The Worldwide Rise of Islamic Anti-Semitism

[Mercenary]

Well, Mercenary, this is the first time I've heard a "balanced" view like yours. I don't know if it's unique or not. I do know that one can't allow oneself to be convinced simply by the earnest speech of a con man. The most common charge against Finkelstein is that he engages in gross misrepresentation of the works of others. You might want to review your experience with Finkelstein and see if that fits the bill or not.

Well I have read Alan Dershowitz book, the case for Israel and Norman Finkelstein's rebuttal.

I tend to side with Finkelstein more than Dershowitz but that is just me.

Overall, Israel cannot continue on its current trajectory. When President Obama states that Israel should return to 1967 Borders with mututally agreed swaps, all of Israel and Israeli supporters went up in uproar.

See, Israel is committing suicide. Its continuing to build settlements on West Bank where the Palestinian population is growing faster than the Jewish one.

By 2025, Jews will be a minority in the territory they control. Then What?

Israel needs to withdraw from West Bank, dismantle the settlements, otherwise demographics will doom the only Jewish Majority state in the world much like what happened to Lebanon being founded as the only Christian majority state in Middle East but with muslim birthrates doomed into a civil war and with large numbers of Lebanese Christians fleeing for North America.

 

[KingMamba]

Sorry, it's PROVED unfeasible. Sticking to it in the face of facts is thus a form of denial.

I think you've been snowed by media coverage that purposely portrays Palestinians as peace-loving underdogs rather than subjects pushed by terror-loving leaders to become rabid Jew-killers. If the Palestinian Arabs gave up fighting there would be peace; if the Jews gave up fighting they would be dead.

It really is that simple and if you STILL think otherwise why don't you visit Israel yourself to see what goes on? Try especially to observe how the media behaves and see how it is a player in the conflict, not merely an observer.

I still think you are exaggerating but fine to each his own. As for visiting I might sometime in the near future and if it changes my perception of the ground realities you will be the first to know.

PS- You are still dodging the link.

 

[Solomon2]

PS- You did not comment on the link I provided. What do you have to say about Rabbis who reject the status of Israel based on religious merit. I would think they would be qualified to speak on such matters.

What link? I must have missed it. And yes, I'm familiar with the argument some Rabbis have against Zionism; they really object to it being secular in character rather than religious. I reject the position because I don't see backing for it in either the Torah or the Talmud. That doesn't mean these rabbis reject Israel as a state like other states - except for the Neutrei Keutra lot who are so outside the bounds - they advocate killing non-NK Jews - that most Jews and non-Jews reject the idea that the NKs are Jews.

 

[KingMamba]

What link? I must have missed it. And yes, I'm familiar with the argument some Rabbis have against Zionism; they really object to it being secular in character rather than religious. I reject the position because I don't see backing for it in either the Torah or the Talmud. That doesn't mean these rabbis reject Israel as a state like other states - except for the Neutrei Keutra lot who are so outside the bounds - they advocate killing non-NK Jews - that most Jews and non-Jews reject the idea that the NKs are Jews.

Well they say it is actually against the Torah or Talmud for the Jews to form their own state.

I would like you to provide link to both the Rabbis you speak of and the NK lot as you put it showing how they are so out of bound.

 

[Solomon2]

Israel needs to withdraw from West Bank, dismantle the settlements, otherwise demographics will doom the only Jewish Majority state in the world -

Indeed it is a great concern of Israel's leaders; however, the demographics are not what you portray. The Arab birthrate in the West Bank (not Gaza) is overstated and Israel's understated. Last I checked there was no demographic time bomb any more.

Well they say it is actually against the Torah or Talmud for the Jews to form their own state.

I would like you to provide link to both the Rabbis you speak of and the NK lot as you put it showing how they are so out of bound.

Ooh, that's asking a lot! Why don't you google around a bit and discover some answers for yourself?

 

[Developereo]

Here we go with the Zionist victimhood parade again...

Let's step back and review the facts. There is always some amount of hatred of "the other" in every group: Jews, Muslims, Christians and all societies contain a certain number of bigots. This is human nature and, historically, there was nothing too extraordinary about the Jewish-Muslim relationship in this regard: there were periods of cooperation and of tension.

Enter Zionism and the creation of Israel. The Zionists deliberately and methodically laid out a public relations strategy for Israel which was built around two core concepts: Support of the dominant Christian West by appeal to scripture (Jews' return to Zion), and the anti-Semitism sympathy card, built around the Holocaust but fleshed out with full historical victimhood.

