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The Un-Intended Eye Opener Of 27th Feb:---

Hi,

India may chose whatever words that they might---but when they cross the LOC or the border---with fighter aircraft and declared intentions---then that is an act of war---.

Sir, Pulwama happened on February 14th, and india tried playing its circus on February 26th ...... I know that you know india wasn't buying those 4 spike bombs and fighter jets to use on February 26th .... during these 12 or 13 days.

What did india achieve during that period? Built narrative for its cause and tried gaining maximum sympathies from others around the globe.

We already knew that india is planning a circus again, that's why our airforce was flying tirelessly for a week or so before February 27th.

What is wrong with so many of you pakistani kids---.

:o: ........... I am a civi who knows the wars cannot be fought and won alone during these days.

You have a position of strength---and yet you want to act from a positioin of failure---.

Yes we are enjoying the position of strength after disclosing a lot of our tactics to the enemy.

Who teaches you these thing---schools---colleges---parents---uncles---grand parents---where do you get to learn this thing.

I have been reading you on this forum ..... before that I was living with my DCV curse (or blessing may be).

What is yourt problem---? You claimed to be the SON OF WARRIORS who conquered the world of ISLAM---so what has happened---?

We didn't conquer the world of Islam for land ......... there were very clear motives and missions and none of them involved killing / harming common innocent people.

And before we started with that conquering thing ........ we did Sulah e Hudaibiya ..... we let their POWs go.... we gave back our own people who had fled and come to join us. The reason wasn't that we were cowards .... we didn't have the necessary means to make it more swift short lived and permanent.

The day Pakistan has means to start and end a conflict on its own terms ....... may be I would want them to change their rules of engagement. But before that let us focus on rehabilitation of a whole generation that has been raised during all those daily bomb blasts and power shortages.


Hain? :o: Chacha g what if those spikes actually made a hit on a civilian infrastructure and decimated it - - - - - - - - ?

Iam pretty sure the cap team also didn't had any idea about the intensity of damage on land until they parked in the hangers after letting the intruders go scot free.

It wasn't an ordinary voilation of airspace by any measure :confused:

Chanda ........... no matter how many conspiracy theories we create and rumors we generate. One thing remains February 26th was again a night of indian circus. Now we could have turned that circus into a lot of damage and instability in this region ........ or we could tell them for once and all to stop being jokers.

It remains a circus ........... else they won't be telling zillions of lies to defend it.

Spend your efforts on stopping this from becoming another indian proclaimed victory ....... instead questioning it. Tell your nephews and nieces how we with their limited resources answered aggression. While we are busy questioning it ...... bakths are busy making it look like an indian victory ......... and after 30 years I don't want any Pakistani kid to read those lies and think we were defeated.
 
I am going to limit the discussion to the OBL incident, because since then India has assumed and demanded that they should also be allowed to attack "terrorists hide outs " like the USA did with OBL. We can argue the merits or de-merits of their arguments, but that is beside the point.
The point is that many countries now think that Pakistan is a pushover and rightly so.
...

My objections regarding 26th Feb response are in this regards. We were lucky that Spice 2000 missed their targets. If they didn't!! What then!!
...

1) I don't understand why you keep returning to OBL raid. I said yes PAF was found lacking, BUT if anything the PAF response on Feb 27th has corrected any wrong impression India might have gotten after OBL raid. So what are you complaining about now?

2) You can call it luck, I call it time-pressure from approaching interceptors. You ask what if Spice-2000 had hit; then H2/H4s would have hit the Indian Military structures/buildings as well. This is how military retaliations are planned, you carry air-strikes, we carry air strikes, you fire missiles, we fire missiles. Yes this could have started a retaliation cycle back and forth, which may have led to nuclear war; but then that's something both countries should have thought about before initiating the hostilities.

3) If PAF response would not have hit Indian Military where it hurt, India would not be contemplating cruise missile strikes on Pakistani targets the same night. So this proves India got an appropriate response that hurt.

