Thousands of dalits to embrace Buddhism in Junagadh

[[Bregs]]

Wonder why Pakistanis are celebrating Dalits converting to Budhism. It is not like they defected to another country. They will remain Indians. Moreover Budhism is closely related to Hinduism

It also shows how deep the enmity between these two countries has entered into the mind of common citizens and youths too

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Check out the Chakra in the Indian flag? Or the emblem of the Government of India(The Lions)?
Chakra - Wheel of Dharma
Ashok Stambh - Stambh of Ashoka

Both are Buddhist in origin. Got some perspective?

 

[Sriram]

I don't even know how these "castes" became defined as certain social groups. I thought anyone who was righteous could called Brahmin? Or so that's what I understood from my limited study.

Can anyone else explain how these castes came into being?

consider each caste like a rigid tribe, that is how it behaves... Hindu scriptures talks about 4 varnas based on occupation adn its supposed to be flexible... i.e based on what u do you can go up and down the ladder, caste might have come from those varnas ... but the problem is there are 4 varnas but 100s of castes,people identify caste to one of the 4 varnas but u cant change your caste... funny thing is people still identify by caste even after they switch religion... if you see the matrimonial ads you'll observe that... Now I am not sure if anyone know when this rigid caste system started...

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

I don't even know how these "castes" became defined as certain social groups. I thought anyone who was righteous could called Brahmin? Or so that's what I understood from my limited study.

Can anyone else explain how these castes came into being?

It come in to being when Vedic Aryans created caste system and enslaved dark Indians. You may think but but aryan invasion is myth, even if its myth that doesn't change the fact that they existed and moved from north punjab to all over India and enslaved them.

So dalits can change to any religion they like but cant escape discrimination from upper caste hindus.

consider each caste like a rigid tribe, that is how it behaves... Hindu scriptures talks about 4 varnas based on occupation adn its supposed to be flexible... i.e based on what u do you can go up and down the ladder, caste might have come from those varnas ... but the problem is there are 4 varnas but 100s of castes,people identify caste to one of the 4 varnas but u cant change your caste... funny thing is people still identify by caste even after they switch religion... if you see the matrimonial ads you'll observe that... Now I am not sure if anyone know when this rigid caste system started...

Caste system based on profession was only practised in Punjab in ancient times. In other regions one had to born in to Brahmin family to become brahmin.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It come in to being when Vedic Aryans created caste system and enslaved dark Indians. You may think but but aryan invasion is myth, even if its myth that doesn't change the fact that they existed and moved from north punjab to all over India and enslaved them.

So dalits can change to any religion they like but cant escape discrimination from upper caste hindus.



Caste system based on profession was only practised in Punjab in ancient times. In other regions one had to born in to Brahmin family to become brahmin.

'only practised in Punjab in ancient times' - Provide source. Now.

 

[faithfulguy]

If they find peace, more power for them. As Buddhists will they still be treated like dirt by other hindus for once being dalits though?

No doubt about it. In reality, all none Hindus are regarded as Dalits. I would be regarded as a Dalit in Indian religion.So will they be regarded ad Dalit.

 

[Pakistani E]

consider each caste like a rigid tribe, that is how it behaves... Hindu scriptures talks about 4 varnas based on occupation adn its supposed to be flexible... i.e based on what u do you can go up and down the ladder, caste might have come from those varnas ... but the problem is there are 4 varnas but 100s of castes,people identify caste to one of the 4 varnas but u cant change your caste... funny thing is people still identify by caste even after they switch religion... if you see the matrimonial ads you'll observe that... Now I am not sure if anyone know when this rigid caste system started...

Yes that's precisely what I thought, as far as its flexibility, I was just curious as how it became so rigid. I guess the ruling class may have started using it to justify their rule.

 

[faithfulguy]

No. Such people are called neo-Buddhists in India and will help to increase the percentage of Buddhists in India since India is the birthplace of Buddhism and will keep alive the Buddhism in India. Hindus converting to any of the 4 dharmic religions is not a issue for anyone here. In the past, Hindus send their kid to become Sikh.

