Thousands of Christians Pray for Democracy in China

[terranMarine]

Democracy is not perfect and my country is not perfect, but democracy is still preferable to any other system of government. You can try and keep it at bay, but in the end, people want a say in their government, people want their government to be accountable to them. Some of what you say is true about US actions, and it is hotly debated in America, but debated, and argued over, and elections held over, and reported in the free press, it is and allowed to be. I can go where I want, say what I want, argue and voice any opinion I want, worship how I want, say anything I want of any elected leader in my country, and elected freely and fairly, they all are. Why can I do this? Democracy. Those leaders work for me. I don't work for them. My Congressman and Senators, my president, must ask for my support to keep their jobs. Even if China continues to become rich, it's impact on history will remain muted as long as she clings to a one party state and is frightened of her own people's liberty. You mentioned north Korea. My father fought to keep south Korea from being taken over by the communist in 1950-53. When he was there, it was one of the most impoverished countries in the hemisphere. After the war, one Korea went the way of fear and oppression, of the murderous ideology of communism. In the other, first came economic freedom, then over time, the people demanded political freedom and got it. One need only look at a picture of the two countries at night to know where those two different ideologies lead to.

China has achieved the success that it has over these last few decades because she has admitted internally, what a failure communism is economically and what a success freedom is economically. Despite the crushing of the Tiananmen Square protest, eventually, the Chinese people will demand their political freedom as well. You are in Sweden? Look around. Why do you think the Swedes have not only a high standards of living, but freedom, a good life without fear, with good education, health care, police, courts, press, etc., without restrictions on what they want to believe, worship, write, speak, or how they want to live? Why do you think people from around the world are trying to get into Sweden any way they can, (just like the USA), and not out of it? It isn't an accident that they have achieved so much. Sweden looks the way it does because the people of Sweden demand it of their government. They hold their government accountable for an excellent education system, good health care, fair and open courts, human rights. President Reagan called it the test of the gates. People can argue and debate all they want, but as he said, the facts speak for themselves; where there is freedom, people will try to get to it. Where their is oppression, people will flee from it. How many people want to immigrate to Iran? North Korea, indeed, even China? Maybe some from north Korea do, but tens of thousands of Chinese come to America, year after year, legally and illegally, to find a new life in a free country.

I would like to make one thing clear about the Americans who fought the Korean War. It was not because of the western ideology. America was afraid of the spread of Communism back in those days and that's why they were involved in the Vietnam war and the Korean war. During the Cold War era America indoctrinated its citizens about the danger of Communism and to fear them.

You speak of political freedom and that your government is working for you. I have friends in other EU countries and their government don't listen to its people. Those EU citizens want their country to drop Greece and stop financial aid to the bankrupt country but none of the leaders want to listen. All their tax money go to that poor country and how is that gonna benefit them? They ain't gonna see those money back just judging the current situation in Greece. This is just to show you that in a democratic country politicians don't always make decisions for the benefit of the citizens but good for their own pockets.

What gives you the right to criticize China for having only one party? There would be less disputes and decisions can be taken quickly unlike the constant fighting between the Democrats and the Republicans. China has made good progress these past decades and continue to do so, there's no need for a foreigner like you to tell China how politics should be practiced according to American standards. North Korea is ruled by dictatorship whereas Chinese people have considerable freedom to do what they want, they just don't have the choice to pick party members. Please don't talk about human rights when the whole world knows that your country torture pow in guatanomo bay. Just visit some Chinese cities and see for yourself how Chinese people are living and whether they are suppressed or not.

 

[ephone]

I do not mind the multi-religions in China. However, I do mind that there is any possibility that one religion will become dominant.

Over a thousand Christians met in Hong Kong last week to pray for democracy in China before attending a candlelight vigil to commemorate the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989.

The prayer meeting was organised by the Catholic Justice and Peace Commission at Victoria Park, where the candlelight vigil was held later. The vigil attracted over 180,000 participants
this year.

At the prayer meeting, Franciscan friar Yeung Yim said that although the Beijing crackdown took place more than two decades ago, Chinese people should not forget the tragedy. He said that God was love, and one of the best ways to respond to God’s calling was to attend the vigil and pray for the victims.

The celebrant of the prayer meeting, Fr Simon Li Chi-yuen, encouraged the faithful to struggle for democracy and freedom.

He also reminded Christians that Tiananmen was not a past event as some of those involved continue to experience political oppression today.

Christian groups in Hong Kong used the anniversary to urge Beijing to investigate the death of Li Wangyang.

Li was a veteran democracy activist who was jailed for 21 years for his involvement in the Tiananmen protests. He died in a hospital in Hunan on 6 June in suspicious circumstances.


1,000 Christians pray for democracy in China | Christian News on Christian Today

 

[gambit]

I would like to make one thing clear about the Americans who fought the Korean War. It was not because of the western ideology. America was afraid of the spread of Communism back in those days and that's why they were involved in the Vietnam war and the Korean war. During the Cold War era America indoctrinated its citizens about the danger of Communism and to fear them.

