There is no God , There is no Fate - Steven Hawking

[Proudpakistaniguy]

A few years ago i saw children being killed in an earthquake.I could not explain in any way how a god that cares about us would ever let this happen.The preists will explain it as such,why do innocents die ?

1.God is punishing men for their sins.But the child didn't even understand anything.
2.God is testing us.The child never got to that stage at all.
3.It is men that cause pain and suffering,not god.Well not in this case.

Finally the conclusion that was left was very simple.Either he doesn't exist,
or he exists but is not aware/doesnt care about suffering of innocents.(not caused by sins/tests/acts of other men)
or it was an act of nature.God actually won't/can't interfere in the system he has created.Praying is useless.He is like the clockmaker who set the clock in motion and then went to sleep.The system runs on its own now though some cosmic scientist may have started the experiment.

Muslims have different perspective about life and death. God give us life and can take it back whatever way he wish. Suffering and pain in this world is temporary as per Muslims because even most beloved Prophets of Allah faced those hardships and suffering in their lives which we cannot even imagine . Muslims often see some purpose in those suffering or pain which is not result of their own actions (i.e. suffering comes from natural disaster). Muslims believe that they are only on this earth for a short time and this life is a test from Allah where they must endure evil and suffering as a preparation for next life which is eternal. If they respond to sufferings with patience and remain firm in their faith then they will have increased reward in the afterlife. If we had no evil or suffering then we would not even know about these concepts i.e. without evil how would we know what was good? and suffering provides you the opportunity to develop courage and patience.

 

[YeBeWarned]

It doesnt matter what you say or believe.I can sit in my house and say or believe i'm the best.Doesnt make it true.
It is the height of arrogance and insecurity of man to believe that such tiny species from an insignificant planet in an endless universe is the best of creation when they have no idea what is out there,what is their purpose.Humans need to feel they are special,that they have a bigger purpose.This insecurity is at the heart of such funny claims as best of creation.

You Didn't understand my point here, Its not about what I believe its about what around 3 billion people who believe in 3 Ibrahmic Faiths , now i ask you in my previous post, How we are insignificant and you haven't responded .. The Universe is huge , beautiful and deadly but empty .. weird right ? so far we have not able to contact any other life forms and probably never will . so been alone in this universe or Galaxy makes us quite important , this is common sense . using mocking technique will not help it will only show that you are losing the argument

If he won't save them and he knows everyone's fate beforehand there was no point in giving that child life,only to cause pain to him and everyone else and for no purpose.If he won't save them then he either doesnt care or is a clockmaker who cant adjust his own clock.The system is more powerful than him.We are on our own.No point bothering with him.

So basically you think pain and death is suffering ? that's weird that a lot of people kill themselves just because they want to end the suffering which is life for them .. how do you explain that ? a lot of people actually wish to die rather than live . Just because God does not save everyone personally means he doesn't care ? man that is some weird logic ( no offense ) .
The system is infact replica of what he is capable of doing , the system will collapse one day but he wont that is what make God , GOD ..

@AUSTERLITZ @Maarkhoor Please avoid religious mocking ..

 

[xyxmt]

I read steven's book and what he makes his strongest argument in favor of his Godless theory:
how come Saudis still have so much money even after causing so much destruction.

 

[Thorough Pro]

NO, I am not confused, I meant all the knowledge that he had not "all" the knowledge in the world. No one can ever have all the knowledge except the Creator (The GOD ALMIGHTY) Himself. We know only what HE allows us to know. There are trillions of things beyond our imagination and comprehension. We know for a fact the a child's brain can not comprehend a lot of things that are just everyday things for adults but then as he/she grow they start to learn, what makes you think that an adult understands "everything"?

That does not mean Hawking knew EVERYTHING about the universe. I think this is where you are confused of your criticism of him.

All I know is not equal to I know all. Do you see the difference?

All I know could be that I know everything there is about an object or an issue, but it could also mean that the entirety of my knowledge is just a parcel of everything there is about that object or issue.

Take a bank, for example.

