called 'Patriotism' of many Pakistanis! For them its religion and the Muslim Ummah first, always and every time. The country comes next.

I thought it should be the other way around?

you hindus are banyas you only know 2+2=4 how could you feel what a muslim feels???
you are better doing your business rather commenting about Ummah (a pure Islamic concept) and i tell you most of the muslims would like to defend KSA rather then their home if KSA face trouble.
and for me Islam is always first but pakistan is based on islam so pakistan is equaly important.

 

[darkinsky]

Even if he is a criminal or terrorist??

Your kind of jamatis are directly responsible for the suffering of Pakistan and its people today...

Eliminate Jamatis and you free up an entire nation from mental slavery..the very same principle Ataturk had to adapt..the place of religion is mosque..not parliament...there is not such thing as ummah...it is a medieval concept used to create ruled and ruling class..Instead of taking the theka of every Muslims..we should concentrate properly on our own country men and that is simply enough...why don't you question the other nations regarding their brotherhood, especially those who are front line states of ummah ideology propagation and some of them happens to be too oil rich as well...

Our retarded education system teaches that we are Muslims first and then everything else - not much different than the commies...much of this Ummah ideology was a direct uplift from commies...and they funded it well too. Just look how the ummah believers were all commies in closets..starting with Bhutto, Saddam, Ghaddafi, Bashar, etc etc.....

why do you like apple cumot??

 

[somebozo]

that dumb f_ck ummah lover was once america's apple of eye. american's did not needed usama to attack Afghanistan if it was not usama they would have found some other reason, what do you think about WMD in iraq????

Out of 53 countries, AQ found refugee only in places where people were led by jahil jamati mullahs using blind sensationalism..why couldn't OBL and AQ get any support in countries like Turkey, Malaysia, Indonesia, Azerbaijan, Iran, Bangladesh, etc

At one point we have to start taking responsibility..if we cant stop committing follies on our end that will continue to give a chance to foreign invaders...

 

[Tiger Awan]

Our retarded education system teaches that we are Muslims first and then everything else - not much different than the commies...much of this Ummah ideology was a direct uplift from commies...and they funded it well too. Just look how the ummah believers were all commies in closets..starting with Bhutto, Saddam, Ghaddafi, Bashar, etc etc.....

if you take these people as an example then ....

you are asking us to abandon a system never implemented in our country. I think we should also abandon democracy. What it has given to us? Corrupt leaders, poor economy etc etc etc

 

[kobiraaz]

Well said! You've stepped into troubled waters though!

I have seen several posts on PDF where Pakistanis were given a choice to prioritize whether to defend Islam or Pakistan first. Most Pakistani posters said they will first defend Islam and the Ummah and then only Pakistan!

Now that sucks! How do these worthies intend to 'defend' Islam? So, let's say if Islam is in danger in Saudi Arabia, will they run there with unsheathed swords to behead unseen 'infidels' when Pakistan is under physical attack from an adversary?

So much for so called 'Patriotism' of many Pakistanis! For them its religion and the Muslim Ummah first, always and every time. The country comes next.

I thought it should be the other way around?

don't know about pakistanis.. If someone attacks Kaba and Bangladesh at the same time, i would definitely run towards Kaba! And most of my friends would do the same! I am proud to tell you that!

 

[neutral_person]

Finally a sensible post.

Don't blame Islam. Blame how you/we have followed it, and interpreted it according to your/our own petty needs.

I have heard this argument so many times by people (unsuccessfully) trying to defend why Islam seems to have so many extremists compared to other religions. If the Koran is interpreted wrongly so easily by so many Muslims who do crimes in the name of Islam, maybe some of that fault lies in the Koran (as well as the person) that it can so easily breed hate. In the end of the day, actions speak louder than words, and you will be judged by others on what you do, not what you think you should do.

Just my $0.02.

Disclaimer: This is a pretty controversial topic. My intention is not to hurt feelings, but to debate this issue. Sorry in advance if I offend anyone, but post rational arguments on the topic rather than personal insults.

 

[PakiRambo]

Tell me first, why do you consider yourself a muslim? Do you believe in God? Do you believe in the after-life? God has mentioned to stick with the Ummah, regardless of creed, race or culture.

Are you here to please yourself and your own worldly interests, and your own country?
Or is your purpose as a Muslim to please God?

Some food for thought before blatantly saying to abandon the Ummah.
If you consider yourself a muslim, and nationality comes first before Muslim Brotherhood/Ummah for you, then may God guide you.