Both of these strategies required shouting at the top of the voice "we are Jews and we deserve this land more than anyone else because we are Jews". The Zionists didn't say they were entitled to the land because they were white, or six foot two, or had high IQ -- they specifically made Jewishness the centerpiece of their claim for superior rights. The reactionary anti-Semitism was not only predictable, it was desirable, precisely to feed the victimhood side of the PR campaign.

Just as in the Holocaust some Jews worked with the Nazis, so the Zionists deliberately stoke anti-Semitism to keep the sympathy card alive. It is the one of the centerpieces of their core strategy.

 

[Juice]

And Muslims play their part to a T.

 

[KingMamba]

Indeed it is a great concern of Israel's leaders; however, the demographics are not what you portray. The Arab birthrate in the West Bank (not Gaza) is overstated and Israel's understated. Last I checked there was no demographic time bomb any more.

Ooh, that's asking a lot! Why don't you google around a bit and discover some answers for yourself?

Actually I took the liberty to but I don't see how their actions are any more radical than the actions of the Zionists. l do see that they have two splinter groups with the larger of the two being less radical. Which is why I thought you would like to point out specific accounts showing how out of bounds they are.

 

[Solomon2]

Ooh, that's asking a lot! Why don't you google around a bit and discover some answers for yourself?

Ah, how could I have missed that the NKs are to be rejected simply for the inhumanity of their position that some people must be slain for following religion differently than they! It's getting late and I'll have to call this a night.

 

[KingMamba]

Here we go with the Zionist victimhood parade again...

Let's step back and review the facts. There is always some amount of hatred of "the other" in every group: Jews, Muslims, Christians and all societies contain a certain number of bigots. This is human nature and, historically, there was nothing too extraordinary about the Jewish-Muslim relationship in this regard: there were periods of cooperation and of tension.

Enter Zionism and the creation of Israel. The Zionists deliberately and methodically laid out a public relations strategy for Israel which was built around two core concepts: Support of the dominant Christian West by appeal to scripture (Jews' return to Zion), and the anti-Semitism sympathy card, built around the Holocaust but fleshed out with full historical victimhood.

Both of these strategies required shouting at the top of the voice "we are Jews and we deserve this land more than anyone else because we are Jews". The Zionists didn't say they were entitled to the land because they were white, or six foot two, or had high IQ -- they specifically made Jewishness the centerpiece of their claim for superior rights. The reactionary anti-Semitism was not only predictable, it was desirable, precisely to feed the victimhood side of the PR campaign.

Just as in the Holocaust some Jews worked with the Nazis, so the Zionists deliberately stoke anti-Semitism to keep the sympathy card alive. It is the one of the centerpieces of their core strategy.

Wow I never thought of it like that but I agree with this point.

Ah, how could I have missed that the NKs are to be rejected simply for the inhumanity of their position that some people must be slain for following religion differently than they! It's getting late and I'll have to call this a night.

Likewise but still if you get the time you should provide one example of their claim because simply throwing an accusation out there is half-@ssed and you know it.

Another link since NK is "radical" http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/holocaust/gedalyaLiebermann.cfm

 

[Mercenary]

Here we go with the Zionist victimhood parade again...

Let's step back and review the facts. There is always some amount of hatred of "the other" in every group: Jews, Muslims, Christians and all societies contain a certain number of bigots. This is human nature and, historically, there was nothing too extraordinary about the Jewish-Muslim relationship in this regard: there were periods of cooperation and of tension.

Enter Zionism and the creation of Israel. The Zionists deliberately and methodically laid out a public relations strategy for Israel which was built around two core concepts: Support of the dominant Christian West by appeal to scripture (Jews' return to Zion), and the anti-Semitism sympathy card, built around the Holocaust but fleshed out with full historical victimhood.

Both of these strategies required shouting at the top of the voice "we are Jews and we deserve this land more than anyone else because we are Jews". The Zionists didn't say they were entitled to the land because they were white, or six foot two, or had high IQ -- they specifically made Jewishness the centerpiece of their claim for superior rights. The reactionary anti-Semitism was not only predictable, it was desirable, precisely to feed the victimhood side of the PR campaign.

Just as in the Holocaust some Jews worked with the Nazis, so the Zionists deliberately stoke anti-Semitism to keep the sympathy card alive. It is the one of the centerpieces of their core strategy.

