Time for Pakistan & Russia to mend fences: Russian Media

[unicorn]

The most sincere effort by Russians towards Pakistan is on its way.But this effort will not be directly related or linked to Pakistan.So I am not taking it into account.Other than that there will be none.

 

[foxbat]

Wah wah! I recently posted an article on this forum which was authored by an Indian citizen but appeared in Pakistan's DAWN newspaper. It took me several pages of back and forth to even get my Indian friends to *acknowledge* forthrightly that the article was written by an Indian! The argument I had been getting from my friends across the border was that publication in a Pakistani newspaper reflected the newspaper's opinion/wishes/posture etc. and the only reason the Indian author was published was because his views "pleased" Pakistanis.

Well, if one were to apply the same argument here, couldn't one say that since Pravda is *the* premier russian news source and has a long history of being a state mouthpiece, that an article appearing in its pages has a fairly strong connection with what is being contemplated in the echelons of power in Russia? That regardless of the piece being authored by a Pakistani pen, it "pleases" the Russians?

Either way, coming to the article itself, I think its rather balanced. It points to perfectly valid high level quid pro quo, cooperative diplomatic successes scored by Russia and Pakistan. With the recent news of unrestricted RD-93 supplies, it does appear that Russia is continuing to warm up to Pakistan. And why shouldn't it? India has certainly jumped the fence, why should Russia not pursue a balanced policy between Pakistan and India? After all, no one in Russia is blind to the fact that India is no longer as fast a "friend" as it once was.

[As a complete side note, I saw earlier today that Russia's population is now close to 20% muslim. I think good relations with muslim states will also add to domestic stability in Russia.]

Can you elaborate the bold part a bit more..??

 

[foxbat]

Wah wah! I recently posted an article on this forum which was authored by an Indian citizen but appeared in Pakistan's DAWN newspaper. It took me several pages of back and forth to even get my Indian friends to *acknowledge* forthrightly that the article was written by an Indian! The argument I had been getting from my friends across the border was that publication in a Pakistani newspaper reflected the newspaper's opinion/wishes/posture etc. and the only reason the Indian author was published was because his views "pleased" Pakistanis.

Well, if one were to apply the same argument here, couldn't one say that since Pravda is *the* premier russian news source and has a long history of being a state mouthpiece, that an article appearing in its pages has a fairly strong connection with what is being contemplated in the echelons of power in Russia? That regardless of the piece being authored by a Pakistani pen, it "pleases" the Russians?

But werent you arguing with Karan in that thread that irrespective of the paper, the views were that of an Indian and not of a Pakistani Paper. I dont think you agreed to Karan's view point there..

So by argueing that the text of this article has a fairly strong connection with what is being contemplated in the echelons of power in Russia, are you also then admitting that Javed Naquwi's piece had more to do with what Pakistani establishment wanted to be printed than what an Indian national wanted to say

 

[Surrender2me]

Once the article writers past is know u can know wat is his intentions
Shahid R. Siddiqi began his career in the Pakistan Air Force, and later joined the private sector where he was until recently in a senior management position. At the same time, he worked as a broadcaster with Radio Pakistan and was the Islamabad bureau chief of the English weekly magazine, “Pakistan & Gulf Economist“.
I'll show u a real media of Russia:--- Russia today..enjoy it

 

[Surrender2me]

And u should remember Russia!!!=USA,they won't betray it's oldest ally as USA betrayed...
And remember India will not trust USA fully,never,Even russians knows this
and the Any act between USA and INDIA will be Discussed with indian diplomats and Russian diplomats..
and russia know that's if any war happens,india has to fight two front war,so should by defense equipments as soon as possible..
So india only buys transporter air crafts like C-130,C-17 and P8i
and Fighters from Russia..
For example,for immediate,India will buy 10 C-17 from US and from Jan 2011 the project of MTA (a Indo-Russia Tactical transport ) aircraft will be officially on..
i think u understood..
And do u think India will trust a Country which helped our enemy in 1971..
Supplied supplies routed from jordan and USS Enterprise.,eventhough having the support of Super power(Not any more),they lost...
USA can never be trusted by anyone....

 

[unicorn]

I take your point, but to me, always one has to help themselves, only then can others offer to help - and relations with other states are usually based on mutual benefit, not one party behaving as if lame and demanding to see "generosity" from others.

respect begins with respecting ourselves, I'm sure you'll agree.