And the communist do not do the same?

http://www.amazon.com/Mig-Pilot-Final-Escape-Belenko/dp/0380538687

You speak of political freedom and that your government is working for you. I have friends in other EU countries and their government don't listen to its people. Those EU citizens want their country to drop Greece and stop financial aid to the bankrupt country but none of the leaders want to listen. All their tax money go to that poor country and how is that gonna benefit them? They ain't gonna see those money back just judging the current situation in Greece. This is just to show you that in a democratic country politicians don't always make decisions for the benefit of the citizens but good for their own pockets.

How do you know they profited from helping out other countries? Japan helped out during the Asian financial crisis of 1997.

What gives you the right to criticize China for having only one party?

The right granted by the freedom of speech and thought. If you feel you have the right to criticize US, what make you think China is immune?

There would be less disputes and decisions can be taken quickly unlike the constant fighting between the Democrats and the Republicans. China has made good progress these past decades and continue to do so, there's no need for a foreigner like you to tell China how politics should be practiced according to American standards.

Of course if there is no dissent decisions can be made quickly, which includes bad decisions as well.

North Korea is ruled by dictatorship whereas Chinese people have considerable freedom to do what they want, they just don't have the choice to pick party members. Please don't talk about human rights when the whole world knows that your country torture pow in guatanomo bay. Just visit some Chinese cities and see for yourself how Chinese people are living and whether they are suppressed or not.

China have plenty of 'Guantanamo Bays' internally. Do you deny that?

 

[Sasquatch]

I do not mind the multi-religions in China. However, I do mind that there is any possibility that one religion will become dominant.

Majority of Chinese are atheist the more educated people don't fall for the missionaries.

 

[peaceful]

I do not mind the multi-religions in China. However, I do mind that there is any possibility that one religion will become dominant.

that is why US/EU need more peaceful Muslims.

 

[terranMarine]

gambit, no doubt they too were warned about the dangerous America. But the fear from the Americans were so great they attacked North Vietnam and North Korea and not the other way around. A link showing me that a Russian pilot defected is nothing special, how many US soldiers defected to Canada?

I do not want to go off topic and debate about financial crisis because i used it as an example referring to politics in democratic countries. If you want to know more about the financial crisis in EU just search on the web and you will find how much euros went to Greece and what the thoughts of EU citizens are towards their own government and why they shall never see those euros back.

I don't criticize US for having only 2 parties or that EU nations have plenty of different parties. Because we don't tell other nations how to run their own country. US and the West often criticize that China should be a democratic country and want us to be able to choose our own leaders. Sorry but what has it got to do with you or any other foreigner how a country should be run?

I won't deny China also has torture practices but America is not that much different now is it? Too bad for you those info leaked out and the world knows what kind of country America truly is.

 

[ephone]

I do not think majority of Chinese are atheists at all.

They all have this or that, these or those beliefs.

Few are really atheists actually.

Majority of Chinese are atheist the more educated people don't fall for the missionaries.

 

[Sasquatch]

I do not think majority of Chinese are atheists at all.

They all have this or that, these or those beliefs.

Few are really atheists actually.

you sure ? most don't care for religion.

 

[gambit]

gambit, no doubt they too were warned about the dangerous America. But the fear from the Americans were so great they attacked North Vietnam and North Korea and not the other way around.

You conveniently 'forgot' the Cuban Missile Crisis where Soviet nuclear weapons were planned to be within 100 miles to US. This mean the communist bloc had every intention to bring a war, conventional or otherwise, to the Western Hemisphere.

A link showing me that a Russian pilot defected is nothing special, how many US soldiers defected to Canada?

None. Canada is a member of the Western bloc. To 'defect' mean a person has to seek asylum in a hostile country. For those US soldiers who did fled to our 52nd state, they did it because they did not want to go to war, not because the ideological and political environment in the US is somehow hostile to their well being. Whereas we have plenty of communist soldiers, Soviet and Chinese and many others, who fled the communist bloc out of genuine fear and distaste for what they lived under.

I do not want to go off topic and debate about financial crisis because i used it as an example referring to politics in democratic countries. If you want to know more about the financial crisis in EU just search on the web and you will find how much euros went to Greece and what the thoughts of EU citizens are towards their own government and why they shall never see those euros back.

You did. Nevertheless, you used the wrong analogy in a feeble attempt to discredit democracy.

I don't criticize US for having only 2 parties or that EU nations have plenty of different parties. Because we don't tell other nations how to run their own country. US and the West often criticize that China should be a democratic country and want us to be able to choose our own leaders. Sorry but what has it got to do with you or any other foreigner how a country should be run?

There are more people in China wanting democratic values and processes than there are people in the US wanting the US to be like China with a dictatorial government. A dictatorship can be a self restrained one but the fact that a potential exist for a brutal dictatorship because of non-competing political factions is something that is proven to be distasteful to people everywhere. So just because YOU personally do not criticize US in no way mean others outside of the Americans in this forum cannot criticize China. If we are fair game for criticism, so is your China.

I won't deny China also has torture practices but America is not that much different now is it? Too bad for you those info leaked out and the world knows what kind of country America truly is.