Remember, if you believe in your religion, then you would know when you leave this world, you aren't going to be keeping your belongings/wealth/passports etc.

You're going to be considered as either a MUSLIM or a NON-MUSLIM.

Some food for thought.

Qur'ān, “Indeed the believers are brothers.” (49:10)
“O you who believe! Avoid most of the suspicious [thoughts about other Muslims].” (49:12)
“Do not find fault with your own Muslim brothers.” (49:11)

So, now instead of picking out faults and blaming other muslim countries for our situation, why don't we continue to spread our hospitality and support for other muslim countries? Even muslim countries who don't openly admit it (like Saudia Arabia) get a lot of help from Pakistan (in terms of expatriate workers, revenue from Hajj/Umrah Pilgrims, businesses and medical doctors etc.) As Pakistanis & Muslims, we should always stay with the Ummah even if other muslims aren't showing their gratitude or supporting us during rough times. God is watching and he knows best. Our intentions must be good always and we shouldn't abandon the Ummah, something which is a very important part of our religion.

All in all, if you're a true believer, Ummah should come first for you. This doesn't mean that you completely dis-regard your own nationality and patriotism for your country, but don't let that override your allegiance to the Ummah.

 

[AfshanK]

طالبان:
براہ مہربانی مندرجہ ذیل لنک پر 2009 میں صحافی طلعت حسین کو اے این پی کے رہنما افضل خان لالہ کے دیۓ گۓ انٹرويو کو سنیں، جو اس
وقت پاکستان کی وفاقی کابينہ کا حصہ تھے جب طالبان افغانستان ميں برسراقتدار آ رہے تھے:

افغانستان میں طالبان اور انکے ارتقاء کے بارے میں جو انہوں نے 6:50 پر کہا سنیں:

1/3 Real situation in Swat - Afzal Khan Lala (ANP) - May 4, 2009 - YouTube

القائدہ:

القائدہ نے امریکہ کے خلاف 1990 میں جنگ کا اعلان کیا اور 1990 میں امریکی اہداف پر کئی بار حملے کیۓ۔ امریکی وطن پر 11 ستمبر کو القائدہ کی طرف سے حملہ کیا گیا تھا اور ہزاروں معصوم لوگوں کو قتل کيا گيا۔ 9/11 کے حملوں کے بعد، امریکہ اور دوسرے بین الاقوامی دوست ممالک نے القائدہ کے محفوظ ٹھکانوں کو ختم کرنے اور افغانی علاقے کودنيا بھرميں دہشتگرد سرگرميوں کيلۓ استعمال سے روکنے کيلۓ افغانستان گئے تھے۔ امريکہ اور ان کے اتحادی قوت کے استعمال پر مجبور ہو گئے تھے، کيونکہ اس وقت کی طالبان حکومت کو القائدہ کے دہشتگرد عناصر کو حوالے کرنے کے لئے اور افغانستان کی زمين کو دنیا بھر میں دہشت گردی کی سرگرمیوں کے لئے استعمال سے روکنے کے لۓ مطالبہ کيا گیا، جسے انہوں نے مسترد کيا ۔ حقیقت میں اقوام متحدہ نے 1999 میں طالبان حکومت سے اسامہ بن لادن کو حوالہ کرنے کا مطالبہ کیا تھا۔
القائدہ کے بانی رہنما اسامہ بن لادن کا نام مئی 2011 ميں مرنے تک ایف بی آئی کے مشہور دہشت گردوں کی لسٹ ميں سب سے اوپر تھا
میں اس بات کو یقینی طور سے کہہ سکتی ہوں کہ سی آئی اے کا القائدہ کے ساتھ کسی بھی قسم کا تعلق نہیں تھا ۔ اس کے علاوہ آپ کے پاس کوئی بھی ثبوت نہیں ہے کہ القائدہ سی آئی اے سے منسلک تھی۔ امریکہ کا مقصد القائدہ اور اس کے ملحقہ گروہوں کو شکست دینے اور دنیا کو ایک زیادہ محفوظ اور پرامن جگہ بنانے کا ہی ہے۔

افشاں - ڈيجيٹل آؤٹ ريچ ٹيم – يو ايس اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمينٹ
digitaloutreach@state.gov
U.S. Department of State
​

 

[ashokdeiva]

I think the more the talk about UMMAH arrises the more the fight happens between the different sects of Muslims as to who is the real muslim or who is the hire to the Prophets teaching.
Keeping ones religion out of state policies to the max extent as possible except a few scenarios will do wonders to PAKISTAN. Just my two cents.
All is in the hand of PAKISTANIS on how they wish to see their country after 10 years from now.

