The United States Faces Irreparable Damage in a Cold or Hot Conventional War with China and its Alli

[Cherub786]

The only "reconciliation" India will accept is absorbing Pakistan into Akhand Bharat, with Muslims existing forever as untermensch in Hindu-supremacist greater India.

Akhand Bharat is a Hindu internet fantasy and I certainly don't take it seriously, neither should you. Reconciliation with India means making the LOC the new permanent border, end of story. This is what India offered Pakistan many decades ago in the aftermath of 1971. The Kashmir valley will never be part of Pakistan, much less independent. We have to accept that and move on. Kashmiri people have to now see themselves as Indians and part of India. They need to integrate politically with the rest of India's Muslim population. Asaduddin Owaisi is a great Muslim leader who is fighting tooth and nail for Muslim rights. Kashmiris should forget about their useless parties and politicians like Mehbooba Mufti, Omar Abdullah, and the separatists too, and let AIMIM get established in Jammu & Kashmir. I simply have no interest in supporting Kashmiri nationalism. Kashmiris are Muslims, time to get with the program and identify as such, Owaisi is their natural leader.

 

[ZeEa5KPul]

Akhand Bharat is a Hindu internet fantasy and I certainly don't take it seriously, neither should you.

Fantasies have a way of becoming realities frighteningly quickly if conditions are right for them. If Pakistan does something as foolish as you counsel and helps the Quad defeat China, guess who's going to be next. Who would help Pakistan then if India decides it wants more than the LoC. The betrayers shall be betrayed in turn.

This is what India offered Pakistan many decades ago in the aftermath of 1971.

This isn't many decades ago. Do you think a triumphant India would settle for that?

Asaduddin Owaisi is a great Muslim leader who is fighting tooth and nail for Muslim rights.

But is he getting results? All I see is Modi riding roughshod over Indian Muslims.

 

[Cherub786]

But is he getting results? All I see is Modi riding roughshod over Indian Muslims.

He is definitely getting results in Telengana, his home state where there is a considerable AIMIM presence. The Muslims of India, if they want to survive and flourish, have to look to AIMIM as their new political leadership. Right now Hyderabad is the center of Muslims in India, it is the city where they are the most prosperous and flourishing thanks to Owaisi's leadership.
I see in Owaisi a reflection of our own Qaid-e-Azam. If only Pakistan had a leader like him, instead Pakistan is always stuck with stupid, clean shaven clowns as presidents and prime ministers, like this incompetent fool Imran Khan, and that bald donkey Nawaz.

 

[KAL-EL]

Why can't moderators participate in discussions? And I disagree with your flawed logic, how does being anti-China automatically make someone anti-Pakistan? I am strongly anti-China while being a Pakistani Muslim myself.

this ^^

 

[LeGenD]

If your opinion of the Quad and its cohesion is correct, then Pakistan's choice is already made. Suppose the US-India relationship really does develop into an alliance and America sells F-35s to India. Is there some law that states those F-35s can only threaten China or would Pakistan also feel concerned by such a development? If this does come to pass, where do you suppose Pakistan would get its own stealth fighters?

Pakistan - China relationship is to the benefit of both countries - this is not even a discussion at this point. China is a neighboring country and Pakistan has benefited from its help on many counts. China is also giving CPEC to Pakistan. So HOW can one expect Pakistan to betray China? Out of question. Chinese members should not have second thoughts about this matter. Take cues from developments on the ground. And not from emotions of any member.

While Pakistan and China can collectively corner and bully India in theory, India is a big country as well and it cannot be undone and/or destroyed as per our mutual wish here on PDF. WE will also have a QUAD problem to deal with in the near future - a problem to which there is no practical counter.

QUAD is slowly but surely becoming a serious thing. Indian Navy receive meaningful INTEL about movement of Chinese forces in the Arabian Sea already. And meetings between QUAD members are more frequent then before.

It is easy for USA to exploit rivalries between distant powers to its advantage - understand this. Its reach is GLOBAL and its armed forces are second-to-none.

Now there is Pakistan - USA angle to the game as well. As much as some members might want to talk against USA here on PDF - some understand the bigger picture. Pakistani economic realities are such that WE have little room to maneuver and CPEC is the only relief in sight but not sufficient in itself (Pakistani population is growing at a rapid pace as well). USA is largest EXPORT destination of Pakistan - a major contributor to Pakistani economy in this capacity.

While Pakistan will honor its friendship with China, antagonizing USA is not a realistic route either. Pakistan is already finding India a difficult neighbor, imagine enmity of USA in the mix. Pakistani economy will be SMOKED and a lot more would diminish for my country.

I am just being realistic. Understand this.

Best course for Pakistan is to be the VOICE of REASON and INTEGRATION in the world. The integration part include CPEC as well as any other form of integration.

 

[PakFactor]

Akhand Bharat is a Hindu internet fantasy and I certainly don't take it seriously, neither should you. Reconciliation with India means making the LOC the new permanent border, end of story. This is what India offered Pakistan many decades ago in the aftermath of 1971. The Kashmir valley will never be part of Pakistan, much less independent. We have to accept that and move on. Kashmiri people have to now see themselves as Indians and part of India. They need to integrate politically with the rest of India's Muslim population. Asaduddin Owaisi is a great Muslim leader who is fighting tooth and nail for Muslim rights. Kashmiris should forget about their useless parties and politicians like Mehbooba Mufti, Omar Abdullah, and the separatists too, and let AIMIM get established in Jammu & Kashmir. I simply have no interest in supporting Kashmiri nationalism. Kashmiris are Muslims, time to get with the program and identify as such, Owaisi is their natural leader.