4) Beyond that I would suggest that you read the leaked Abbottabad Commission report rather then relying on media bites. You will get your answers.

5) Lastly, if you still not convinced we can agree to disagree, as this discussion isn't going anywhere.
 
Hope u can tell them the example of sala post attack after which pakistan stopped , american supplies going into afghanistan on which , halry clinton has to apologize to pakistani state ?
While I see no probelms looking at bilawal or other opposition leadership its thier right to say what they think best for them ?
If they say bad , they will get exposed and then ppls may not vote for them ?
And PTI should become mature as a political party , and stop just druming anti\crouption movement ?
Thts not thier job , its the job of LEAs and courts , PTIs job is to bring , economic reforms , and make a poor pakistanis life good ?
Instead of crying about old thugs ?
and remember one thing , even some of kiyanis actions were seen bad but by no means he was another of zardari or nawaz type person himself ?
He did some bad decisions which been used and tried to be blackmailed by some political and foreign thugs ?
who thought power just lies under the stick and cap of kiyani ?
Maybe kiyani was a bit greedy for power , but he lacked charcter and guts like musharf ?

There is a inner circle , of pakarmy , and not all the decsions can be taken by thier chiefs ?
And if someone tries that , he could meet the end of gen.zia ul haq even though he is the one who reconstructed pak army after 1971 loss ?
These all events were of past , and pakarmy has passed a lot of evolutions of different kinds , and right now there is a inner circle which keeps eye even on its chief and they chcek all the decsions taken by the chiefs , and thats the tool reconstructed by gen raheel and some other of his mates , cause pakistan cant afford to give the keys of its nucks to any single person no matter who he could be ?
But right now , govt has to bring economy bck , not just old slogans so , we can have more better quality of fighter jets which can defend us better then today , sometimes I think , sometimes we as pakistanis expect too much from our army ,which was tried to tied down by our enemies ?
Jst that feb 27 showdown , brought us the reality that if , we had a better economy and better budget, our airforce could be doing much more then of what thy did on feb27?
Hope u hve seen who stood by pakistan at tht time , it was just china but hiddenly and turkey ?
We wont be in good condition if we would have gone for bigger war ? Because thts what our enemies wanted , us to drag us into a long war ?
And it wasnt india , thy also been fooled by a common super enemy?
Thy tried to kill many birds with one stone , and that stone has hit thier own arse in the end ?lolzz
So stop worrying , we r good , but we need money and a good economy to protect ourselves thts more important and with asad umar our finanace minster Im lossing hopes


There r.many like him , he is just a face , and not everything happens as thy planned or wish for ?
Amount of refoms happened in last 6months is more than 10 years..every expert will tell you this..
But alot of work is needed...alot more
 
1) I don't understand why you keep returning to OBL raid. I said yes PAF was found lacking, BUT if anything the PAF response on Feb 27th has corrected any wrong impression India might have gotten after OBL raid. So what are you complaining about now?

2) You can call it luck, I call it time-pressure from approaching interceptors. You ask what if Spice-2000 had hit; then H2/H4s would have hit the Indian Military structures/buildings as well. This is how military retaliations are planned, you carry air-strikes, we carry air strikes, you fire missiles, we fire missiles. Yes this could have started a retaliation cycle back and forth, which may have led to nuclear war; but then that's something both countries should have thought about before initiating the hostilities.

3) If PAF response would not have hit Indian Military where it hurt, India would not be contemplating cruise missile strikes on Pakistani targets the same night. So this proves India got an appropriate response that hurt.

4) Beyond that I would suggest that you read the leaked Abbottabad Commission report rather then relying on media bites. You will get your answers.

5) Lastly, if you still not convinced we can agree to disagree, as this discussion isn't going anywhere.

