Time is running short for "drone strikes" in Pakistan!
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ajpirzada
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yes i do think so. kayani wont do anything if zardari doesnt tell him to do that. thats the need of the time and he understands it.
Gokul
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Give me links to credible sites to prove this claim... I mean sites that can tell me for sure that the people dying are civilians.... I dont want news sites, pak government sites or blogs... anything apart from that will do.... preferably neutral (neither pakistani, nor US, nor Indian)
I am willing to accept your claim, but I need enough proof that civilians are dying...
Because, the civilians and taliban in the north western regions are dressed the same, no difference, after a person is dead, you can just remove the guns from next to him to claim he's just a civilian....
Or, conversely, after killing a civilian, you can plant a gun next to him to claim that he's a terrorist...
Either way, I want PROOF !!!
ajpirzada
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loolll..... well i wont really expect u to give a $hit abotu pakistanis dyin. anyways i have tried to answer ur question in one of my previous posts
belarusian
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the way to think about this is that pakistan is the patient and america is an incompetent doctor who usually winds up killing his patients.
ajpirzada
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y dont u give me a proof that 70% of those dyin are militants. i think this is more important. u cannt keep on killing everyone on the basis of suspicion. and wat kind of proof do u want other than news reports. i cant tell the dead to come and tell u they were civillians.
duhastmish
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right said fred! crazy but true.
Jihad
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If I take a look at your avatar, and if that's really you, I definitely wouldn't mind civilians e.g. you dieing for a "greater good".
It's easy to talk about sacrifices, lets see you make one, or one of your loved ones, you'll squeek a little different then.
duhastmish
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sirIf I take a look at your avatar, and if that's really you, I definitely wouldn't mind civilians e.g. you dieing for a "greater good".
It's easy to talk about sacrifices, lets see you make one, or one of your loved ones, you'll squeek a little different then.
i would like to send some of loved one - like MR MODI, mr raj thankre , bal thakre, mayawati, and last but not the least Barkha dutt!! he he he he
good responce btw.
mr gokul - nobody want to let die their own for any cost. Pakistan will talk loud but unfortunate for them they don't have a good leader to take action right now. they could have done with Mr Musharraf .
Gokul
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I'm not the one making the claims, so if you want support from the world, YOU need to give proof that 70% killed are civilians.... its not my problem, its yours, so start finding evidence that you can give to US to make them stop...
NEWS REPORTS ARE NOT CREDIBLE !!!
If you think your news reports are credible, then ours are too, then you must immediately arrest everybody named in Indian news reports as collaborators in Mumbai attacks and imprison them...
If you want to argue for credibility of your news reports, I too can play that game...One of my uncles is a Wing Commander in the Air Force and another uncle is in the Navy... so dont talk about sacrifices...
I also personally knew the ATS Chief who was killed by terrorists from ur soil (possibly the same guy in custody even since it was in an enounter with Ajmal and Ismail that he was killed).... He was the uncle of my current classmate in post-graduation... so it was a personal loss for us too.... so dont talk about sacrifices... Indians have made more than their fair share... and when the terrorists want to hit back at their creator, you want to claim co-victim status ??? hahahahaha....
Jihad
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I'm not the one making the claims, so if you want support from the world, YOU need to give proof that 70% killed are civilians.... its not my problem, its yours, so start finding evidence that you can give to US to make them stop...
NEWS REPORTS ARE NOT CREDIBLE !!!
If you think your news reports are credible, then ours are too, then you must immediately arrest everybody named in Indian news reports as collaborators in Mumbai attacks and imprison them...
One of my uncles is a Wing Commander in the Air Force and another uncle is in the Navy... so dont talk about sacrifices...
I also personally knew the ATS Chief who was killed by terrorists from ur soil (possibly the same guy in custody even since it was in an enounter with Ajmal and Ismail that he was killed).... He was the uncle of my current classmate in post-graduation... so it was a personal loss for us too.... so dont talk about sacrifices... Indians have made more than their fair share... and when the terrorists want to hit back at their creator, you want to claim co-victim status ??? hahahahaha....
Neither one of your uncles have died.
Not one of your close relatives or loved ones have died.
It is really easy of you to talk about sacrifices, don't talk so easily about innocent Pakistani civilians dieing because it is for a "greater good", you have some nerves and an obvious lack of respect for the families of the victims.
Jihad
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I have no problem with your picture, you look like a kissing-fresh youngman who would likely make any sacrifice for the "greater good".
ajpirzada
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I'm not the one making the claims, so if you want support from the world, YOU need to give proof that 70% killed are civilians.... its not my problem, its yours, so start finding evidence that you can give to US to make them stop...
