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Time for German military to take more active role?

Aepsilons

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Remembrance of the fallen, and the fall of a wall. How we remember the past defines the future.

Look at London, then at Berlin last weekend, and you will understand the intense debate in Europe's richest country - does it dare to lead again?

A wave of red flowers laps against the walls of an ancient fortress, a brass band echoes the demolition work of the trumpets of Jericho with the addition of unbiblical balloons.

The toll of bells and then a silence broken only by the cry of gulls to honour those who died.

In Germany there are not many memorials to the fallen, but I found one at the Brandenburg HQ of the modern German army.

It was rescued from a demolished East German barracks; no-one was sure of its exact dates. Maybe post-WW1, maybe earlier.

An ornate Pikelhaube, the distinctive Prussian helmet, lies between a wreath of oak leaves and an unsheathed dagger.

Over these emblems a giant German eagle crouches, fierce and protective, wings outstretched.

I ask Cpl Stephen Giese, 21, who has been in the German Army a year and a month, what he thinks of those Germans who died in the two world wars.

"I'm very proud of how they served the army considering the circumstances and knowing that the war was probably lost anyway.

"I think today you can't approve of it, but their courage and steadfast duty is impressive," he said.

It is a welcome relief from the two-dimensional world of the tabloids where heroes are always on the right side and their opponents are bad, or mad, and always cowardly. His reflective, thoughtful approach to war is very German.

Looking forward
But the young soldier is also determined that his country's past should not hamstring its future.

"It is part of the education [of a potential officer] to be sent overseas. I think it is our job and our duty to protect the liberty and democracy of our own country and I'm ready to do so.

"I think there are regions in this world where it is necessary to fight, because talking isn't enough or people wouldn't agree on talking.

"But the first step should always be a verbal exchange and no fighting."

In Berlin, history is never far away.

A short walk from the celebrations at the Brandenburg Gate is the Holocaust Memorial, itself not far from the unmarked spot where Hitler's bunker once was.

The memorial to the murdered Jews of Europe is overwhelming and unsettling, as it is meant to be.

You walk down an uneven surface, deeper and deeper into rows of looming stone blocks. They mark the pitiless murder of millions from many countries by the leaders of one country.

If nations define themselves, and their sense of history, by what they choose to remember, and what they choose to forget, then Germany is unique.

It chooses to remember with dogged determination its darkest sins, rubbing its own face in the mess of its past, to teach itself a lesson.

But history does not stand still.

Ever since the fall of the wall there has been a debate about when Germany can become a "normal" country.

It is sometimes rather more philosophical than political.

But now the debate has reached a tipping point - what more can the richest and most powerful country in Europe do in a very uncertain world?

Time to move on
Earlier this year German President Joachim Gauck made a rare political intervention.

He said the country could not continue to hide behind its past.

He warned that there were "people who use Germany's guilt for its past as a shield for laziness or a desire to disengage from the world".

Forcefully, he added: "At this very moment, the world's only superpower is reconsidering the scale and form of its global engagement.

"Europe, its partner, is busy navel-gazing. I don't believe that Germany can simply carry on as before in the face of these developments."

The foreign minister and the defence minister have followed suit, arguing that Germany should do more.

The times, some say, demand it.


BBC News - Time for German military to take more active role?
 
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Earlier this year German President Joachim Gauck made a rare political intervention.

He said the country could not continue to hide behind its past.

He warned that there were "people who use Germany's guilt for its past as a shield for laziness or a desire to disengage from the world".


POIGNANT.
 
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Germany going to need a bigger reform then what the Japanese need.

The Germans need to reform their constitution as well. I don't see why our German Brothers should remain benign.

They have always been a proud, and powerful military nation. Long have the Prussian Army been an idol of foreign armies.

Germania needs to awaken again.
 
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The Germans need to reform their constitution as well. I don't see why our German Brothers should remain benign.

They have always been a proud, and powerful military nation. Long have the Prussian Army been an idol of foreign armies.

Germania needs to awaken again.

Well Prussia is no more , with the invent of east germany and now german reunification Prussia belongs to the history books
 
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Well Prussia is no more , with the invent of east germany and now german reunification Prussia belongs to the history books

The Prussian Empire eventually became the German Empire; it was the Prussian King who eventually became the Kaizer of the German Empire.

So for many, Prussia is synonymous with Germany.
 
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The Prussian Empire eventually became the German Empire; it was the Prussian King who eventually became the Kaizer of the German Empire.

So for many, Prussia is synonymous with Germany.
Today Bavaria is synonymous with germany , believe it or not
 
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Believe it or not, most of the military traditions of the present day Bundeswehr is Prussian military tradition.