1- I state OBL incident because it was not mere incompetence, it was treason. Do you understand the difference between the two!! When your own act against your country and help and support the enemies. Yanks were so unprofessional that they couldn't land the helicopter in the compound even though under no threats and full co-operation given to them by the PA. Look at their incompetency. And look at how Pakistani pride got hurt around the world for eternity. If you my friend cannot understand it, then I am talking to the wrong guys.

2- I am baffled from your approach. You think Pak launching few H2/H4 bombs and killing more Indians in response would be it!! Would that bring dead Pakistanis back to life!! Would that have covered up for the incompetence of PAF!! No, absolutely not. What it would have done is to start the war without shadow of a doubt.
Something you say PAF was trying to avoid by not shooting down Indians jets.

3- You basically accepting that response from Pak have brought the two countries close to the war. What was the problem and what would have been the consequences to shoot at the intruding jets!! When they have already declared war on you by bombing your country!! I am now coming to the conclusion that you are arguing for the sake of arguments.

4- Abbotabad commission report is pile of rubbish. What you want me to read!! Do I have to repeat that no one has answered the questions how 12 seals from the crashed helicopter boarded one remaining heli!! Nobody ever will.

What I have already said, Pakistanis are good at buring their heads in the sand. Commissions, JIT blah blah blah, tell me one thing ever done concrete in Pakistan as a result!!!
The politicians and the PA has kept people uneducated so they would tolerate and not questions.
Even the attack on Peshawar school, death of 80 children was tolerated like nothing happened. Who had been held responsible until now!! What actions taken against the responsible people!! Where they came from, who trained them, who financed them!! Any actions against those who committed such barbaric, terrorist act on Pakistani soil!!!
I wouldn't respond to your further replies, thank you for you efforts.

Hope u can tell them the example of sala post attack after which pakistan stopped , american supplies going into afghanistan on which , halry clinton has to apologize to pakistani state ?
While I see no probelms looking at bilawal or other opposition leadership its thier right to say what they think best for them ?
If they say bad , they will get exposed and then ppls may not vote for them ?
And PTI should become mature as a political party , and stop just druming anti\crouption movement ?
Thts not thier job , its the job of LEAs and courts , PTIs job is to bring , economic reforms , and make a poor pakistanis life good ?
Instead of crying about old thugs ?
and remember one thing , even some of kiyanis actions were seen bad but by no means he was another of zardari or nawaz type person himself ?
He did some bad decisions which been used and tried to be blackmailed by some political and foreign thugs ?
who thought power just lies under the stick and cap of kiyani ?
Maybe kiyani was a bit greedy for power , but he lacked charcter and guts like musharf ?
There is a inner circle , of pakarmy , and not all the decsions can be taken by thier chiefs ?
And if someone tries that , he could meet the end of gen.zia ul haq even though he is the one who reconstructed pak army after 1971 loss ?
These all events were of past , and pakarmy has passed a lot of evolutions of different kinds , and right now there is a inner circle which keeps eye even on its chief and they chcek all the decsions taken by the chiefs , and thats the tool reconstructed by gen raheel and some other of his mates , cause pakistan cant afford to give the keys of its nucks to any single person no matter who he could be ?
But right now , govt has to bring economy bck , not just old slogans so , we can have more better quality of fighter jets which can defend us better then today , sometimes I think , sometimes we as pakistanis expect too much from our army ,which was tried to tied down by our enemies ?
Jst that feb 27 showdown , brought us the reality that if , we had a better economy and better budget, our airforce could be doing much more then of what thy did on feb27?
Hope u hve seen who stood by pakistan at tht time , it was just china but hiddenly and turkey ?
We wont be in good condition if we would have gone for bigger war ? Because thts what our enemies wanted , us to drag us into a long war ?
And it wasnt india , thy also been fooled by a common super enemy?
Thy tried to kill many birds with one stone , and that stone has hit thier own arse in the end ?lolzz
So stop worrying , we r good , but we need money and a good economy to protect ourselves thts more important and with asad umar our finanace minster Im lossing hopes


There r.many like him , he is just a face , and not everything happens as thy planned or wish for ?