 

[PakiRambo]

I think the more the talk about UMMAH arrises the more the fight happens between the different sects of Muslims as to who is the real muslim or who is the hire to the Prophets teaching.
Keeping ones religion out of state policies to the max extent as possible except a few scenarios will do wonders to PAKISTAN. Just my two cents.
All is in the hand of PAKISTANIS on how they wish to see their country after 10 years from now.

Religion will always influence state policies in Pakistan. Especially, a religion like Islam. However, the problem lies wherein the laws aren't properly being forced. If the laws of Islam were enforced and followed, Pakistan would be the safest country in the world.

Let's examine some basic laws of which the politicians and the masses aren't even following.

Zardari doesn't even follow financial laws. He recently gave away $1m to India (Ajmer Sharif), which could have been donated to starving Pakistanis and flood victims. He is probably the most corrupt politician Pakistan has ever had, and nobody even knows how much this guy stole from Pakistan and put into his Swiss bank account.

Secondly, there are extremists and mullahs from Pakistan & Afghanistan who are preaching hatred for different sects, preaching Anti-American propaganda and brainwashing children into believing that killing innocents and participating in suicide bombing is a form of Jihad. The Quran clearly states that to take an innocent's life, is as if you have killed the whole of humanity.

Thirdly, there are terrorists who have planned attacks (and killed hundreds of people) living and walking freely in Pakistan and Afghanistan. In the law of Islam, murderers should be killed- and that is exactly what these murderers deserve! This form of equal punishment will inhibit others from committing such acts and will satisfy the relatives of the killed person. If the murderer is not killed, the relatives of the murdered might avenge their death and more killings will undoubtedly follow, giving way to much destruction that could be avoided by applying the basic Islam Law. Reference: http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=82479

 

[ashokdeiva]

Religion will always influence state policies in Pakistan. Especially, a religion like Islam.

If the laws of Islam were actually followed, Pakistan wouldn't a mess.

Let's examine some basic laws of which the politicians and the masses aren't even following.

Zardari doesn't even follow financial laws. He recently gave away $1m to India (Ajmer Sharif), which could have been donated to starving Pakistanis and flood victims. He is probably the most corrupt politician Pakistan has ever had, and nobody even knows how much this guy stole from Pakistan and put into his Swiss bank account.

Secondly, there are extremists and mullahs who are preaching hatred for different sects, preaching Anti-American propaganda and brainwashing children into believing that killing innocents and participating in suicide bombing is a form of Jihad. The Quran clearly states that to take an innocent's life, is as if you have killed the whole of humanity.

if you belive that man evolves every step he takes than i see its not worthy to follow any religious ideas in the STATE policy. The 1 million that he gave here in INDIA is not that he donated to some non believers, he gave it to MUSLIMS in INDIA, the idea of running state with out bias is a ideal idea but its not possible in reality as a leader he/she has to take sides and in doing so he takes a hefty cash ment for the people to his/he own self.
Second pointing ZARDARI for your mess is a way of revealing that you are impotent, its just my idea never to show some as a defaulter when I could have done some thing about it.
As far the MULLAH part is concerned, will you guys renounce them, its not a posibility because as per your belief they are the ones who are appointed to preserve the code of ISLAMIC conduct.

 

[user1]

My POV from a non-religious angle:

No man is an island and neither is a nation.

In this inter-dependent world (a community of nations), in order to progress we need to make alliances and in order for those alliances to be fruitful, some things need to be sacrificed or shared - ideologies, resources, human capital.

It is as simple as that.

It just depends upon you how you choose your ally.

Obviously you will choose the nations/nationals which will feel some kinship/affinity with you and treat you better than other nations which just consider you to be a potential resource for the future incursions.

The kinship/help that we (Pakistanis) have witnessed in the times of need, whether wars or natural disasters or financial crises, has almost always surpassed the other nations with which we do not have a bond of Islam. They - the other Muslim nations - turn out to be our 'Natural Allies'.

Look at European Union, why does it not allow Turkiye to become a member; it has allowed membership to nations which committed ethnic cleansing and genocide in a not so distant past. They consider Turkiye not to be a 'Natural Ally'. If Turkiye with world's 15th largest economy is not allowed while Serbia with 76th economy is allowed, it should be clear as a day where do we stand in the community of nations when we try to forge new alliances.

'Gentlemen we must all hang together or we shall most assuredly all hang separately'.