What's new

These will be the 32 most powerful economies in the world by 2050

That is the Chinese perspective.
I am afraid the neighbours do not see it that way.

Those non-western countries are lured into a kind of dependency on China which
appears to be a modern version of the Russian serfdom.
They will not formally be slaves, but so much in debt, that China has total control over them.

It's no worse than the way the West have subjugated the developing world in recent times. However, China won't be bombing and invading disobedient vassal states. China has shown it is adept at economic warfare and can force resolution of disputes via non-violent means.

Kowtowing to bigger and more powerful states is a fact of state diplomacy throughout history. Even mighty West will have to eat some humble pie in not too distant future. Can western ego take this change of power dynamics?
 
.
Western-centric and outdated ideas. West have been stagnating for decades. Chinese are bold and willing to invest obscene money in areas such as supercomputing, quantum computing/communication, AI, solar/renewable energy industries, automated robotic manufacturing, electric cars, etc.. These are areas the West need investment in but are too short-sighted and complacement with their service economies. I live in the UK and know full well how backwards supposed leading Western nations have become.

Sure China's smaller neighbours are apprehensive of China's rise but China has shown restraint in recent provocations from Japan, India, Vietnam and Philippines, etc. and showing the World that China stands for peace and not the old ways of brutal hegemony that the US has enforced. China is working on building trust with its neighbours and all East-Asia will benefit from the spill-over effect of China's success.

If you want to keep believing that the Western way is the correct and best way, then be my guest. Many non-western countries are seeing things much more differently.

I must disagree with you about the peaceful China. At the border with Vietnam, Chinese soldiers always provoke with building up the area or let the tourist go near the border line or sometimes they use economic sanction to show the dominant in the SEA.
 
.
So Pakistan and Saudi Arabia would have an identical GDP by 2050?
 
.
Lol. I can predict better than this crap.

Here's bubble bustling news from the future.

many countries will not exist by 2050 as geography map is gonna change due to WW3 coused by Kim the fat boy.
 
.
Western-centric and outdated ideas. West have been stagnating for decades.

German GDP in billion Euro from 1950 till 2016

1950 49.69billion Euro
1960 155.47billion Euro
1970 360.60billion Euro
1980 788.52billion Euro
1990 1.306.78billion Euro
2000 2.116.48billion Euro
2010 2.580.06billion Euro
2015 3.043.65billion Euro
2016 3.144.05billion Euro

the outdated ideas and stagnating since decades works pretty well for me....

https://de.statista.com/statistik/d...dsprodukt-von-deutschland-seit-dem-jahr-1950/
 
.
German GDP in billion Euro from 1950 till 2016

1950 49.69billion Euro
1960 155.47billion Euro
1970 360.60billion Euro
1980 788.52billion Euro
1990 1.306.78billion Euro
2000 2.116.48billion Euro
2010 2.580.06billion Euro
2015 3.043.65billion Euro
2016 3.144.05billion Euro

the outdated ideas and stagnating since decades works pretty well for me....

https://de.statista.com/statistik/d...dsprodukt-von-deutschland-seit-dem-jahr-1950/

China GDP over a similar timeframe.

2016 11,202.92 Billion USD
2015 11,063.07 Billion USD
2010 6,101.34 Billion USD
2000 1,211.35 Billion USD
1990 394.57 Billion USD
1980 306.17 Billion USD
1970 227.97 Billion USD
1960 59.72 Billion USD
1952 30.55 Billion USD

From 1990 to 2016, German GDP grew by less than 2.5 times, which is what I would define as last few decades. China GDP grew by nearly 28.5 times over the same timeframe. Stagnation and growth is relative. Anything else you would like to add?
 
. .
The People’s Republic of China has surely seen faster GDP growth than the United States for most of the past forty years. It's the value of that growth that's questionable.

The people complaining about U.S. decline in the face of China’s rise under President Obama have been replaced by new people complaining about the same thing under President Trump. The debate over policy in the two administrations plainly matters, but it should not obscure basic facts. The most important of these facts is that, in terms of total economic resources, China is not in America’s league and may not even be catching up.

GDP Is Overrated, or Worse


It seems strange to say this with China having reported faster growth in gross domestic product (GDP) for decades. First, it’s worth asking if and when Beijing will admit that its economy struggled. For instance, China reported 7.9 percent GDP growth for the second quarter of 2009 yet continued the world’s largest loan program, and saw much of it turn to debt despite the supposedly fast growth. It’s almost as if the economy did not do nearly as well as the Communist Party claimed.

Still, the People’s Republic has almost surely seen faster GDP growth than the United States for most of the past forty years. The question is its value. For ordinary Chinese, disposable income (as reported by Beijing) is less than half of GDP per capita. Disposable income is money that can actually be spent while GDP per capita is an accounting device, with little relevance in the real world.