Thank you for the sermon my friend, I have taken notes. I will not respond to PTI parts, I am not their spokesperson. If you read my comments on another thread, I have already criticised Asad Umer, I think he is like Kiyani a complete disaster in the making for Pakistan. He is incompetent and a fool. He thinks by talking, by snipe remarks against others, juggat bazi etc, he wins.
I am worried he is running and would ruin Pakistani economy completely.
I can assure you I am with no Political party in Pakistan. I only love Pakistan and its people. Therefore, my comments are always without any slants. I only write what I think and what I feel is harmful or good for Pakistana and its people.
That's why I am against Kiyani. He has done far more harm to Pakistan rather than one or two bad decision. He has toed the policies for years, which had brought the destruction to Pakistan. Giving the NRO to the thugs was one of the biggest crime he has committed. Pakistan has paid the prize for it over 10 years of thieves rule and it would continue to pay the price for it for another decade without shadow of a doubt.

Kiyani as a matter of fact was a tool of the corrupt political thugs. His support for Butts is well known. He betrayed Musharraf to take over from him. He conspired with Nawaz Butt against the state and people of Pakistan. He was hands in gloves with another corrupt traitor EX CJ Iftikhar Chaudhry. List of his crimes against Pakistan is long very long. If what you say how Pakistani army is run, did they missed all his actions!! Or were they on board with him to take such actions!! and bear responsabilities for the destruction of Pakistan!!
Shahbaz Butt and Choi Nasar meeting him in the cover of darkness is no secret. This man has acted against the interests of Pakistan all his professional life, he should be charged for treason, without shadow of a doubt.
 
Its easier to talk than to implement.
Pakistan Forces have given best output from least input
against the choices they had.
Look at Defense budget of Pakistan not in TOP 20
& compare our adversaries then talk about perfection.

Incidents happened in History we cant Undo
we should focus on future with best possible results.
Geo-politics of region is not easy to be judged like one way traffic.
 
1- I state OBL incident because it was not mere incompetence, it was treason. Do you understand the difference between the two!! When your own act against your country and help and support the enemies. Yanks were so unprofessional that they couldn't land the helicopter in the compound even though under no threats and full co-operation given to them by the PA. Look at their incompetency. And look at how Pakistani pride got hurt around the world for eternity. If you my friend cannot understand it, then I am talking to the wrong guys.

2- I am baffled from your approach. You think Pak launching few H2/H4 bombs and killing more Indians in response would be it!! Would that bring dead Pakistanis back to life!! Would that have covered up for the incompetence of PAF!! No, absolutely not. What it would have done is to start the war without shadow of a doubt.
Something you say PAF was trying to avoid by not shooting down Indians jets.

3- You basically accepting that response from Pak have brought the two countries close to the war. What was the problem and what would have been the consequences to shoot at the intruding jets!! When they have already declared war on you by bombing your country!! I am now coming to the conclusion that you are arguing for the sake of arguments.

4- Abbotabad commission report is pile of rubbish. What you want me to read!! Do I have to repeat that no one has answered the questions how 12 seals from the crashed helicopter boarded one remaining heli!! Nobody ever will.

What I have already said, Pakistanis are good at buring their heads in the sand. Commissions, JIT blah blah blah, tell me one thing ever done concrete in Pakistan as a result!!!
The politicians and the PA has kept people uneducated so they would tolerate and not questions.
Even the attack on Peshawar school, death of 80 children was tolerated like nothing happened. Who had been held responsible until now!! What actions taken against the responsible people!! Where they came from, who trained them, who financed them!! Any actions against those who committed such barbaric, terrorist act on Pakistani soil!!!
I wouldn't respond to your further replies, thank you for you efforts.