Yes I definitely agree.I would also like to see co-operation in Industrial sector.I also know there is lot of Potential.Recently Russian company have shown interest in investing in the Direct TV DTH in Pakistan.
But taking all these things into account I also want to see how Russians are doing in their surrounding circles.Like when I want a relation to develop between two countries I want to see what kind of relation will be develop.Recently they have cancelled to supply S300 to Iran.Now for most of the people in Pakistan say why we even bother.But for me it is their sole behaviour to study and to predict their future decisions in the region and in the specific fields.Most of the people never think about it.That is why when I take a look at the bigger picture I don't see any sincerity or thinking behind this sincerity relation.Yes the investment will be done in Pakistan in future
but for their own reasons not for the reasons of Pakistan.The news of DTH is just one example.

 

[SQ8]

After 71.. and bhutto's rise.. the Russians were the ones which helped set up our beleaguered steel mill...and our first proper high powered radar..the PS-05..
The Russians have every right to favor India..especially after we have snubbed them at every moment they tried mending fences.
Then.. for all the nay sayers.. had it not been for Pakistan's managing of the scattered afghan resistance...and making operational plans for them.. the Russians may not have left Afghanistan that soon...or at all.

there is a bloc in Russia that wishes for better ties with us..specifically to counter American influence in India..nothing irritates Dehli more to see those engines rolling off An-124's for our jets.
The world in no longer bi-polar.. or uni-polar..
alliances are made on a selfish basis.. (apart from Pakistan who do it out of sheer idiocy). The EU is the EU because of economic considerations more than anything...NATO existed because of Russia..
remember the freedom fries episode.. it shook NATO from head to toe...
And now.. for all the world.. the Russians are ordering equipment from france..
The Chinese are making radars with American processors.
Alliances are no longer based on "friendship".. they are based on economic support..

and in case anyone wants to remember..
The Soviet-Indian friendship isnt the only case of the USSR intervening..
the 71 war was also a proxy war between the US-China rope..and the USSR..
if one remembers..the sino-soviet split had occurred before this.. and the USSR needed someone to keep China at bay as well.
two years later.. another proxy equipment war occurred.. the 73 conflict..
in which both American and soviet personnel participated..
Had India even given a hint of joining the American bloc back in the 80's..
They would be flying F-22's today..
"love aaj kal" with India ..is no different ..
Russia makes billions for its economy by selling hardware to India....so much so..that the news of the Mig-35 being dropped prompted a sudden sweetener remark by the IAF that the jet may still be bought in smaller numbers..
Tomorrow.. you make an offer that matches India's cash ..dollar for dollar..see if putin himself doesn't do a khattak dance in Islamabad with Zardari..

All alliances..all friendships.. are based on needs..
not "brotherly ties" as foolishly perpetrated by our FO...
The Russians see the need to sell hardware here.. make a few bucks..they will do it as delicately as possible ..so India is not irked..and keeps buying.. but so do China and Pakistan..
its not personal..its business..

 

[Surrender2me]

After 71.. and bhutto's rise.. the Russians were the ones which helped set up our beleaguered steel mill...and our first proper high powered radar..the PS-05..
The Russians have every right to favor India..especially after we have snubbed them at every moment they tried mending fences.
Then.. for all the nay sayers.. had it not been for Pakistan's managing of the scattered afghan resistance...and making operational plans for them.. the Russians may not have left Afghanistan that soon...or at all.

there is a bloc in Russia that wishes for better ties with us..specifically to counter American influence in India..nothing irritates Dehli more to see those engines rolling off An-124's for our jets.
The world in no longer bi-polar.. or uni-polar..
alliances are made on a selfish basis.. (apart from Pakistan who do it out of sheer idiocy). The EU is the EU because of economic considerations more than anything...NATO existed because of Russia..
remember the freedom fries episode.. it shook NATO from head to toe...
And now.. for all the world.. the Russians are ordering equipment from france..
The Chinese are making radars with American processors.
Alliances are no longer based on "friendship".. they are based on economic support..