I have a checking account and a credit card issued by that bank. So 'all I know' about that bank is confined to my limited financial links to that bank. On the other hand, the bank president would know everything there is about his bank, which would mean his knowledge contains my knowledge, or to put it another way, my knowledge is only a part of his knowledge of that bank. The bank president would have a larger -- macroscope -- view of the bank. I would have a smaller -- microscope -- view of the bank.

That is how we perceive/understand it to be based on the very limited knowledge we have/are allowed to have. The reality might be something totally different and beyond our comprehension.

Life is linear and is a chain. Each link in the chain contains a cause and effects. The effects of one chain make up the cause in the next link. And so on...?

Looks like you are confused here. I am not talking about "a" creator rather "The Creator". Again according our limited knowledge of science the odds of life happening are so negligible that even science disproves the theory of life as an accident, then what's left? Only that it was made possible by some great divine power.

So just because there is a creator that does not mean the creator -- or cause -- is divine. You are talking about the 'First Cause' argument.

I never claimed to be more knowledgeable than him in that particular field, but I certainly am more knowledgeable than him in my field, and that does not prove or disprove anything, not sure what was you point?

Intelligence on the other hand is a subjective matter, you don't know how intelligent or not he was and how intelligent or not I am? Even the tools we use to measure intelligence are subjective and open for debate.

You may perceive him to be a very intelligent person based on certain criteria you have of being intelligent, as per my interpretation of intelligence, self-awareness, knowledge of self (where we come from, what is the purpose of life, what are we supposed to do and where do we go from here, and what after that) takes the top spot, and using that criteria, (not being disrespectful or critical) I don't think he was intelligent. You may not agree with me and I respect that because we have different interpretation of intelligence.

Steven Hawking is both more learned and smarter than you will ever be.?

Science and religion are two different things. Religion is based on blind faith, belief in a deity beyond the laws of science and beyond our imagination.

Science is based on knowledge of observable and repeatable phenomenon, but science itself is neither perfect nor complete, it is evolutionary. A lot of things believed to be scientifically correct a few decades ago are now proven to be wrong. Who knows what scientist believe today to be a fact will be proven wrong in the next decade? So then how can one use this science to prove the creator who created all this science? That is like putting the cart before the horses.

That does not mean he is always correct in his scientific endeavors. Science is about making one thousand or more errors before reaching the correct conclusion. Religion is no different. How many lives lost in how many religious wars and STILL no definitive conclusion as to the existence of a god, let alone THE GOD? And this is where religious explorations on the godhood have been around far longer than scientific explorations.

GOD does not need us. Period.
It does not matter to HIM whether anyone or all of humanity obeys HIM or not.
We need the GOD for our salvation.
If he just needed a creation to pray to him and obey without thinking, then HE already have countless angels to do that. He created us with conscience and desires and gave us wisdom to know the right from wrong. and gave us signs to recognize him, thank him for his blessings and obey him.

All God has to do is appear en masse. Why bother with an agent?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

So just because there is a creator that does not mean the creator -- or cause -- is divine. You are talking about the 'First Cause' argument.

I think this is at the heart of what Stephen Hawking was saying.

"Time" does not exist at points of infinite gravity (singularities) or for massless particles that travel at the speed of light (photons/gluons). This is due to the effect of time dilation, and we know the theory is accurate because otherwise satellites would not be able to function properly (their clocks experience time slightly differently).

When "time" does not exist, there is no difference between a "first cause" and a "secondary consequence". In fact, in these conditions, causality can be reversed. Or all events can happen simultaneously, like what a photon experiences, since it does not experience time.

Therefore, the secondary consequence (the creation of the universe) could have happened BEFORE the cause (the creator creating the universe). Meaning that the creator of the universe, could very well have been the universe itself. Or both events could have happened simultaneously. After all, what has enough size and power to create the universe? Maybe the universe itself?

To be fair, our modern understanding of physics is still incomplete and flawed, but modern physics can still predict physical phenomena to an extreme degree of accuracy (see how the Standard model predicts particle interactions), so for now it is the best that we have. What other field can accurately predict the movement of a star across the sky, its rotation and elemental composition, or even the interaction of objects here on Earth to such a degree.

 

[YeBeWarned]

After all, what has enough size and power to create the universe? Maybe the universe itself?