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Bundeswehr_1768487i[1].jpg



GERMANY_photo_02[1].jpg

Note the Prussian Eagle


bundeswehr_04[1].jpg
 
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@Nihonjin1051 , I 've heard about Prussia and her military tradition I'm no history expert bro , but with 70 years of communism , today there 's only eastern Europe and NATO , there were also the infamous polish cavalry who served the pope probably more famous than the Prussians but still today americans only know Germany with Bavaria , so east germans are irrelevant
 
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@Nihonjin1051 , I 've heard about Prussia and her military tradition I'm no history expert bro , but with 70 years of communism , today there 's only eastern Europe and NATO , there were also the infamous polish cavalry who served the pope probably more famous than the Prussians but still today americans only know Germany with Bavaria , so east germans are irrelevant

It was the Prussian Army, under the command of Fieldmarshall Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher that routed Napoleon in Waterloo, crushing the French Empire. It was yet again the Prussian Army under the command of King Wilhelm I that defeated the Austrian Army under the command of Emperor Franz Joseph during the Austrian-Prussian War. It was yet again the same Prussian Army under the command of King Wilhelm I of Prussia that defeated the French Army under the command of Emperor Napoleon III during the Franco-Prussian War. The Battle of Sedan was such a blow that the French Army was forced to surrender or else face extermination, thus Napoleon III surrendered. The French Empire collapsed as a result.

No doubt the Bavarians have economic importance, but in regards to military preeminence relating to Germany, the Prussian Eagle always comes to mind.
 
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It was the Prussian Army, under the command of Fieldmarshall Gebhard Leberecht von Blücher that routed Napoleon in Waterloo, crushing the French Empire. It was yet again the Prussian Army under the command of King Wilhelm I that defeated the Austrian Army under the command of Emperor Franz Joseph during the Austrian-Prussian War. It was yet again the same Prussian Army under the command of King Wilhelm I of Prussia that defeated the French Army under the command of Emperor Napoleon III during the Franco-Prussian War.

No doubt the Bavarians have economic importance, but in regards to military preeminence relating to Germany, the Prussian Eagle always comes to mind.

Well you are a history expert no doubt , but the Wikipedia and BBC would disagree with you , according to them it was the british grenadiers who stopped napoleon at waterloo
 
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Well you are a history expert no doubt , but the Wikipedia and BBC would disagree with you , according to them it was the british grenadiers who stopped napoleon at waterloo

The result of the Battle changed in favor for the Prussian-British Alliance when the Prussian IV Corp arrived.

@AUSTERLITZ , perhaps you can enlighten us on the role of the Prussian Army during this battle ?
 
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Not gonna happen.Not in current political climate.Should read what Minister Of Defense has said about readiness of German Army.Of course most probably situation is not so bad.It was just a polite NO for calls from NATO for more active participation of German Army.Basically in normal language was a simple FU NATO - wanna engage in silly games.Sure be my guest but Germany not gonna participate in.Also Merkel is getting under increased attack at home-from both politicians and business groups.Pushing for bigger activity in NATO to put it mildly very questionable activities under her watch when there is no sign of end for West sanction games against Russia(and inflicting more damage to German economy) is last thing she needs.So despite desire of USA(NATO=USA for those who cant get such simple reality) and their media arm( " truth " loving MSM) Germany will stay at current course.
 
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Not gonna happen.Not in current political climate.Should read what Minister Of Defense has said about readiness of German Army.Of course most probably situation is not so bad.It was just a polite NO for calls from NATO for more active participation of German Army.Basically in normal language was a simple FU NATO - wanna engage in silly games.Sure be my guest but Germany not gonna participate in.Also Merkel is getting under increased attack at home-from both politicians and business groups.Pushing for bigger activity in NATO to put it mildly very questionable activities under her watch when there is no sign of end for West sanction games against Russia(and inflicting more damage to German economy) is last thing she needs.So despite desire of USA(NATO=USA for those who cant get such simple reality) and their media arm( " truth " loving MSM) Germany will stay at current course.

Die Bundeswehr soll vorübergehend eine Schlüsselrolle übernehmen bei dem Schutz ost- und mitteleuropäischer Nato-Mitgliedsstaaten, die sich von Russland bedroht fühlen. Wie die Zeitung Die Welt berichtet, plant die Nato, das deutsch-niederländische Korps in Münster als Hauptteil einer vorübergehenden sogenannten Speerspitze einzusetzen. Diese soll verantwortlich sein, bis die beim Nato-Gipfel beschlossene neue Krisentruppe einsatzbereit ist.


Das Konzept der schnellen Eingreiftruppe werde derzeit von der Nato entwickelt, sagte ein Sprecher des Verteidigungsministeriums. Deutschland messe dem Projekt einen hohen Stellenwert bei. "Im Rahmen dieser Entwicklung und als klares politisches Signal unterstützen wir deshalb auch erste Erprobungen Anfang 2015, an denen wir uns beteiligen."


Nato : Bundeswehr soll führende Rolle in Osteuropa übernehmen | ZEIT ONLINE
 
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