Time For Pakistan To Exit War On Terror

[Jigs]

SilentNinja;1012558]yes yes yes, we should continue to fight while on the other side the Americans and NATO continue to payoff the Taliban!

Sure you can stop. Don't cry foul when they won't.

and Pakistan is exercising that right!

Ok.

 

[Reaper What You Sow]

I've read reports of the Pakistani government eliminating their Turkic freelance commanders before and after the Siege of Kabul when the Taliban were officially placed in power of Afghanistan. These were compiled initially by Turkish intelligence and the CIA. The Pakistanis did this to pave the way for unopposed Taliban rule. Damn right your soldiers should still be out there fighting.

 

[Desert Fox]

Osama has been a wanted terrorist dead or alive long before 9/11 happened. If the CIA found out where he lived i don't think he would see any trial. (Yeah i know everyone gets a trial and that is true) But we obvious can agree the guy is guilty of mass murder and terrorism on a huge scale.

The Taliban made the choice to protect Bin Laden and Omar ordered his men to prepare for war against the invading forces. Omar relationship with Bin Laden had always been good even though they didn't agree on certain issues.

you don't get the point, had the Americans accepted the Taliban's deal of handing Osama over to a third party for a trial they still would have had a good chance of bringing him to justice don't you think? instead of having to search for him for more than 9 years and not achieving any of their goals!

today they wouldn't be bogged down in two wars with a sinking economy don't you think?

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

lol, do you think America and NATO are serious about fighting the Taliban? Americans pay Taliban millions of dollars to let their convoys get through safely in Taliban territory, Taliban have infiltrated the Afghan National Army, they have infiltrated the Afghan government!

When Pakistan launched operation into South Waziristan Americans and NATO withdrew their troops from their side of the border and gave TTP terrorists a chance to escape the Pakistan army! And now they want us to launch a operation against Afghan Taliban in North Waziristan? But our Army and ISI are smart enough and we won't make that mistake of attacking the Afghan Taliban because after all when America and NATO leave we will be stuck here and the more enemies we make in this region the more allies india will have against us!

BTW, more American soldiers die by committing suicide in Afghanistan than get killed by Taliban!

I thought I would do a little checking to see if you knew what you were talking about,,, evidently not.

The Army's current suicide rate is about 22 deaths per 100,000, which is above a civilian rate that has been adjusted to match the demographics of the Army. That rate is 18-per-100,000. Only the Marine Corps has a higher suicide rate, at 24-per-100,000. Although Marine Corps suicides had been tracking similarly to last year's record pace, the service reported only one suicide in June.

The normal rate of suicides in america is 19.3 among 100,000 males. 18 among the age group in the military.

Russian Federation is 72.9 2nd highest in the world.
They must be really miserable over their now days.

Suicide rates in countries throughout the world

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

you don't get the point, had the Americans accepted the Taliban's deal of handing Osama over to a third party for a trial they still would have had a good chance of bringing him to justice don't you think? instead of having to search for him for more than 9 years and not achieving any of their goals!

today they wouldn't be bogged down in two wars with a sinking economy don't you think?

I dont think Afghanstan ever had any intention of turning Osama or Al Quada over to any one.

 

[Desert Fox]

I thought I would do a little checking to see if you knew what you were talking about,,, evidently not.

Either way the marine corps is still a part of the American Armed Forces, your post is just full of rants and has nothing to do with this thread, i don't see how the branches of American armed forces has anything to do with this thread and neither have you refuted my posts with logical explination or proof to back them up!

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Either way the marine corps is still a part of the American Armed Forces, your post is just full of rants and has nothing to do with this thread, i don't see how the branches of American armed forces has anything to do with this thread and neither have you refuted my posts with logical explination or proof to back them up!

You said more american troops are committing suicide then are being killed by the taliban. I said you are lieing and them gave you proof. What part of that dont you understand.

 

[Jigs]

you don't get the point, had the Americans accepted the Taliban's deal of handing Osama over to a third party for a trial they still would have had a good chance of bringing him to justice don't you think? instead of having to search for him for more than 9 years and not achieving any of their goals!

today they wouldn't be bogged down in two wars with a sinking economy don't you think?

I don't think you understand that Osama isn't the be all end all of this.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

I don't think you understand that Osama isn't the be all end all of this.

I totally agree with you, I dont even thing the basis for this conflict is religon, its one about a large group of people wanting to live in what the perceive as a better time and better world coming into conflict with the modren world.

What we are seeing is Despair at the prospective dissolution of Muslim society is the mother of radical Islamism, and its path of least resistance goes toward violence

I expect this conflict will last for generations.


Asia Times Online :: Asian News, Business and Economy.
CRISIS OF FAITH IN THE MUSLIM WORLD
PART 2: The Islamist response


Most of the world's cultures will go into oblivion without a fight, either because they cannot or do not wish to fight for survival. Of the world's endangered cultures, some can and will fight to perpetuate itself, and that is Islam but in the end it will change or it will go. Time waits for no man or no culture.