Just to Point out, back in time when Universe started it was a singular entity , it wasn't big or contain that infinite Energy right ? so technically God doesn't have to be in Universe or a Universe to create another universe ( if it make sense ) .. Weird thing is that this self sustaining Universe will not be able to sustain itself for a infinite amount of time, the same science tells us that Universe will end even if it will take time beyond our comprehension .

 

[gambit]

NO, I am not confused, I meant all the knowledge that he had not "all" the knowledge in the world.

Good.

No one can ever have all the knowledge except the Creator (The GOD ALMIGHTY) Himself. We know only what HE allows us to know. There are trillions of things beyond our imagination and comprehension. We know for a fact the a child's brain can not comprehend a lot of things that are just everyday things for adults but then as he/she grow they start to learn, what makes you think that an adult understands "everything"?

Therein lies the crux of science. We do not raise our children based upon faith. In the early yrs of development -- yes. But as they grows, they gained increased mental acuity, reasoning skills, and finally -- doubt. Children believes adults are 'ALMIGHTY', young adults do not. In order to assuage their doubts, we teaches them certain methodologies and life skills to help them make it thru life. We do not tell young adults to live life based upon faith.

As science progresses, the 'ALMIGHTY' is getting less and less so with every generation.

Again according our limited knowledge of science the odds of life happening are so negligible that even science disproves the theory of life as an accident, then what's left? Only that it was made possible by some great divine power.

I would like to see your source for this claim -- that science have disproved the theory of life as an accident. This would be Nobel Prize level.

I never claimed to be more knowledgeable than him in that particular field, but I certainly am more knowledgeable than him in my field, and that does not prove or disprove anything, not sure what was you point?

My point is that you are treading into his field. Hawking is not some mere dabbler in the sciences. What he studied, taught, and researched have theoretical and theological consequences. Sorry, but whatever expertise you have -- do not measure up.

Intelligence on the other hand is a subjective matter, you don't know how intelligent or not he was and how intelligent or not I am? Even the tools we use to measure intelligence are subjective and open for debate.

Intelligence is not subjective. It is measurable even with the flawed tools we have. And intelligence certainly is observable. Talk to any HR specialist during the job interview process.

Science and religion are two different things. Religion is based on blind faith, belief in a deity beyond the laws of science and beyond our imagination.

In that case, Religion infantilizes humanity, like how adults needs children to be in order to raise them, then Science matures humanity.

Science is based on knowledge of observable and repeatable phenomenon, but science itself is neither perfect nor complete, it is evolutionary. A lot of things believed to be scientifically correct a few decades ago are now proven to be wrong. Who knows what scientist believe today to be a fact will be proven wrong in the next decade? So then how can one use this science to prove the creator who created all this science? That is like putting the cart before the horses.

At least Science is self correcting. On the other hand, Religion resists changes to the point of violence. We have 'religious' wars, but when was the last time countries or peoples fought each other to deaths over changes of the periodic table? Pluto was demoted from full planet status and the worst that happened were paper cuts or strained wrists, whereas, all someone has to do was vaguely insinuated that the Quran was 'desecrated' and someone is likely to get his head lopped off.

GOD does not need us. Period.
It does not matter to HIM whether anyone or all of humanity obeys HIM or not.
We need the GOD for our salvation.
If he just needed a creation to pray to him and obey without thinking, then HE already have countless angels to do that. He created us with conscience and desires and gave us wisdom to know the right from wrong. and gave us signs to recognize him, thank him for his blessings and obey him.

Then it looks like God needs us -- badly.

We need children to propagate the species. Does God needs us to replace Him? If God is so 'almighty', then what is the point of us humans heaping all the adulation upon Him? Is God that emotionally and psychologically insecure?

The questions I posed came from my allegedly 'God-given' mental abilities, such as intelligence, reasoning, and doubt. I do have emotional and psychological insecurities -- as we all do -- and I need to have those insecurities addressed by my friends, family, co-workers, political figures, and even by strangers like you on the Internet. So my question is that since God is so 'almighty', what does He needs of us? The scale and scope of the godhood is so awesome that it literally is impossible to imagine how God would need the adulation from us to the point that if we do not obey His directives He would punish us. For what and even more important -- WHY?

And no, Intelligent Design is not 'scientific'.