NEWS REPORTS ARE NOT CREDIBLE !!!
If you think your news reports are credible, then ours are too, then you must immediately arrest everybody named in Indian news reports as collaborators in Mumbai attacks and imprison them...
One of my uncles is a Wing Commander in the Air Force and another uncle is in the Navy... so dont talk about sacrifices...
I also personally knew the ATS Chief who was killed by terrorists from ur soil (possibly the same guy in custody even since it was in an enounter with Ajmal and Ismail that he was killed).... He was the uncle of my current classmate in post-graduation... so it was a personal loss for us too.... so dont talk about sacrifices... Indians have made more than their fair share... and when the terrorists want to hit back at their creator, you want to claim co-victim status ??? hahahahaha....
check out the thread which talks about the recent drone attack and ull find out how many ppl killed were actually militants. and the whole world says drone attacks are counter productive coz they already know they are only killing civillians. britian and other western countries have said it in public.
also when there is no proof of those gettin killed are mostly millitants then u cant justify such strikes. wat u r sayin is if there is no proof of those gettin killed are civillians then kill everyone. if that is how world starts thinking then ull only see blood everywhere.
batmannow
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Gokul;
HERE ARE SOME OF PROVES , WHAT YOU ARE WONDRING IN WILD?mr james bond
US Air Strikes in Somalia Condemned for Killing Innocent Civilians
global policy fourm.org.com
By Aaron Glantz
OneWorld
January 21, 2007
According to the human rights organization Oxfam, U.S. and Ethiopian air strikes in Somalia last week killed 70 nomadic herdsmen who had no connection to any international terrorist group, including al-Qaeda, which the Pentagon said was the target of its attacks. "There were no combatants amongst them," Oxfam's Wyger Wentholt said from neighboring Kenya. "We suppose that it was a mistake and that they were wrongfully targeted," he said. "It could possibly be related to a bonfire that the herdsmen had lit at night, but that's something they normally do to keep animals and mosquitoes away from their herd." Oxfam received its information from local Somali organizations that have been providing communities in the country's Afmadow district with emergency medical supplies, essential household items, and water chlorination services, as well as distributing food in areas where food is not locally available. Wenthold said essential water sources were also damaged in the bombing. The United Nations' refugee agency, UNHCR, also reported that an estimated 100 people were wounded by U.S. AC-130 gun-ships firing on the Somalia-Kenya border area of Ras Kamboni.
The human rights organization Amnesty International also protested the air strikes, noting that international humanitarian law prohibits direct attacks on civilians as well as attacks that do not distinguish between military targets and civilians, and those that, although aimed at a military target, have a disproportionate impact on civilians or civilian objects. "We are concerned that civilians may have been killed as a result of a failure to comply with international humanitarian law," Amnesty's Claudio Cordones said in a statement. "What we want to know from the U.S. government is whether their forces took the necessary precautions to distinguish between civilians and combatants when they chose the means and methods of their attack." "Air power is notoriously indiscriminate," added Sarah Holewinksi of the Campaign for Innocent Victims of Conflict, or CIVIC. "The U.S. military and their Ethiopian and Somali counterparts should take all precautions to distinguish between civilians and combatants." Holewinski's group, which successfully convinced Washington policy-makers to mandate compensation for innocent civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, urged military planners in Somalia "to adequately assess the risk to civilians before launching air attacks and to evaluate their success following the attack." Such an assessment, CIVC said, would include keeping a full count of civilians harmed. Currently, the U.S. does not keep an official count of civilian casualties in Somalia or compensate innocent victims of its air strikes there.
The U.S. air strikes came after a ground invasion of 30,000 Ethiopian soldiers that ousted the Union of Islamic Courts from power and restored a UN-backed government in Mogadishu. That government is now working with neo-conservative policy analysts in Washington to press for ongoing support from the U.S. government. At a forum at the American Enterprise Institute Thursday, Dahir Mirreh Jibreel, a representative of the new Somali government, asked Washington to establish an embassy in Mogadishu, to encourage private U.S. investment in Somalia, and to press for congressional approval of Somalia stabilization and reconstruction legislation. Shortly after the transitional government overthrew the Union of Islamic Courts, the Bush administration made an initial down payment of $40 million in revitalization assistance for Somalia. About $16 million was earmarked for humanitarian assistance, $14 million put toward a multinational peacekeeping force whose deployment is still pending, and $10 million was allocated for development aid. "The situation is not yet calming down," cautioned Oxfam's Wentholt. "There are indications that conflict will persist and I think that depends a lot on what comes out of the political developments."