How about Hindus converted to Christianity or Judaism? I know its problematic for Hindus to convert to Muslims in India. The whole family, clan and caste would disown the Hindu that convert to Islam. As Muslims were the rulers of India for 800 years prior to British conquest.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

'only practised in Punjab in ancient times' - Provide source. Now.

Aryan caste system and socially mobile Punjabis

Aryan social structure was strictly caste-based. The caste system, first mentioned in the ‘Rigveda’ which was composed in Punjab, was never strictly followed by the Punjabi people as was the case in latter days in the Gangetic plains. The Prusha Sukta (Hymn of Man) in Rigveda says: “The Brahmana was his (Purusha’s) mouth; the Rajanya was made out of both his arms. His thighs turned into the Vaishya; from his feet was produced the Shudra”.
While one cannot claim that the ancient Punjab had no caste system, but it can be said with certainty that social and occupational mobility was not a taboo.

Prof Malti G Shengde in her book “The Civilized Demons” quotes the impression of a Brahmin who visited the land of five rivers “having become Brahmins ones, a Balhika becomes Ksatriya, then (he became) Vaisya, Sudra and even a barber.

Having become barber, he again became Brahmin and having become a twice-born, he became a Dasa. In the same family one became Brahmin and the rest followed other professions”, and he concluded that ‘Gandh-aras, Madrakas and Balhika are utterly thoughtless’.

It simply demonstrates that in the ancient Punjab man was free to choose his profession other than that of his family, while it was obligatory to follow the profession of the family in the so-called Aryan society that was used to the strict observance of caste rules. For practices such as free occupational choice and social intermingling, the people of Punjab were denigrated and called Mleecha (aliens, people of border land) by those who believed that status and professions of a person were decided by the caste in which he was born.

That is why the religion of the ancient Punjabi was declared Nastadharama (destroyed religion). It had certain egalitarian aspects to the dismay of Arya divines.

Aryan caste system and socially mobile Punjabis | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

Thats the reason they called people living in country of 5 rivers Mlecchas.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Yes that's precisely what I thought, as far as its flexibility, I was just curious as how it became so rigid. I guess the ruling class may have started using it to justify their rule.

It is simple. The idea was flawed. Society can't survive in such ideal settings. As long as there was Central Authority to impose a just social structure it was ok. But picture this -
A Kshatriya is a great warrior. He sees his son is practically good for nothing other than hard labor. By the society norms he would be a laborer(factory/agriculture etc). But his dad would want him to be a warrior as well(even if only in name) to maintain the dignity of the family name if not out of love for his child.

 

[Pakistani E]

It come in to being when Vedic Aryans created caste system and enslaved dark Indians. You may think but but aryan invasion is myth, even if its myth that doesn't change the fact that they existed and moved from north punjab to all over India and enslaved them.

So dalits can change to any religion they like but cant escape discrimination from upper caste hindus.



Caste system based on profession was only practised in Punjab in ancient times. In other regions one had to born in to Brahmin family to become brahmin.

my family through the maternal line has been in the Indian sub continent for thousands of years, I just don't see any evidence of any large scale invasion of this sorts.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Aryan caste system and socially mobile Punjabis

Aryan social structure was strictly caste-based. The caste system, first mentioned in the ‘Rigveda’ which was composed in Punjab, was never strictly followed by the Punjabi people as was the case in latter days in the Gangetic plains. The Prusha Sukta (Hymn of Man) in Rigveda says: “The Brahmana was his (Purusha’s) mouth; the Rajanya was made out of both his arms. His thighs turned into the Vaishya; from his feet was produced the Shudra”.
While one cannot claim that the ancient Punjab had no caste system, but it can be said with certainty that social and occupational mobility was not a taboo.

Prof Malti G Shengde in her book “The Civilized Demons” quotes the impression of a Brahmin who visited the land of five rivers “having become Brahmins ones, a Balhika becomes Ksatriya, then (he became) Vaisya, Sudra and even a barber.

Having become barber, he again became Brahmin and having become a twice-born, he became a Dasa. In the same family one became Brahmin and the rest followed other professions”, and he concluded that ‘Gandh-aras, Madrakas and Balhika are utterly thoughtless’.