and in case anyone wants to remember..
The Soviet-Indian friendship isnt the only case of the USSR intervening..
the 71 war was also a proxy war between the US-China rope..and the USSR..
if one remembers..the sino-soviet split had occurred before this.. and the USSR needed someone to keep China at bay as well.
two years later.. another proxy equipment war occurred.. the 73 conflict..
in which both American and soviet personnel participated..
Had India even given a hint of joining the American bloc back in the 80's..
They would be flying F-22's today..
"love aaj kal" with India ..is no different ..
Russia makes billions for its economy by selling hardware to India....so much so..that the news of the Mig-35 being dropped prompted a sudden sweetener remark by the IAF that the jet may still be bought in smaller numbers..
Tomorrow.. you make an offer that matches India's cash ..dollar for dollar..see if putin himself doesn't do a khattak dance in Islamabad with Zardari..

All alliances..all friendships.. are based on needs..
not "brotherly ties" as foolishly perpetrated by our FO...
The Russians see the need to sell hardware here.. make a few bucks..they will do it as delicately as possible ..so India is not irked..and keeps buying.. but so do China and Pakistan..
its not personal..its business..

U r right ...
But i have one doubt...
why Russia has India as some much co-operation between each other..
for example:-
Brahmos-1
Brahmos-2
Pak fa
MTA
Glonass(Russia has given full military use and civillian use for only for India)
And recently has offered india to invest in Nuclear mines in russia????
Even china has money power,infact they have more than us..
why is it like this?????

http://geneva-globaldefence.blogspot.com/2010/10/russia-to-provide-india-with-military.html

 

[Vajra_Yuddh]

Realized by the end of first page the manipulation that is done to make India look as if it is going to jump into NATO . How typical!

Russia is free to have any relationship it feels right and we as its oldest friends of modern times, welcome this wholeheartedly. BTW, let Vladimir Radyukhin or any other well known Russian journalist mention such a similar article.

Mr. Siddiqui's efforts to woo Russia by keeping us in the lower pedestal simply ruins the whole "independent view" of the article.

 

[Vajra_Yuddh]

@Sri Lankan

Why do you twist real articles and modify them to make India look low or at a disadvantage always? Are you so insecure?

 

[Surrender2me]

@Sri Lankan

Why do you twist real articles and modify them to make India look low or at a disadvantage always? Are you so insecure?

He also twisted and modified a article to look like as if sri lanka is buying battle tanks from pakistan...

 

[TechLahore]

But werent you arguing with Karan in that thread that irrespective of the paper, the views were that of an Indian and not of a Pakistani Paper. I dont think you agreed to Karan's view point there..

So by argueing that the text of this article has a fairly strong connection with what is being contemplated in the echelons of power in Russia, are you also then admitting that Javed Naquwi's piece had more to do with what Pakistani establishment wanted to be printed than what an Indian national wanted to say

I can ask you the same question. If, in this instance, Pravda has done nothing more than print a Pakistani's opinion, do you then admit that Javed Naqvi's article reflects the contempt that Indian citizens hold their Army in as opposed to what DAWN or the "Pakistani Establishment" think

As for Pravda, if you know a little about the history of that newspaper you will hopefully acknowledge that it is nothing if not a mouthpiece for the Russian establishment. In recent times it has taken on the reputation of being an ultra-nationalist platform, putting out content that is consistent with that kind of thinking.

 

[unicorn]

After 71.. and bhutto's rise.. the Russians were the ones which helped set up our beleaguered steel mill...and our first proper high powered radar..the PS-05..
The Russians have every right to favor India..especially after we have snubbed them at every moment they tried mending fences.
Then.. for all the nay sayers.. had it not been for Pakistan's managing of the scattered afghan resistance...and making operational plans for them.. the Russians may not have left Afghanistan that soon...or at all.

there is a bloc in Russia that wishes for better ties with us..specifically to counter American influence in India..nothing irritates Dehli more to see those engines rolling off An-124's for our jets.
The world in no longer bi-polar.. or uni-polar..
alliances are made on a selfish basis.. (apart from Pakistan who do it out of sheer idiocy). The EU is the EU because of economic considerations more than anything...NATO existed because of Russia..
remember the freedom fries episode.. it shook NATO from head to toe...
And now.. for all the world.. the Russians are ordering equipment from france..
The Chinese are making radars with American processors.
Alliances are no longer based on "friendship".. they are based on economic support..