Since late December, Oxfam estimates violence in Somalia has forced an estimated 70,000 people from their homes, and has exacerbated an already dire humanitarian situation. Last year, Somalia was hit first by severe drought and then the worst flooding in 50 years, leaving some 400,000 people homeless.
US 'killed 47 Afghan civilians'
Page last updated at 14:14 GMT, Friday, 11 July 2008 15:14 UK
BBC.UK.COM
Medical staff help a boy injured in Sunday's attack
A US air strike in eastern Afghanistan on Sunday killed 47 civilians, 39 of them women and children, an Afghan government investigating team says.
Reports at the time said that 20 people were killed in the airstrike in Nangarhar province. The US military said they were militants.
But local people said the dead were wedding party guests.
Correspondents say the issue of civilian casualties is hugely sensitive in Afghanistan.
President Hamid Karzai has said that no civilian casualty is acceptable.
Demand for trial
Mr Karzai set up a nine-man commission to look into Sunday's incident.
The commission is headed by Senate deputy speaker, Burhanullah Shinwari whose constituency is in Nangarhar province. He told the BBC: ''Our investigation found out that 47 civilians (were killed) by the American bombing and nine others injured.
Concern over Afghan civilian deaths
"There are 39 women and children" among those killed, he said. The eight other people who died were "between the ages of 14 and 18".
A spokeswoman for the US coalition, Lt Rumi Nielson-Green told the AFP news agency that the force was also investigating the incident and regretted any loss of civilian life. "We never target non-combatants. We do go to great length to avoid civilian casualties," she said.
At the time the US said that those killed were militants involved in previous mortar attacks on a Nato base.
The incident happened in the remote district of Deh Bala, close to the Afghan border.
Mirwais Yasini, deputy speaker for the lower house of parliament, also has his constituency in Nangarhar. ''We are very sad about the killings in Deh Bala. People should be compensated," he told the BBC.
"These operations widen the gap between the people and the government."
He said that those who passed on intelligence to the US military ahead of the air strike should be tried, "as well as those who carried out the bombing".
Mr Yasini demanded that "all operations should be conducted in full co-operation with our security forces in the future".
'Ashamed'
Correspondents say most civilian deaths in Afghanistan are caused by Taleban fighters and other militants opposed to President Karzai and US and Nato-led forces. On Monday a suicide attack on the Indian embassy in Kabul killed 41 people, most of them civilians.
However, foreign troops have also often killed civilians, leading to an erosion of support for their presence in Afghanistan.
Last year a US army spokesman said he was "deeply ashamed" after US marines killed 19 civilians near Jalalabad in Nangarhar province.
Only a few months earlier, a Nato spokesman said that civilian casualties were the main issue for the Nato-led force to resolve.
"I believe the single thing that we have done wrong and we are striving extremely hard to improve on is killing innocent civilians," Brig Richard Nugee said.
President Karzai has been scathing in his criticism over the deaths of Afghan civilians, even summoning foreign commanders in May, 2007 to tell them "that the patience of the Afghan people is wearing thin with the continued killing of innocent civilians".
Two days ago, the Red Cross said that at least 250 Afghan civilians had been killed or wounded in insurgent attacks or military action in the previous six days. It called on all parties to the conflict to avoid civilian casualties.
US Strike Kills 78 Afghans, Afghan President Says Most Were Civilians
ShareThisJASON STRAZIUSO and RAHIM FAIEZ |
August 24, 2008 06:38 AM EST |
HuffingtonPost.com
KABUL, Afghanistan Scores of Afghan civilians who had gathered in a small village for the memorial ceremony of a militia commander were killed when U.S. and Afghan soldiers launched an attack in the middle of the night, officials and villagers said Saturday.
President Hamid Karzai condemned the early Friday operation in western Afghanistan and said most of the dead were civilians. The U.S. coalition, however, said it believed only five civilians were among those killed and said that it would investigate the Afghan claims.
An Afghan human rights group that visited the site of the operation said Saturday that at least 78 people were killed. The Ministry of Interior has said 76 civilians died, including 50 children under the age of 15, though the Ministry of Defense said 25 militants and five civilians were killed.
Meanwhile, a school principal and police official said Afghan soldiers tried to hand out food and clothes Saturday in Azizabad _ the village in Herat province where the operation took place. But villagers started throwing stones at the soldiers, who then fired on the villagers and wounded up to eight people.
An Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission researcher visited Azizabad in Herat province and found that 15 houses had been destroyed and others were damaged, said Ahmad Nader Nadery, the group's commissioner.
Nadery said the information was preliminary and the group would publish a final report. He did not provide a breakdown of how many were civilians or militants, and said 20 women were among the dead and that children also were killed.