Your way of thinking would get Indian Muslims killed along with Pakistani Muslims. Their is no peace to be made with Indians no matter how you look at it, that Aman Ki Asha nonsense is over and those who kept believing it got a slap last year to wake up from that fantasy. Owaisi is no leader and has no standing in politics at home, and he’s failed those he represents. Half the time he’s the butt of jokes by his compatriots.

 

[PakFactor]

He is definitely getting results in Telengana, his home state where there is a considerable AIMIM presence. The Muslims of India, if they want to survive and flourish, have to look to AIMIM as their new political leadership. Right now Hyderabad is the center of Muslims in India, it is the city where they are the most prosperous and flourishing thanks to Owaisi's leadership.
I see in Owaisi a reflection of our own Qaid-e-Azam. If only Pakistan had a leader like him, instead Pakistan is always stuck with stupid, clean shaven clowns as presidents and prime ministers, like this incompetent fool Imran Khan, and that bald donkey Nawaz.

Don’t compare that clown Owaisi to our M.A Jinnah (R.A). He wasn’t able to stop any lynching of his citizens at the hands on Hindus and cries at Lok Sabah, still trying to find answers why Muslims are hated. The difference with Jinnah he understood the Sanghi filth and separated us from them.

 

[Cherub786]

Your way of thinking would get Indian Muslims killed along with Pakistani Muslims. Their is no peace to be made with Indians no matter how you look at it, that Aman Ki Asha nonsense is over and those who kept believing it got a slap last year to wake up from that fantasy. Owaisi is no leader and has no standing in politics at home, and he’s failed those he represents. Half the time he’s the butt of jokes by his compatriots.

Wow, you're completely incorrect and misinformed as far as Owaisi is concerned. The man is a giant in Indian politics, a household name. He is frequently a guest on news channels, and his party is expanding quite rapidly. Consider their recent entry into Bihar for the state elections there. Indian Muslims from north to south, east to west all consider Owaisi their undisputed leader. Tell me an alternative Muslim leader to Owaisi? Even Badruddin Ajmal acknowledges the leadership of Owaisi.

 

[Cherub786]

Don’t compare that clown Owaisi to our M.A Jinnah (R.A). He wasn’t able to stop any lynching of his citizens at the hands on Hindus and cries at Lok Sabah, still trying to find answers why Muslims are hated. The difference with Jinnah he understood the Sanghi filth and separated us from them.

Owaisi couldn't stop some lynchings, but Qaid-e-Azam stopped the massacre of millions of Muslims in East Punjab, right?

 

[Figaro]

Fantasies have a way of becoming realities frighteningly quickly if conditions are right for them. If Pakistan does something as foolish as you counsel and helps the Quad defeat China, guess who's going to be next. Who would help Pakistan then if India decides it wants more than the LoC. The betrayers shall be betrayed in turn.

This isn't many decades ago. Do you think a triumphant India would settle for that?

But is he getting results? All I see is Modi riding roughshod over Indian Muslims.

The Quad is just a political smokescreen just like the FONAP patrols. How anti-China can you go when your entire economy hinges on Chinese trade? Of course I think FONAPs still should be done just as symbolism of US power but beyond that, there is nothing more to see. The Chinese have presented a fait accompli in the SCS and there's really nothing much anyone can do about it.

 

[LeGenD]

@Cherub786

You are new member here (Canadian Pakistani) so there are some things which you do not understand yet.

I can grant you the opportunity to have discussions with me in a separate channel if you agree. I can help you understand Pakistani perspective in a better way including what China has done for Pakistan (help and all). If you agree of-course.

There are also aspects of rules of PDF for which you need further clarity.

 

[PakFactor]

@Cherub786

You are new member here (Canadian Pakistani) so there are some things which you do not understand yet.

I can grant you the opportunity to have discussions with me in a separate channel if you agree. I can help you understand Pakistani perspective in a better way including what China has done for Pakistan (help and all). If you agree of-course.

There are also aspects of rules of PDF for which you need further clarity.

He needs a deep-deep learning of Pak-China relationship from the ground up and why the West isn’t in a position to replace China.

 

[LeGenD]

He needs a deep-deep learning of Pak-China relationship from the ground up and why the West isn’t in a position to replace China.

I hope he consider.

WE need balance in our perspectives, to see and understand things in a better way.

 

[Cherub786]

@Cherub786

You are new member here (Canadian Pakistani) so there are some things which you do not understand yet.

I can grant you the opportunity to have discussions with me in a separate channel if you agree. I can help you understand Pakistani perspective in a better way including what China has done for Pakistan (help and all). If you agree of-course.

There are also aspects of rules of PDF for which you need further clarity.

Okay, sure.

 

[PakFactor]

Owaisi couldn't stop some lynchings, but Qaid-e-Azam stopped the massacre of millions of Muslims in East Punjab, right?

Their are sacrifices every nation makes for the peace and security for the future of its citizens, it’s pointless pointing and saying the massacre happened due to him look at Gujarat their was no partition and Modi fried Muslims there. I’ve lost family members during partition and fighting wars and none have any regrets. My grandmother always said if she had more sons she would have sacrificed more for this soil we are on.

Tara Singh is the one who instigated Sikhs to start the massacres and was played by Nehru in the end. He wanted a Sikh state and was venomously against the idea of Pakistan, more so than the Hindus. Look at what happened to Sikhs in the end under Indra Gandhi they got a taste of their own medicine.