 

[Desert Fox]

I don't think you understand that Osama isn't the be all end all of this.

but didn't you say that the Taliban didn't offer up Osama who was responsible for killing 3,000 innocent people? And that this was the reason why they invaded Afghanistan, to capture Osama?

 

[Desert Fox]

You said more american troops are committing suicide then are being killed by the taliban. I said you are lieing and them gave you proof. What part of that dont you understand.

More U.S. soldiers killed themselves last month than in recent Army history, according to Army statistics released Thursday, confounding officials trying to reverse the grim trend.

The statistics show that 32 soldiers killed themselves in June, the highest number in a single month since the Vietnam era. Twenty-one of them were on active duty, while 11 were in the National Guard or Army Reserve in an inactive status.

June was worst month for Army suicides, statistics show - CNN.com

 

[Jigs]

but didn't you say that the Taliban didn't offer up Osama who was responsible for killing 3,000 innocent people? And that this was the reason why they invaded Afghanistan, to capture Osama?

So they want evidence first and then they want to hand him over to another country. Taliban knew it was him who did it. That to me looks like the run around. Plus Osama being caught doesn't solve the Al-Qaeda or Taliban Problem.

Returning to the White House after a weekend at Camp David, the president said the bombing would not stop, unless the ruling Taliban "turn [bin Laden] over, turn his cohorts over, turn any hostages they hold over." He added, "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty". In Jalalabad, deputy prime minister Haji Abdul Kabir - the third most powerful figure in the ruling Taliban regime - told reporters that the Taliban would require evidence that Bin Laden was behind the September 11 terrorist attacks in the US, but added: "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country".

Also read this.

"If the Taliban is given evidence that Osama bin Laden is involved" and the bombing campaign stopped, "we would be ready to hand him over to a third country", Mr Kabir added.

But it would have to be a state that would never "come under pressure from the United States", he said.

And this

The War in Afghanistan began on October 7, 2001, as the US military's Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) that was launched, along with the British military, in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks on the US. The UK has, since 2002, led its own military operation, Operation Herrick, as part of the same war in Afghanistan. The character of the war evolved from a violent struggle against Al-Qaeda and its Taliban supporters to a complex counterinsurgency effort.

My initial point though is that Pakistan can't just pack up and leave when terrorists are now in their country and some are homegrown there or have easy access to camps in neighboring Afghanistan. Do you think Pakistan can just say "Look we are done with fighting terrorism ?"

 

[Desert Fox]

I dont think Afghanstan ever had any intention of turning Osama or Al Quada over to any one.

One may point here that the alleged mastermind of 9/11 Osama bin Laden was hiding in Afghanistan and it provided the rational for the US attack. However, the argument loses much of it force when one considers that the Taliban government twice, in 1998 and 2001, offered to hand over Osama Bin Laden to an independent tribunal instead of the United States. It was a reasonable offer, given the fact that the US did not recognize the Taliban government, and there was no extradition treaty existed.

When Osama was accused of involved in the 1998 embassy attack in Tanzania and Kenya , German and British media reported that Taliban offered to deport him.

Had the U.S. accepted Afghanistan's offer in 1998 to extradite Osama, not only the death and misery that the war brought to Afghanistan could have been averted but the tragic incident of 9/11 itself may have not happened - presuming that Osama and his men were indeed the culprits behind that attack.

Afghanistan War ‘A Waste of Blood and Treasure’ « RAWA News

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Afghanistan War ‘A Waste of Blood and Treasure’ « RAWA News

Thats true,, missed opportuntity,,,,but if they had turned him over after 911 the taliban would likely to still be in power in afghanstan.

 

[Desert Fox]

So they want evidence first and then they want to hand him over to another country. Taliban knew it was him who did it. That to me looks like the run around. Plus Osama being caught doesn't solve the Al-Qaeda or Taliban Problem.

You need solid evidence to prove that someone committed a crime, otherwise you can't bring anyone to justice! This is how democracy and its foundation work, innocent until proven guilty!

You can't just accuse someone of being guilty because you feel they are, court systems don't work on emotions or feelings!

The Americans had a better chance of bringing Osama to justice had they accepted the Taliban's deal to hand over Osama to a third country where he could have been given a fair trial because the American didn't trust the Taliban's religious court systems!

My initial point though is that Pakistan can't just pack up and leave when terrorists are now in their country and some are homegrown there or have easy access to camps in neighboring Afghanistan. Do you think Pakistan can just say "Look we are done with fighting terrorism ?"

the TTP came into existence after Pakistan army began to launch operations in the Waziristan on the behest of the Americans who kept pressuring Pakistan's gov of that time, Americans were threatening to launch their own spec ops operations into Pakistani territory if our army didn't do it first therefore we were forced to kill our own people, that operation was a complete failure on our part as we failed to achieve any of our objectives, lost a lot of our soldiers and Taliban gained more strength!

BTW, TTP's founder Abdullah Mehsud was a Taliban fighter captured by the American during the first days of the invasion of Afghanistan, he was sent to Guantanamo bay and stayed there for 25 months until he was released for an unknown reason and sent back to Pakistan's tribal region with a large amount of money and weapons where he began to launch series of deadly attacks against the Pakistani government and armed forces.