Science is based upon doubts and is able to self correct. ID is based upon an assumption and no doubts are allowed, therefore, no self correction is possible, which leads humanity in an unbreakable circle. ID proponents are essentially religionists in the same cloth as that of bishops and ayatollahs who, when found they cannot physically enforce their beliefs upon the flocks, donned the white coats of Science to try to psychologically influence the people. I equate ID to being an intellectual lingerie, of sort.

My analogy is simple, anything that exist is a made by a creator. Universe must be made by someone.

Just because something came to be, that does not mean its cause MUST be of intelligence and deliberateness. An accident can create consequences.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

so technically God doesn't have to be in Universe or a Universe to create another universe ( if it make sense )

Yes, some scientists believe that our universe is just one of many "bubble universes" floating in a larger multiverse. Like this:

So it is possible that something from "outside the universe" was the first cause that started the Big Bang.

But so far we can only see the observable universe, which might not even be 1% of our own universe. Who knows what might be out there, even in our own universe.

A lot of things believed to be scientifically correct a few decades ago are now proven to be wrong. Who knows what scientist believe today to be a fact will be proven wrong in the next decade?

That's right, Science is always changing. What we know now might be completely wrong, even if we can use it to predict physical phenomena to an extreme degree of accuracy, that doesn't mean it is guaranteed to be a correct theory.

I believe it was Einstein who said that the only physical law he is certain will never be overturned, is the second law of thermodynamics. And even that might be wrong one day, in this universe or some other.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Yes, some scientists believe that our universe is just one of many "bubble universes" floating in a larger multiverse. Like this:

it would make thing even more interesting yet complicated haha , imagine if we live in a multi-verse , it will raise a million more questions .

So it is possible that something from "outside the universe" was the first cause that started the Big Bang.

But so far we can only see the observable universe, which might not even be 1% of our own universe. Who knows what might be out there, even in our own universe.

Thing is it just not have to be out side the universe but Powerful enough to initiate a violent event like Big bang, plus this Deity must be intelligent enough to pre-program this new or one universe that when the moment of Split happens, it take the shape how he wanted . I would not put my eggs on Chances here lol

 

[gambit]

Aaah but you are completely avoiding the entire sequence of argumentation I am presenting. Pointwise:

Very well...

1. The test is to believe in God by observing the manifestations of His Power.

Same can be argued for the magician. He sawed his assistant in half and his test is for you to believe in his power.

2. In order to explain the full rules, He sent the Prophets (Peace be upon them).

Why not explained the rules Himself? God is 'almighty', no?

3. The Prophets (Peace be upon them) didn't present merely an empty claim, they presented miracles as concrete, undeniable proof.

The problem with going thru the human agency is the greater risk of having one's message being tainted by the agent's biases which leads to misrepresentation and/or an incompetent agent which results in the incomplete or even false message. One would think that an 'almighty' God would have recognize that potential. And from the religious wars, looks like God have missed it.

4. The Last Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) has left the Holy Quran as an ever lasting miracle.

If you have to resort to multiple human agents with multiple versions of your rules, and the results of each time are still the same, what does that say about you rather than of your agents?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Insanity
The definition of insanity, is, doing the exact same f**king thing over and over again, expecting shit to change.

Is God insane?

There is no invention here. The rules have been provided by Allah, and per those rules there is going to be a life after death. It is actually wrong to say that people invented this out of fear.

All it takes is one person who returned from the next life, not the afterlife which is really death, for the rest of the world to believe, assuming there is a next life after this one.

Am not talking about the nonsense that we have today about psychics who 'channels' spirits or those who have 'near death' experiences.

Am saying that this person, who returned from the next life, must be verified as dead by authorities in this life. His/her body is proven buried or cremated. Then somehow, one day we see this person among us either in a new body or the old one reformed. We will even accept the returned person as in an amorphous state. But no matter which, as long as we can study this person under current scientific examinations, we will accept that he/she returned from the next life. What comes next is inevitable that this person will tell us which version of God is the true one.

 

[YeBeWarned]

All it takes is one person who returned from the next life, not the afterlife which is really death, for the rest of the world to believe, assuming there is a next life after this one.