It simply demonstrates that in the ancient Punjab man was free to choose his profession other than that of his family, while it was obligatory to follow the profession of the family in the so-called Aryan society that was used to the strict observance of caste rules. For practices such as free occupational choice and social intermingling, the people of Punjab were denigrated and called Mleecha (aliens, people of border land) by those who believed that status and professions of a person were decided by the caste in which he was born.

That is why the religion of the ancient Punjabi was declared Nastadharama (destroyed religion). It had certain egalitarian aspects to the dismay of Arya divines.

Aryan caste system and socially mobile Punjabis | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

Thats the reason they called people living in country of 5 rivers Mlecchas.

A negative source does not prove you right. I hope you know the difference. In simple terms I will (for the sake of args) accept that in Punjab it was not rigid. But quote me that while Punjab was flexible, rest of Bharatvarsha was not.

There are many falsehoods in your post. I would be tired to prove you wrong. But a couple of glaring ones -
1. Rig Veda composed in Punjab only - You may be close to a great discovery. You are wasting your talent. If you know that it was done only in 'Punjab', you should submit a few journals.

2. 'The Prusha Sukta (Hymn of Man) in Rigveda says: “The Brahmana was his (Purusha’s) mouth; the Rajanya was made out of both his arms. His thighs turned into the Vaishya; from his feet was produced the Shudra”.' - This does not prove anything. To make a point - try living without any of the above and you will know how important each of them are. Besides this has no relation to the context.

3. ' religion of the ancient Punjabi was declared Nastadharama (destroyed religion)' - No source.

4. A newspaper article is not countersigned by historians around the world. It is news. It is written by Mustaq Soofi - and NOT accepted by the world community. His views are as invaluable as yours or mine.

my family through the maternal line has been in the Indian sub continent for thousands of years, I just don't see any evidence of any large scale invasion of this sorts.

Sir - You are just wasting your time by making him look like an ....(whatever).
He does that best all by hmself. Oh sorry - it should be Himself.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

These poor people will still remain dalits no matter which religion they chose, the problem is racial and not religious. Tell me what will change for them? Is Caste system allowed in India? Last time i checked in India everyone is free to do what ever he wants. So this wont stop hindus who discriminate dalits to suddenly stop doing that.

Infact i expect even more discrimination because no matter how many times hindu banyas on PDF say Bhudism & Sikhism, Hindusim etc is one and same the reality never changes.

Your wink at the end clearly shows your intent of making this post . If they become Buddhists then there is at least a better chance for them to move upward socially. They can change their surnames as well. So many Dalits are converting to Buddhism, I am sure they see some benefit in it.

And yes, caste based discrimination is illegal in India.

 

[INDIC]

A negative source does not prove you right. I hope you know the difference. In simple terms I will (for the sake of args) accept that in Punjab it was not rigid. But quote me that while Punjab was flexible, rest of Bharatvarsha was not.

There are many falsehoods in your post. I would be tired to prove you wrong. But a couple of glaring ones -
1. Rig Veda composed in Punjab only - You may be close to a great discovery. You are wasting your talent. If you know that it was done only in 'Punjab', you should submit a few journals.

2. 'The Prusha Sukta (Hymn of Man) in Rigveda says: “The Brahmana was his (Purusha’s) mouth; the Rajanya was made out of both his arms. His thighs turned into the Vaishya; from his feet was produced the Shudra”.' - This does not prove anything. To make a point - try living without any of the above and you will know how important each of them are. Besides this has no relation to the context.

3. ' religion of the ancient Punjabi was declared Nastadharama (destroyed religion)' - No source.

4. A newspaper article is not countersigned by historians around the world. It is news. It is written by Mustaq Soofi - and NOT accepted by the world community. His views are as invaluable as yours or mine.

Rigveda were composed in the cementery H culture region.

 

[INDIC]

How about Hindus converted to Christianity or Judaism? I know its problematic for Hindus to convert to Muslims in India. The whole family, clan and caste would disown the Hindu that convert to Islam. As Muslims were the rulers of India for 800 years prior to British conquest.

I never heard Judaism allow conversion, one can only be a Jew if his mother is a Jew.

Most of the people don't care if anyone converts to other religion but Buddhism is very special for us.