Even less relevant is GDP adjusted by purchasing power parity (PPP). PPP requires computing a price level for all of China and comparing it to all of America, itself slightly absurd. It relies on “the law of one price”—arbitrage across open markets causing prices for the same product to equalize. Chinese market barriers mean arbitrage often fails. Related, PPP is meant to apply to consumer buying power, while consumption is less than 50 percent of Chinese GDP. GDP adjusted by purchasing power is a poor measurement for many countries, including China.

Net Private Wealth

Simple GDP is better than that, but it’s far from the only measurement and may not be the most important. The resources available to countries to pursue national interests are captured in net national wealth, which again takes the form of money that can be spent rather than an accounting result. If conceptualized and measured accurately, annual GDP should capture contributions over time to the stock of wealth. It should be not be surprising that Chinese GDP turns out not to be tightly associated with wealth.

Credit Suisse compiles net private wealth in most national economies going back to 2000. The data are unstable in that there can be later revision, so the most recent results should be considered tentative. Against that, there are two reassuring features: (i) any bias should be considerably smaller than the bias of the Chinese government and (ii) the results do reflect China’s rise through 2012.

From 2000–2012, net private Chinese wealth jumped from $4.66 trillion (less than India’s today) to $21.7 trillion, close to a 14 percent annual growth rate. American net private wealth over the same period rose from $42.3 trillion to $67.5 trillion. While the absolute advantage for the United States expanded, it did so by only $8 trillion because U.S. annual growth was only four percent. China was easily outperforming.

The situation has changed sharply since then. From the end of 2012 to the middle of 2017, Chinese net private wealth has climbed $7.3 trillion, annual growth never touching 9 percent. American net private wealth jumped $26 trillion. The American base was much bigger and American growth also became a bit faster. The result: mid-2017 Chinese net private wealth was $29 trillion and American net private wealth was over $93 trillion. The Federal Reserve supports the Credit Suisse number, putting American household net worth at $96 trillion.

Just as GDP is not the perfect measurement of economic performance, nor is private wealth. Neither provide information about growing global concerns about inequality. But wealth does reframe the U.S.-China discussion. Claims that China is about to eclipse the United States are untenable in the face of $64 trillion less in net private wealth. Claims that China is outpacing the United States are challenged by the private wealth gap widening by $18 trillion in the past four and a half years after widening by less than half that the previous twelve years. In terms of private wealth, China is barely visible in America’s rear mirror.

The Public Sector

Of course Credit Suisse could just be wrong about the PRC. And there are two more questions to raise. The first is whether U.S. dominance since 2012 reflects American stock and property bubbles being bigger than China’s property bubble, so that the gap will narrow when all bubbles pop. This is entirely possible, but will not matter much. Private wealth declines of the magnitude seen during the global financial crisis, for instance, would leave the U.S. $56 trillion ahead, the same-size gap as 2014.

The fundamental limitation of net private wealth lies in “private.” It is total national wealth which enables pursuit of national interest—the public sector must be included. This is not an easy task. The Party suppresses information on debt problems in the PRC’s huge banking system. The U.S. government’s evaluation of public-sector assets is questionable. However, U.S. federal debt and gross Chinese state assets are both very large, narrowing the wealth gap.

There are official Chinese data on state corporate assets that at least have been internally consistent for some years. These put mid-2017 gross assets at 145 trillion yuan and liabilities a bit over ninety-five trillion yuan, for $7.4 trillion in net state corporate assets at official exchange rates. However, there are strong incentives for state firms to overstate assets and understate debt. This corporate asset figure should be seen as a maximum.

Other public liabilities include central and local government debt. These are considerably smaller than state corporate debt—their official level was $4.1 trillion at the end of 2016. Beijing’s numbers for this have become suspiciously stable and a comparable Bank of International Settlements (BIS) number is $1.1 trillion higher at the end of March 2017, rising such that $5.3 trillion can be used as the mid-2017 estimate.

The biggest state asset beyond corporate holdings is land. It is generally difficult to assign value to large amounts of land because mass sales would cause prices to plummet. It is more difficult in the PRC due to the government’s distorting role. Data over time on revenue from land sales imply a very round value of state land assets of $3.7 trillion at the end of 2016. It is probably a bit higher by mid-2017, though sales are unstable.

This land value could be too low, just as corporate liabilities are probably too low. But the errors run against each other, leaving a rough estimate of public sector assets as adding $6 trillion to net private wealth. Chinese national wealth mid-2017 is therefore approximately $35 trillion, perhaps a bit higher.

On the American side, the main event is federal debt, $19.8 trillion in mid-2017. State and local debt added almost $3 trillion to that. Simple. The problem lies with assets, meaning property.

The federal government owns over 27 percent of all U.S. land while state and local governments push that above 33 percent. Estimates of the worth of this land run from less than $3 trillion for federal and local combined to more than $125 trillion for just federal (using dubious assumptions about commodities). The Federal Reserve puts U.S. government nonfinancial assets at $14 trillion in mid-2017, $10 trillion in state and local government buildings, so its figure for U.S. net wealth exceeds $88 trillion.. But selling those buildings would crush prices, implying a far lower present value.