Am not talking about the nonsense that we have today about psychics who 'channels' spirits or those who have 'near death' experiences.

Am saying that this person, who returned from the next life, must be verified as dead by authorities in this life. His/her body is proven buried or cremated. Then somehow, one day we see this person among us either in a new body or the old one reformed. We will even accept the returned person as in an amorphous state. But no matter which, as long as we can study this person under current scientific examinations, we will accept that he/she returned from the next life. What comes next is inevitable that this person will tell us which version of God is the true one.

My Friend, One thing i am definitely sure of that even what you say become reality , you will still not believe in God, and you will bring further Questions rather than accepting it from the honest heart . and second thing is , the kind of prove you desire is completely funny to hear to others, and millions of people would want a different kind of Prove to accept God . so Technically your Argument will self collapse on itself that for every person from the first Man to the last , the idea of prove of God existence will be different , and you cant say if God do what you want him to do, thus generation after us there will be another Gambit who will reject God by saying , I didn't see it happen so why would i believe .. and it will become a never ending paradox

@Chinese-Dragon what kind of Prove you would desire from God to believe in him ? A Giant Face in Sky ? a Dead man walking ? some Voice from the Sky ? Flying spaghetti monster ? a Cow in sky ?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

@Chinese-Dragon what kind of Prove you would desire from God to believe in him ? A Giant Face in Sky ? a Dead man walking ? some Voice from the Sky ? Flying spaghetti monster ? a Cow in sky ?

It doesn't have to be "proof", but it does need to be something that counts as empirical evidence, i.e. something that is testable and observable.

How do we know gravity exists? Well, we can test it and observe it.

A Giant Face in Sky ? a Dead man walking ? some Voice from the Sky ? Flying spaghetti monster ? a Cow in sky ?

All of these things can be done by magicians or computer special effects. Yet none of them can pass a scientific test in a controlled environment.

Some Universities have a reward of a million dollars to anyone who can prove something paranormal or supernatural within the confines of a scientific testing environment. Countless people have tried, none have succeeded so far.

 

[CriticalThought]

Very well...


Same can be argued for the magician. He sawed his assistant in half and his test is for you to believe in his power.

There is a world of difference between the universe we see around us and the magician's little trick. The universe is living proof of God for those who are humble and don't shirk away from truth.

Why not explained the rules Himself? God is 'almighty', no?

Well, here is the dilemma. God wants to test you by sending His Prophets and Messengers (Peace be upon them). And you want something else. Now, whose Will is going to prevail here? Ask yourself, who are you to question why God has Chosen a particular way?

The problem with going thru the human agency is the greater risk of having one's message being tainted by the agent's biases which leads to misrepresentation and/or an incompetent agent which results in the incomplete or even false message. One would think that an 'almighty' God would have recognize that potential. And from the religious wars, looks like God have missed it.

And Allah informs us

17:95

Say, "If there were upon the earth angels walking securely, We would have sent down to them from the heaven an angel [as a] messenger."

The Children of Israel also made this demand, and were severely punished. Interestingly, Moses (Peace be upon him) also wanted to see Allah - not because he wouldn't believe otherwise, but he had this desire.

7:142 - 143

( 142 ) And We made an appointment with Moses for thirty nights and perfected them by [the addition of] ten; so the term of his Lord was completed as forty nights. And Moses said to his brother Aaron, "Take my place among my people, do right [by them], and do not follow the way of the corrupters."
( 143 ) And when Moses arrived at Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said, "My Lord, show me [Yourself] that I may look at You." [Allah] said, "You will not see Me, but look at the mountain; if it should remain in place, then you will see Me." But when his Lord appeared to the mountain, He rendered it level, and Moses fell unconscious. And when he awoke, he said, "Exalted are You! I have repented to You, and I am the first of the believers."

Tell me, have you ever questioned why fire burns? I mean, there could have been an alternate reality where fire would give us all the benefits we require, but it wouldn't burn us. But it does. That's how this world works. Similarly, Allah Has not Given us the capability to us to be able to behold His Visage with our human eyes. Amongst the Prophets and Messengers (Peace be upon them), only Moses would exalted in that he could communicate directly with Allah. Mere mortals don't have the capacity.