Nadery confirmed reports from villagers that a memorial ceremony was being held for a deputy militia commander allied with the Afghan police named Timor Shah, who had died in a personal dispute several months ago. Because of the memorial, relatives and friends from outside Azizabad were staying overnight in village homes, he said.
An AP photographer who visited Azizabad on Saturday said he saw at least 20 graves, including some graves with multiple bodies in them. He said he saw around 20 houses that had been destroyed.
Originally the U.S. coalition said the battle killed 30 militants, including a wanted Taliban commander, but U.S. coalition spokeswoman Rumi Nielson-Green said Saturday that five civilians _ two women and three children connected to the militants _ were among the dead.
The U.S. said it would investigate.
"Obviously there's allegations and a disconnect here. The sooner we can get that cleared up and get it official, the better off we'll all be," said U.S. coalition spokesman 1st Lt. Nathan Perry. "We had people on the ground."
The competing claims by the U.S. coalition and the two Afghan ministries were impossible to verify because of the remote and dangerous location of the battle site.
Complicating the matter, Afghan officials are known to exaggerate civilian death claims for political payback, to qualify for more compensation money from the U.S. or because of pressure from the Taliban.
Still, the U.S. has killed dozens of civilians in past strikes even though it first denied any civilians had been hit.
In early July, U.S. bombs killed 47 civilians walking to a wedding party in Nuristan province, according to the findings of a government commission.
The U.S. military originally said it believed only combatants had been killed, and suggested that reports of civilians deaths were based on propaganda from militants. The U.S. later acknowledged that there may have been civilian casualties but never gave a specific number.
Civilian deaths creates massive amounts of pressure on Karzai, and on Saturday the president said his government would soon announce "necessary measures" to prevent civilian casualties, but provided no details.
Ghulam Azrat, 50, the director of the middle school in Azizabad, said he collected 60 bodies Friday morning after the bombing.
"We put the bodies in the main mosque," he told The Associated Press by phone, sometimes pausing to collect himself in between tears. "Most of these dead bodies were children and women. It took all morning to collect them."
Azrat said villagers on Saturday threw stones at Afghan soldiers who tried to give food and clothes to them. He said the soldiers fired into the crowd and wounded eight people, including one child critically wounded.
"The people were very angry," he said. "They told the soldiers, 'We don't need your food, we don't need your clothes. We want our children. We want our relatives. Can you give it to us? You cannot, so go away.'"
A spokesman for Afghan police in western Afghanistan, Rauf Ahmadi, confirmed that the demonstration took place against the soldiers, who he said fired into the air. Ahmadi said two Afghans were wounded by the gunfire.
The early Friday operation was led by Afghan National Army commandos, with support from the coalition, Nielson-Green said.
It was launched after an intelligence report that a Taliban commander, Mullah Siddiq, was inside the compound presiding over a meeting of militants, Defense Ministry spokesman Gen. Mohammad Zahir Azimi said. Siddiq was one of those killed during the raid, Azimi said.
More than 3,500 people _ mostly militants _ have been killed in insurgency-related violence this year, according to figures from Western and Afghan officials.
On Saturday, a roadside bomb killed 10 civilians as they rode in a small bus in southern Kandahar province, according to an Afghan police chief, Matiullah Khan. Roadside bombs are typically aimed at Afghan and NATO troops but often are triggered early and kill civilians.
On Sunday, U.S.-led coalition troops clashed with a group of Taliban fighters in northern Afghanistan, killing six militants, said Rahimullah safi, an Afghan provincial official.
The troops were attacked by militants while on patrol in the volatile Tagab valley of the northern Kapisa province before returning fire, said 1st Lt. Nathan Perry, a coalition spokesman. Perry said "multiple militants" were killed.
Tagab is close to where militants killed 10 French troops on Tuesday in the deadliest ground attack on foreign troops since the Taliban were ousted from power in 2001.
US-led troops accused of killing 22 civilians
Written by Quqnoos.com
Sunday, 06 July 2008 01:59
Governor of eastern province says air-strike killed innocent civilians
THE GOVERNOR of Nuristan has accused US-led forces of killing 22 innocent civilians in an air-strike against suspected rebels.
The US-led coalition said Fridays air-strike in a remote district of Nuristan near the Pakistani border had killed militants accused of firing mortars at a US military base earlier in the day.
Helicopters tracked down the rebels and destroyed the two vehicles they were travelling in, the US-led coalition spokesman Lieutenant Nathan Perry said.
But Tamim Nuristani, the governor of Nuristan, said 22 civilians had been killed. "This afternoon, two civilian vehicles were hit by airstrikes," Nuristani said.