The Guantanomo Bay prison is a unique case: A prisoner-of-war camp. And we do not torture despite what few pictures you can bring up. Whereas China have many 'Guantanomo Bay' prisons deliberately designed for Chinese citizens because the Party considers itself in a constant war against the people it rule over. Buddy, you are smart enough to know the differences between an ordinary prison for petty criminals versus a prison where political dissidents are sent. So yes, we are that much different than your China.

 

[Icewolf]

And we do not torture despite what few pictures you can bring up

Did you pull this out of your a**? Waterboarding? Even WikiLinks says that US has done numerous torture in Guan-whatever bay.

 

[gambit]

Did you pull this out of your a**? Waterboarding? Even WikiLinks says that US has done numerous torture in Guan-whatever bay.

When people think of the word 'torture' they think of pulling of fingernails, breaking a knee or two, cigarette burns, and so on. Did you know that we waterboard our own soldiers and civilians?

Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Am not going to tell you what goes on in SERE but I can tell you that foreign militaries and civilians have completed the training as well. The context of 'torture' have been expanded to include loud music and even harsh words.

 

[Icewolf]

When people think of the word 'torture' they think of pulling of fingernails, breaking a knee or two, cigarette burns, and so on. Did you know that we waterboard our own soldiers and civilians?

Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Am not going to tell you what goes on in SERE but I can tell you that foreign militaries and civilians have completed the training as well. The context of 'torture' have been expanded to include loud music and even harsh words.

Don't beat around the bush. Do you admit that what you do in Guantomono Bay is torture?

 

[gambit]

Don't beat around the bush. Do you admit that what you do in Guantomono Bay is torture?

Sure, if you include: harsh words, loud music, no soccer fields, no cable TV, no religious allowance, no three square meals, and many more...Then absolutely it is 'torturous' living there.

 

[Yunsong]

hi, first the "terrible violence" in old testament has reasons.
usually that was the result of human wickedness.
but there are also good things too...
may be u can cite an example or incident to discuss?

second, your attraction to christianity is misled by senses.
all the cathedrals, cross, priest flowing robes are inventions of man
early christians were not like that at all.
usually they met at homes, not magnificent bricks & mortar.

third, u need to study the the lifestyle of early christians in the bible.
(fyi, the term christians was coined by non-christians mentioned only 3 times in the bible

in short u should study the bible not the people who claim to be "christians"

christianity has nothing to do with buildings & corrupt system of present world.
it has everything to do with god's future plan with human including u & i.

do u read bible? do u know its spirit?

I hope you will not get me hidden meanings in the sentences like the other Christians I have spoken!
She has the meaning it mean!

I know the Christian history, creation by Paul Tarsus and no by Jesus, crusade, massacre , origin in the Middle East.
I know well how Christians lived in the first time.

The origin of Christianity which has strong ties with the abrahimique religion ( jew , Islam , chrsitian ).
If you have read , you know the stoning of the laws of Moses? the veiled woman, .....

And yes I've read some (1/4 Old Testament) of the Bible (but I doubt that you have read)

When I speak of my attraction is also the Finding of other people I have noticed.
The attraction for bling bling.

I don't care the other countries ok ? I don't want just in China ok ?

I don't want to become like South Korean religionist with their madness and their desire to destroy Buddhism in their country ( because he are atheist and their fear of having their family go to hell )
The U.S. with their hatred against atheists, protect Israel for religious or other reason.
Or phillipine with their stupid ceremony !


S. korean christians praying for Buddhist temple to collapse (NOW WITH ENGLISH SUBTITLES) - YouTube ( look first commentary by a chinese christian ... )
Obsessed Christian Korean Mental Child Abuse - YouTube

If the video is truth with the correctly translation, I promise I will do everything to prevent the back of Christianity in China ( there are other reasons why I don't want christianity )
You know what ? I have never been so scared a religion in my life.


Bibles for China | Facebook ( majority american people (USA))

I'm scared by that with their stupid objective! so arrogant , look at the category he tries to convert! the poor! ignorant!
their methods is disgusting , they Take advantage of the weakness of his people for convertirs

 

[Yunsong]

I don't want China to "overtake you". I just don't fear any country that is democratic, respects human rights and human dignity and is ruled by law, not by power. A democratic China can do great things for the world, just as a democratic India does.

Sorry I don't want vote stupidly like european people with their stupid treaty maastricht , I don't want to be american who say " We are free ! we live in a freedom country " stupid don't know the definition of freedom .

respectful of human rights? your country respect? you know the contents the human rights ?

View your previous comment, you are seriously arrogant to ​​speak on behalf of the Chinese people!

And 1.3 billion Chinese do not think the same .

You can criticize my country the day you travel in my country or information relevant and avoiding to be a pigeon by your newspapers.
I am sure that your image of China is based only on Shanghai and Beijing ( and maybe Shenzhen and Guaugdong ), the rest is misery.
I guess you do not know Nanjing, Suzhou, Hangzhou, Wuhan, Wuxi, Nanchang, Kunming, Urumqi, ....

And why many western people come in my country ?