Even the act of Revelation is something which you and me could not bear. One of the companions of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) reports (comprehension follows) that the Prophet of Allah (Peace be upon him) was lying with his head on my thigh when Revelation started. All of a sudden his weight on my thigh increased to such a level, I felt as if my thigh would break.

It is reported that the act of Revelation was physically strenuous and highly exhausting upon the Prophet (Peace be upon him). Beads of sweat appeared upon his brow because of the exertion.

Once he was travelling on a camel when Revelation started. The camel sat down on the ground because of the sudden increase in weight.

There can be no accusation of a sub par agent. The Prophets and Messengers of Allah (Peace be upon them) are innocent. Whatever mistakes they made due to human weakness have been pardoned by Allah and repugned. I mean, it stands to reason that when God of the whole universe is sending an agent, He would also guarantee their credentials.

Religious wars are the errors of sinful humans.

2:213

( 213 ) Mankind was [of] one religion [before their deviation]; then Allah sent the prophets as bringers of good tidings and warners and sent down with them the Scripture in truth to judge between the people concerning that in which they differed. And none differed over the Scripture except those who were given it - after the clear proofs came to them - out of jealous animosity among themselves. And Allah guided those who believed to the truth concerning that over which they had differed, by His permission. And Allah guides whom He wills to a straight path.

If you have to resort to multiple human agents with multiple versions of your rules, and the results of each time are still the same, what does that say about you rather than of your agents?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Insanity
The definition of insanity, is, doing the exact same f**king thing over and over again, expecting shit to change.

Is God insane?

Over the ages, the mental and physical capabilities of humans have evolved. For example, the nation of 'Aad were so strong, they could literally uproot a tree with their bare hands. Obviously, the rules for them should be different.

All it takes is one person who returned from the next life, not the afterlife which is really death, for the rest of the world to believe, assuming there is a next life after this one.

Am not talking about the nonsense that we have today about psychics who 'channels' spirits or those who have 'near death' experiences.

Am saying that this person, who returned from the next life, must be verified as dead by authorities in this life. His/her body is proven buried or cremated. Then somehow, one day we see this person among us either in a new body or the old one reformed. We will even accept the returned person as in an amorphous state. But no matter which, as long as we can study this person under current scientific examinations, we will accept that he/she returned from the next life. What comes next is inevitable that this person will tell us which version of God is the true one.

Forget bringing back the dead, Allah says

15:14-15

( 14 ) And [even] if We opened to them a gate from the heaven and they continued therein to ascend,
( 15 ) They would say, "Our eyes have only been dazzled. Rather, we are a people affected by magic."

The sad truth is, there is no end to disbelief. And the even sadder reality is, if people continued to disbelieve after what you are asking actually happened, there would then arrive a grand punishment that would eliminate such disbelievers. Thousands of years of human history stands witness that fulfilling people's demands does not engender belief.

Which is why, I said at the beginning: the whole test is to believe in Allah without having seen Him directly. Similarly for Heaven and Hell, and life after death.

There is a narration from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that says (comprehension) "If I had not feared that you will stop burying your dead in graves, I would have supplicated to Allah to show you what happens in the grave".

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

There is a world of difference between the universe we see around us and the magician's little trick. The universe is living proof of God for those who are humble and don't shirk away from truth.



Well, here is the dilemma. God wants to test you by sending His Prophets and Messengers (Peace be upon them). And you want something else. Now, whose Will is going to prevail here? Ask yourself, who are you to question why God has Chosen a particular way?



And Allah informs us

17:95


The Children of Israel also made this demand, and were severely punished. Interestingly, Moses (Peace be upon him) also wanted to see Allah - not because he wouldn't believe otherwise, but he had this desire.

7:142 - 143


Tell me, have you ever questioned why fire burns? I mean, there could have been an alternate reality where fire would give us all the benefits we require, but it wouldn't burn us. But it does. That's how this world works. Similarly, Allah Has not Given us the capability to us to be able to behold His Visage with our human eyes. Amongst the Prophets and Messengers (Peace be upon them), only Moses would exalted in that he could communicate directly with Allah. Mere mortals don't have the capacity.