and in case anyone wants to remember..
The Soviet-Indian friendship isnt the only case of the USSR intervening..
the 71 war was also a proxy war between the US-China rope..and the USSR..
if one remembers..the sino-soviet split had occurred before this.. and the USSR needed someone to keep China at bay as well.
two years later.. another proxy equipment war occurred.. the 73 conflict..
in which both American and soviet personnel participated..
Had India even given a hint of joining the American bloc back in the 80's..
They would be flying F-22's today..
"love aaj kal" with India ..is no different ..
Russia makes billions for its economy by selling hardware to India....so much so..that the news of the Mig-35 being dropped prompted a sudden sweetener remark by the IAF that the jet may still be bought in smaller numbers..
Tomorrow.. you make an offer that matches India's cash ..dollar for dollar..see if putin himself doesn't do a khattak dance in Islamabad with Zardari..

All alliances..all friendships.. are based on needs..
not "brotherly ties" as foolishly perpetrated by our FO...
The Russians see the need to sell hardware here.. make a few bucks..they will do it as delicately as possible ..so India is not irked..and keeps buying.. but so do China and Pakistan..
its not personal..its business..

All the sweet sweet things you mentioned which I agree.But after doing all those sweet things they entered Afghanistan.
After entering Afghanistan can you tell me how many times did they try to enter Pakistan airspace with full loaded aircrafts for no reasons.
The things in this world are never one sided, they are actually diversified over a very large domain.Try looking those as well.

 

[SQ8]

All the sweet sweet things you mentioned which I agree.But after doing all those sweet things they entered Afghanistan.
After entering Afghanistan can you tell me how many times did they try to enter Pakistan airspace with full loaded aircrafts for no reasons.
The things in this world are never one sided, they are actually diversified over a very large domain.Try looking those as well.

Do natural resources mean anything to you?? Gas..oil.. minerals.. etc etc
No reasons???
You were harboring the Mujahideen.. sworn enemies of the Soviets..I think that is a BIG reason..
Yet.. until Reagan came into power...the reds still sent the final parts for the mill..even though we had started our support for the Mujaheddin...out of fear that the Indians will be allowed into Afghanistan and establish a secondary strike force there....the domain is large.

Now..surrender2 me..
have you taken into account the fact that after the sino-soviet split there was a point where the Chinese were ready for war with the russians.. infact.. most of the early chinese nukes were aimed at Russia.. A mistrust exists still.. and the Chinese are wary of Russians at their border..
This isnt the Canadians and the Americans..
Moreover.. China sought for more independence from Russia(or anybody for that matter)...
After 91.. the relations improved a lot..
which is why.. in case co-development is what you stress.. russian engines power Chinese frontline jets..also from Russia..
China avoids partnership with Russia on strategic weapons simply because it fears the GRU might sell out those secrets to the US.. for a favor on part of Georgian capabilities.

It is a dirty world..
"iss haat le.. uss haat de".. is the norm.

 

[Surrender2me]

Do natural resources mean anything to you?? Gas..oil.. minerals.. etc etc
No reasons???
You were harboring the Mujahideen.. sworn enemies of the Soviets..I think that is a BIG reason..
Yet.. until Reagan came into power...the reds still sent the final parts for the mill..even though we had started our support for the Mujaheddin...out of fear that the Indians will be allowed into Afghanistan and establish a secondary strike force there....the domain is large.

Now..surrender2 me..
have you taken into account the fact that after the sino-soviet split there was a point where the Chinese were ready for war with the russians.. infact.. most of the early chinese nukes were aimed at Russia.. A mistrust exists still.. and the Chinese are wary of Russians at their border..
This isnt the Canadians and the Americans..
Moreover.. China sought for more independence from Russia(or anybody for that matter)...
After 91.. the relations improved a lot..
which is why.. in case co-development is what you stress.. russian engines power Chinese frontline jets..also from Russia..
China avoids partnership with Russia on strategic weapons simply because it fears the GRU might sell out those secrets to the US.. for a favor on part of Georgian capabilities.

It is a dirty world..
"iss haat le.. uss haat de".. is the norm.

Are u saying that Russia will sell out secrets to US..
And u r saying china is more technologically forward than Russia???
If russia will sell chineese HIGH- technology to US??
are u kidding me..?
Come on man be realistic..