Zionism started in 1888 when Jews were despised in the West and the Holocaust didn't happen until 1942-45. So what grand plans did the Zionists starting in 1888?

Jews were being persecuted in Eastern Europe because of the collapse of the Russian Empire. Jews emigrated in mass to USA but some also immigrated to Palestine and moved to areas they purchased from local Arabs. Tel Aviv was founded in 1909 was founded on a piece of land purchased by Arabs.

So there not this grand strategy by the Zionists.

And besides the West despised Israel because they believed it will ruin relations with Arabs who had oil and they believed that Soviet Union will have domination over middle eastern oil fields.

The American Administration that was pro-Israel began with the Clinton Administration.

1948 - 1952 - Truman only reluctantly supported Israel to be created in UN
1952 - 1960 - Eisenhower joined USSR in condemning Israel's invasion of Sinai
1960 - 1963 - Kennedy wanted investigation launched into Israeli Nuclear Weapons Program
1963 - 1968 - Johnson did not send any weapons to Israel during 6 Day War because Israel fired the opening shots.
1968 - 1974 - Nixon was a rapid anti-semite and only reluctantly decided to send arms to Israel in 1973 and only by that time Israel was beginning to win the war.
1974 - 1976 - Ford cut funding for Israel
1976 - 1980 - Carter forged peace between Israel and Egypt
1980 - 1988 - Reagan forced Israel to sell weapons to Iran to free its hostages
1988 - 1992 - Bush I forced Israel not to get involved in Gulf War and forced them to attend Madrid Peace Talks

Only starting in 1992, did Israel enjoy unanimous support from USA.



And what Jews worked with the Nazis during the Holocaust?

 

[Developereo]

Zionism started in 1888 when Jews were despised in the West and the Holocaust didn't happen until 1942-45. So what grand plans did the Zionists starting in 1888?

The whole rationale for Zionism is as a response to historical persecution and bulwark against future persecution. Victimhood forms the core of Zionist ideology. The appeal to Christian spiritual 'predictions' was just not strong enough to get the ball rolling. The Holocaust was the trigger that pushed the victimhood factor over the line and gave wider public legitimacy for supporting the creation of Israel.

So there not this grand strategy by the Zionists.

I would encourage you to learn more about the history of Zionism and of the rise of Israel. It was extremely well planned decades in advance and the two main concepts I noted have always formed the centerpiece of the campaign.

And besides the West despised Israel because they believed it will ruin relations with Arabs who had oil and they believed that Soviet Union will have domination over middle eastern oil fields.

The American Administration that was pro-Israel began with the Clinton Administration.

1948 - 1952 - Truman only reluctantly supported Israel to be created in UN
1952 - 1960 - Eisenhower joined USSR in condemning Israel's invasion of Sinai
1960 - 1963 - Kennedy wanted investigation launched into Israeli Nuclear Weapons Program
1963 - 1968 - Johnson did not send any weapons to Israel during 6 Day War because Israel fired the opening shots.
1968 - 1974 - Nixon was a rapid anti-semite and only reluctantly decided to send arms to Israel in 1973 and only by that time Israel was beginning to win the war.
1974 - 1976 - Ford cut funding for Israel
1976 - 1980 - Carter forged peace between Israel and Egypt
1980 - 1988 - Reagan forced Israel to sell weapons to Iran to free its hostages
1988 - 1992 - Bush I forced Israel not to get involved in Gulf War and forced them to attend Madrid Peace Talks

Only starting in 1992, did Israel enjoy unanimous support from USA.

The history of Zionism in Europe and the US goes back much longer. I don't have time to rehash the history yet again -- it has been done here often enough -- but a good starting point would be the BBC documentary "Promises and Betrayals".

And what Jews worked with the Nazis during the Holocaust?

You can start from google and work your way onwards.

 

[KingMamba]

Zionism started in 1888 when Jews were despised in the West and the Holocaust didn't happen until 1942-45. So what grand plans did the Zionists starting in 1888?

Jews were being persecuted in Eastern Europe because of the collapse of the Russian Empire. Jews emigrated in mass to USA but some also immigrated to Palestine and moved to areas they purchased from local Arabs. Tel Aviv was founded in 1909 was founded on a piece of land purchased by Arabs.

So there not this grand strategy by the Zionists.

And besides the West despised Israel because they believed it will ruin relations with Arabs who had oil and they believed that Soviet Union will have domination over middle eastern oil fields.