Even the act of Revelation is something which you and me could not bear. One of the companions of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) reports (comprehension follows) that the Prophet of Allah (Peace be upon him) was lying with his head on my thigh when Revelation started. All of a sudden his weight on my thigh increased to such a level, I felt as if my thigh would break.

It is reported that the act of Revelation was physically strenuous and highly exhausting upon the Prophet (Peace be upon him). Beads of sweat appeared upon his brow because of the exertion.

Once he was travelling on a camel when Revelation started. The camel sat down on the ground because of the sudden increase in weight.

There can be no accusation of a sub par agent. The Prophets and Messengers of Allah (Peace be upon them) are innocent. Whatever mistakes they made due to human weakness have been pardoned by Allah and repugned. I mean, it stands to reason that when God of the whole universe is sending an agent, He would also guarantee their credentials.

Religious wars are the errors of sinful humans.

2:213




Over the ages, the mental and physical capabilities of humans have evolved. For example, the nation of 'Aad were so strong, they could literally uproot a tree with their bare hands. Obviously, the rules for them should be different.



Forget bringing back the dead, Allah says

15:14-15


The sad truth is, there is no end to disbelief. And the even sadder reality is, if people continued to disbelieve after what you are asking actually happened, there would then arrive a grand punishment that would eliminate such disbelievers. Thousands of years of human history stands witness that fulfilling people's demands does not engender belief.

Which is why, I said at the beginning: the whole test is to believe in Allah without having seen Him directly. Similarly for Heaven and Hell, and life after death.

There is a narration from the Prophet (Peace be upon him) that says (comprehension) "If I had not feared that you will stop burying your dead in graves, I would have supplicated to Allah to show you what happens in the grave".

Here is the thing, there are thousands of Gods and religions in the world.

How do we know for sure that 1 of them is correct and the rest are not? What if you pick one, and it's the wrong one?

 

[gambit]

There is a world of difference between the universe we see around us and the magician's little trick. The universe is living proof of God for those who are humble and don't shirk away from truth.

The issue is belief and your willingness to extend it. True, the universe is much greater than a stage magic show, but how many 'miracles' have been performed by 'prophets' that were little more than stage magic to convince the audience that they are agents of God?

Well, here is the dilemma. God wants to test you by sending His Prophets and Messengers (Peace be upon them). And you want something else. Now, whose Will is going to prevail here? Ask yourself, who are you to question why God has Chosen a particular way?

Why a test? Do you test your children to get them to believe that you are their caretaker? Mothers cradles their babies body to body, how much more proof of being a parent than that?

Tell me, have you ever questioned why fire burns? I mean, there could have been an alternate reality where fire would give us all the benefits we require, but it wouldn't burn us. But it does. That's how this world works. Similarly, Allah Has not Given us the capability to us to be able to behold His Visage with our human eyes. Amongst the Prophets and Messengers (Peace be upon them), only Moses would exalted in that he could communicate directly with Allah. Mere mortals don't have the capacity.

What was Moses? A mutant? Sorry, but this argument is a cheap cop-out. You are basically making excuses for God, a contradiction to the declaration that we do not know God in the first place. You are making yourself a 'prophet' of God and to me, that make you no different than a stage show magician.

Religious wars are the errors of sinful humans.

From God using flawed humans as His agents in the first place. I have always said that furniture assembly instructions from IKEA are more clear than the Bible, or in your case, the Quran.

Thousands of years of human history stands witness that fulfilling people's demands does not engender belief.

Which is why, I said at the beginning: the whole test is to believe in Allah without having seen Him directly. Similarly for Heaven and Hell, and life after death.

Here -- the highlighted -- is where you are wrong.

Do you believe in electricity? The difference between electricity and miracles is that literally ANYONE can produce electricity.

https://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Potato-Battery

The true test for belief, as in acceptance, is not from wholesale acceptance but from allowing people to explore the basis of the belief ON THEIR OWN. This is why for many cultures, only the elites, usually the nobility and the priesthood, were allowed education. They do not want the hoi polloi -- regular folks like you and I -- from learning that what they know can be understood by anyone else. Today's high school education is yesterday's university. Right now, if I go back to the time of the pharaohs with a simple sliderule and keep its utility to myself, I would run Egypt.

Science is about open knowledge. Religion is about secrets.