An indirect calculation based on broader Federal Reserve real estate data yields $9.1 trillion in combined government assets mid-2017. This puts the American public sector position at negative $13.6 trillion and net national American wealth a little below $80 trillion. The wealth gap closes when the public sector is incorporated, but it’s still huge.

American Choices

Land value estimates are imprecise, at best. Asset prices mean wealth can shift sharply. The Credit Suisse private wealth data have been—and can again be—revised. But Credit Suisse, the U.S. Treasury, the Federal Reserve, the BIS, and even the Chinese government (with respect to state corporates and land sales) provide cohesive data over time.

The United States is nearly $45 trillion ahead of China in net national wealth. Further, the gap is not presently closing. It is not closing in private wealth in isolation, it is not according to BIS debt data, and it is not according to this calculation method which utilizes Chinese reporting. In this sense, faster Chinese GDP growth is revealed as somewhat meaningless, at least starting this decade.

If America chooses not to compete with China in East Asia or lead globally, then no wealth advantage matters. When and where we choose to compete, the resource advantage rests overwhelmingly with us, and it will for the indefinite future.

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-economic-power-paper-tiger-23326

In terms of national wealth, China is not even in the same ballpark as the US.
 
.
many of countries listed will not exist in 2050
 
.
Vietnam is the country to watch. :agree:
Vietnam have a large population 100million.
Vietnam have the same hard working Confucius culture.
Vietnam's is in a peaceful and stable region...No war or internal insurgency.
Vietnam is a one party state which is politically stable.
Vietnam is near a lot of more advanced and wealthy economy like HK, Taiwan, Korea, Japan and China. These countries complement each other economically.

All the above conditions are required for economic growth.:agree:

Compared that with India ! :disagree:
 
Last edited:
.
Vietnam is the country to watch. :agree:
Vietnam have a large population 100million.
Vietnam have the same hard working Confucius culture.
Vietnam's is in a peaceful and stable region...No war or internal insurgency.
Vietnam is a one party state which is politically stable.
Vietnam is near a lot of more advanced and wealthy economy like HK, Taiwan, Korea, Japan and China. These countries complement each other economically.

All the above conditions are required for economic growth.:agree:

Compared that with India ! :disagree:

Not just Chinese or SE Asian, but everyone has more respect for Vietnam than Supa Powa 2012.
 
.
China GDP over a similar timeframe.

2016 11,202.92 Billion USD
2015 11,063.07 Billion USD
2010 6,101.34 Billion USD
2000 1,211.35 Billion USD
1990 394.57 Billion USD
1980 306.17 Billion USD
1970 227.97 Billion USD
1960 59.72 Billion USD
1952 30.55 Billion USD

From 1990 to 2016, German GDP grew by less than 2.5 times, which is what I would define as last few decades. China GDP grew by nearly 28.5 times over the same timeframe. Stagnation and growth is relative. Anything else you would like to add?

you know that if you have reached a extrem high GPD per captiva you cant grow that fast anymore....
The only reason why China can grow that fast is the way below world average GDP per captiva...

It is much more difficult to grow from $48.000 per captiva to $52.000 than from $6.000 to $8.000 per captiva

If China will ever reach similar GDP per captiva we can talk again about stagnation...

Lets see how fast China grows if they ever get over $20.000 per captiva...
 
.
This projection is good for India, only if there is no major war involving India vs Pakistan or China.
 
.
you know that if you have reached a extrem high GPD per captiva you cant grow that fast anymore....
The only reason why China can grow that fast is the way below world average GDP per captiva...

It is much more difficult to grow from $48.000 per captiva to $52.000 than from $6.000 to $8.000 per captiva

If China will ever reach similar GDP per captiva we can talk again about stagnation...

Lets see how fast China grows if they ever get over $20.000 per captiva...
Small countries like Singapore, even Germany, can grow mush faster than huge countries with a mega population like China, so relative speaking, small countries will almost always have per capita advantage over big nations
 
.
you know that if you have reached a extrem high GPD per captiva you cant grow that fast anymore....
The only reason why China can grow that fast is the way below world average GDP per captiva...

It is much more difficult to grow from $48.000 per captiva to $52.000 than from $6.000 to $8.000 per captiva

If China will ever reach similar GDP per captiva we can talk again about stagnation...

Lets see how fast China grows if they ever get over $20.000 per captiva...

You know you're kind of making my point for me right?

China is only just starting and they're already by most real means, i.e. PPP, the biggest economy by a long way. US only leads by nominal GDP because of their inflated Dollar but that will change once China dumps the petrodollar and most of the World will follow. Once China fully develops its domestic consumer base and starts allowing the Yuan to appreciate, which they have suppressed for decades, to allow for an export-driven economy, China's economy will leap far ahead of any other economy, virtually, overnight. Chinese will inevitably have per capita GDP as high, maybe higher than West, in a few decades time. Can you imagine the size of China's economy then? China is a continent-level nation, full of the most industrious and creative people. What you are seeing right now is only the tip of the iceberg of what China can do. The West like to understate because they do not want to fathom what China can and will be. Deal with it my Euro friend!
 
.
Back
Top Bottom