The American Administration that was pro-Israel began with the Clinton Administration.

1948 - 1952 - Truman only reluctantly supported Israel to be created in UN
1952 - 1960 - Eisenhower joined USSR in condemning Israel's invasion of Sinai
1960 - 1963 - Kennedy wanted investigation launched into Israeli Nuclear Weapons Program
1963 - 1968 - Johnson did not send any weapons to Israel during 6 Day War because Israel fired the opening shots.
1968 - 1974 - Nixon was a rapid anti-semite and only reluctantly decided to send arms to Israel in 1973 and only by that time Israel was beginning to win the war.
1974 - 1976 - Ford cut funding for Israel
1976 - 1980 - Carter forged peace between Israel and Egypt
1980 - 1988 - Reagan forced Israel to sell weapons to Iran to free its hostages
1988 - 1992 - Bush I forced Israel not to get involved in Gulf War and forced them to attend Madrid Peace Talks

Only starting in 1992, did Israel enjoy unanimous support from USA.



And what Jews worked with the Nazis during the Holocaust?

Check out the link I provided. The Role of Zionism in the Holocaust

Also unconditional support for Israel started in 1973 in the Yom Kippur War. You should read up on how close Israel was on nuking Cairo and Damascus and how that forced the USA to airlift them weapons and no they were not winning at the time. USA was essentially trying to prevent a Soviet response from any Nuclear attack on its Arab allies. Even though support was cut for 2 years following the seeds were planted during this time.

 

[Solomon2]

In Egypt, Anti-Semitism Is Back in Fashion
By Jeffrey Goldberg Aug 6, 2012 6:30 PM ET

A travel tip for the international executive class: If you find yourself doing business in Egypt and you feel the urge to insult your interlocutor, 1) try not to insult your interlocutor; and 2) if you must, cast aspersions on the chastity of the person’s mother or sister. This insult will be taken hard, but it may eventually be forgiven.
Whatever you do, don’t accuse the person of being Jewish. That may cause an irrevocable breach, and could even provoke violence.

Jeffrey Goldberg, a national correspondent for the Atlantic, is the author of "Prisoners: A Story of Friendship and Terror." He was formerly a Washington correspondent and a Middle East correspondent for the New Yorker.
Photographer: Evan Sung


Anti-Semitism, the socialism of fools, is becoming the opiate of the Egyptian masses. And not just the masses. Egypt has never been notably philo-Semitic (just ask Moses), but today it’s entirely acceptable among the educated and creative classes there to demonize Jews and voice the most despicable anti- Semitic conspiracy theories. Careerists know that even fleeting associations with Jews and Israelis could spell professional trouble.

The level of anti-Semitism in Egypt has consequences, of course, for Middle East peace and for the safety of Jews. But, importantly, it has consequences for the welfare of Egypt itself. The revolution that overthrew the country’s dictator, Hosni Mubarak, held great promise, but it also exposed the enormous challenges facing Egyptian politics and culture. And anti-Semitism, if nothing else, has always been a sign of a deeply damaged culture.

As Walter Russell Mead has written on his blog, countries “where vicious anti-Semitism is rife are almost always backward and poor.” They aren’t backward and poor because the Elders of Zion conspire against them. They’re backward and poor because, Mead argues, they lack the ability to “see the world clearly and discern cause and effect relations in complex social settings.” He calls anti-Semitism the “sociology of the befuddled.”

Pathological Entertainment

Egyptian television is filled with such sociology. One popular series depicts an Egyptian diplomat stationed in Tel Aviv who robs Israeli banks on the side. The show was promoted by a Middle East satellite channel, which claimed that it would “surprise the audience with the sweetest jokes about the cheap Jew.”

A television show called “Il Hukm Ba’d il Muzawla,” a kind of “Candid Camera” knockoff, provides further evidence that Judeophobia in Egypt has become pathological. The show lures celebrities into an interview under the pretense that it will air on a foreign television station, and then tries to discomfit them by claiming they’re actually being interviewed for an Israeli show.

Recently, the show targeted actor Ayman Kandeel. The episode didn’t proceed as smoothly as planned. According to a translation by the Middle East Media Research Institute, the interviewer, an Egyptian woman named Iman Mubarak, surprises Kandeel by admitting that he’s appearing on Israeli television, and not German, as he was promised. A producer named Amr Alaa appears on set and asks Kandeel if there’s a problem.