The US-led coalition failed to say how many people died in the air-strike.
U.S. Airstrike Reported to Hit Afghan Wedding
ABDUL WAHEED WAFA and JOHN F. BURNS
Published: November 5, 2008
The New York Times.COM
KABUL, Afghanistan Tensions between American forces and the Afghan government over civilian casualties from coalition airstrikes spiked again on Wednesday with a report by Afghan officials that a missile from a United States aircraft had killed 40 civilians and wounded 28 others at a wedding party in the southern province of Kandahar.
Afghan officials said casualties from the airstrike, on Monday, included women and children. The United States military command said it was conducting an urgent investigation with the Afghan Interior Ministry. Although the commands statement made no mention of a missile strike or any death toll, it appeared to acknowledge the possibility that noncombatants had been killed.
Though facts are unclear at this point, we take very seriously our responsibility to protect the people of Afghanistan and to avoid circumstances where noncombatant civilians are placed at risk, the command said. If innocent people were killed in this operation, we apologize and express our condolences to the families and people of Afghanistan.
The episode in Kandahar followed others this year in which American airstrikes in some of the wars most hotly contested battle zones killed civilians.
The report of the missile strike, in Shah Wali Kot, a rural district north of the city of Kandahar, prompted a renewed protest from the Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, who referred to the episode at a news conference on Wednesday that was called to congratulate Senator Barack Obama on his election victory.
The fight against terrorism cannot be won by bombardment of our villages, Mr. Karzai said. My first demand from the U.S. president, when he takes office, would be to end civilian casualties in Afghanistan and take the war to places where there are terrorist nests and training centers.
In one of the worst cases of civilian deaths by an American strike this year, an attack aimed at a meeting of Taliban insurgent leaders on Aug. 22 killed at least 33 civilians, according to a Pentagon inquiry. Other investigators said the numbers were much higher. According to an Afghan parliamentary investigation, an airstrike in July in the eastern province of Nangarhar also struck a wedding, killing 47 civilians, including the bride.
An initial American military inquiry into the August attack, in the western province of Herat, said only five to seven civilians had died when an American AC-130 gunship attacked the nighttime Taliban meeting, contradicting Afghan and United Nations reports that as many as 90 civilians had died.
The ensuing furor among Afghans, including an angry protest by President Karzai, prompted the top American commander in the country, Gen. David D. McKiernan, to order a second investigation, which raised the civilian death toll to 33.
General McKiernan also ordered a tightening of procedures for launching airstrikes and reporting promptly and accurately on civilian casualties. He has said that minimizing civilian casualties is crucial to turning the worsening tide of the war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
Zalmay Ayoby, a spokesman for the governor of Kandahar, said the strike on Monday took place when Taliban and American-led forces were engaged in a firefight near the village of Wegh Bakhtu. He said that an airstrike was called in after the Taliban opened fire on a coalition unit, and that a missile struck a compound where a wedding party was being held.
Unfortunately we should say that an airstrike on a wedding party had killed and injured a huge number of people in Shah Wali Kot, he said.
Ahmed Wali Karzai, a brother of the Afghan president and leader of the provincial council in Kandahar, said that there were civilian casualties, but that it was unclear how many people had died. He said he had spoken with some people wounded in the attack who had been admitted to Kandahars main hospital. They told him that as many as 32 civilians had been admitted, including women and children from the wedding party, he said.
Dr. Qudratullah Hakimi of the Mirwais Hospital in Kandahar said by telephone that the hospital admitted 22 women and 6 children after the attack. The childrens ages were 1 to 11, he said. He said the bride had had an operation and was stable. He said that his patients had reported that up to 90 people were killed or wounded, and that some were buried under the rubble, although this could not be independently confirmed.
In Washington on Wednesday, the Campaign for Innocent Victims in Conflict, an advocacy group, urged President-elect Obama to appoint a senior Pentagon official to oversee policies to help avoid civilian casualties.
Sarah Holewinski, the groups executive director, said the official could make sure proven techniques to avoid civilians are in place and constantly improved, maintain proper investigative and statistical data on civilian harm in combat zones, and ensure prompt compensation to civilians unintentionally harmed by American combat operations.
Ms. Holewinski said in a telephone interview that she had been discussing the idea with advisers to Mr. Obama over the past six months. The issue is important enough to get right, lest we continue to lose public support in Afghanistan, she said.
Abdul Waheed Wafa reported from Kabul, and John F. Burns from Cambridge, England. Mark McDonald and Graham Bowley contributed reporting from New York, and Eric Schmitt from Washington.
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