Kandeel responds, “May I ask who you are?” Alaa, who is Arab, answers, “I am an Israeli.” More words are exchanged, and then Alaa says: “This is my channel. I am never afraid. It is you who are afraid, and that is why you are carrying a gun.”

“I don’t have a gun,” Kandeel responds. “To use my gun against you, I need to feel that you are worth something. But let me tell you what I can do. You stand right here. Relax.”

Kandeel then attacks Alaa, slapping him and shoving him, throwing chairs and cursing. He wheels on Mubarak, slaps her -- knocking her against a wall -- and curses her. A staff member runs onto the set: “Ayman, please, it’s a prank. Shame on you for hitting a woman.”

Kandeel is given Mubarak’s identification card, to prove that she isn’t Israeli. Finally, he says, “She’s Egyptian?”

“You hit me so hard,” Mubarak says.

Kandeel: “It was just one slap.” The audience applauds. Then he makes her an offer: “After the show, come to my car with me. I’ll put some lotion on your back.”

‘Long Live Egypt’

The next guest, the actress Mayer al-Beblawi, unburdens herself of an anti-Semitic tirade before being told the show is an Israeli production. The Israelis, she begins, “are real liars. They keep whining all the time about the Holocaust, or whatever it’s called. With all the Palestinians that you have killed, you are still whining about the Holocaust and its lousy figures?” She goes on: “They are the slayers of the prophets, what else can we say about them.”

The host, Mubarak, then provokes her: “You’ve got it wrong. They are the Chosen People.” Al-Beblawi responds: “The Chosen People? Allah did not curse the worm and the moth as much as he cursed the Jews.”

Al-Beblawi didn’t resort to violence. But the next guest, Mahmoud Abd al-Ghaffar, did, screaming at Mubarak, “You are a Jew!” and then pulling Alaa by the hair. Mubarak shouts: “Mahmoud, this is a ‘Candid Camera’ show. We are all Egyptians. Long live Egypt!”

Al Ghaffar says, “You brought me someone who looks like a Jew,” and then hugs Alaa. He turns to Mubarak: “If you weren’t a girl, the moment you told me you were Jewish ... I hate the Jews to death.”

Mubarak then makes a statement that captures almost perfectly the moral perversion of the prank: “I’d like to tell you that I enjoyed today’s episode with Mahmoud. I didn’t know that there could be such patriotism, but it exists in every Egyptian who breathes the air of this country.”

In a column published last week, the Washington Post’s Colbert King correctly indicted the leadership of Iran as sponsors of “the most virulent form of state-sanctioned anti- Semitism since Nazi Germany.” It is true that the Iranian leadership is wildly anti-Semitic, but, on my visits to Iran, I’ve never personally felt the hatred of Jews on the popular level.

Not so in Egypt, where the virus has spread widely. As we just saw in the Sinai region, where militants killed 16 Egyptian soldiers and tried to storm across the Israeli border on Aug. 5, Egypt has serious problems, and they don’t have much to do with “cheap Jews.”

Any country in which anti-Semitism is considered a form of patriotism is in dire trouble.

(Jeffrey Goldberg is a Bloomberg View columnist and a national correspondent for the Atlantic. The opinions expressed are his own.)

To contact the writer of this article: Jeffrey Goldberg at goldberg.atlantic@gmail.com.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Most muslims unfortunately do hate Jews.

Thats primarly due to their upbringing when they are taught these ridicilous stereotypes of Jewish people.

I was lucky that my Grand father fought in World War II in North Africa. He was wounded there in Summer 1942 and taken captive by the Germans and spend 2.5 years in a German POW camp in Northern Italy. He saw the brutality of how Germans treated Jews and Soviet prisoners.

And also my dad visited the Soviet Union in the early 1980's and saw all the concentration camps, etc.

So I grew up in a household in which we did not tolerate racial hatred of anyone or stereotypes.

And I am all the better for it.

Hi, Thankyou You lie, There is no hate preach during upbringing, don't generalize, because almost every jewish child and adult reads, recites and learn parts of hate preaching Talmud that ridicules humanity chritians-muslims...

How do you Find the brutalities, genocide, crimes against humanity against Palestinians for the past 40+ Years the world largest open prison. 40+ Years can you imagine 40+ Years against 2.5 Years which one is brutal. Those brutalities of israel against Palestinians for the past 40+ Years; Yes Just like what your grand dad saw those Palestinians and Muslims see and take it too inside Palestine.

Do you know 90% israelis follow Talmud, that preach Hate.