As I said in my first reply you do not seem to understand air combat; the capabilities and limitations. Your understanding of air combat is that a small kid playing a video game in arcade mode. Hence you fail to realize the REAL-WORLD limitation, problems and capabilities. So with this childish understanding of air combat you have built expectations of PAF; which if not fulfilled compel you to bad-mouth PAF.

So why not you do this exercise:

- Pakistan Border with India is roughly 2900 Km.
- Assume initial detection range of 50 Km from border and speed of 0.8 Mach(1000 Kph)
- Assume BVR missiles in chase mode has effective range of roughly 20 Km.
- Assume PAF CAPs fly at least 30 Km inside their own territory for their own safety.

Now calculate and tell me the number of CAPs PAF needs to maintain around the clock to ensure that 1 of its CAPs is in range to shoot down any intruder.
 
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As I said in my first reply you do not seem to understand air combat; the capabilities and limitations. Your understanding of air combat is that a small kid playing a video game in arcade mode. Hence you fail to realize the REAL-WORLD limitation, problems and capabilities. So with this childish understanding of air combat you have built expectations of PAF; which if not fulfilled compel you to bad-mouth PAF.

So why not you do this exercise:

- Pakistan Border with India is roughly 2900 Km.
- Assume initial detection range of 50 Km from border and speed of 0.8 Mach(1000 Kph)
- Assume BVR missiles in chase mode has effective range of roughly 20 Km.
- Assume PAF CAPs fly at least 30 Km inside their own territory for their own safety.

Now calculate and tell me the number of CAPs PAF needs to maintain around the clock to ensure that 1 of its CAPs is in range to shoot down any intruder.

You keep repeating your nonsense without understanding what I have wrote. Adios mate.
 
Amount of refoms happened in last 6months is more than 10 years..every expert will tell you this..
But alot of work is needed...alot more
Its doesnt matters what a PTIs fan boy thinks , but sad reality is , PTI cant be able to make any laws and legeslations because its thin majority and its immature style of politics nothing has happened good for pak economy , all what this govt did is to put more taxes on the items for the daily use of poor pakistani , this govt has no vission about economy and thts why imran been asked to change the croupt finance minster asad umar who made millions of $ making or letting the price of usd just in a day which even imran got knowledge by watching tv ?
All the hard work done by imran on foreign affairs been used by some of its minsters to fill thier pockets like faysal wada ,Dawood razaq who has taken DAM project while remaining in power , imran.needs to kick out these incompetent and croupt theivs ,only then we can be able to get some most needed gadgets like SU35, or J31 to ensure if any situation like 27th feb comes back that time enemy wont be able to retrun to its bases

As I said in my first reply you do not seem to understand air combat; the capabilities and limitations. Your understanding of air combat is that a small kid playing a video game in arcade mode. Hence you fail to realize the REAL-WORLD limitation, problems and capabilities. So with this childish understanding of air combat you have built expectations of PAF; which if not fulfilled compel you to bad-mouth PAF.

So why not you do this exercise:

- Pakistan Border with India is roughly 2900 Km.
- Assume initial detection range of 50 Km from border and speed of 0.8 Mach(1000 Kph)
- Assume BVR missiles in chase mode has effective range of roughly 20 Km.
- Assume PAF CAPs fly at least 30 Km inside their own territory for their own safety.

Now calculate and tell me the number of CAPs PAF needs to maintain around the clock to ensure that 1 of its CAPs is in range to shoot down any intruder.
Stop assuming that what you think is correct and others dont know what u can imagine , your own asumptions are majorly wrong air combat , is not video game as what u can assume by playing a few weeks ?

1- I state OBL incident because it was not mere incompetence, it was treason. Do you understand the difference between the two!! When your own act against your country and help and support the enemies. Yanks were so unprofessional that they couldn't land the helicopter in the compound even though under no threats and full co-operation given to them by the PA. Look at their incompetency. And look at how Pakistani pride got hurt around the world for eternity. If you my friend cannot understand it, then I am talking to the wrong guys.

2- I am baffled from your approach. You think Pak launching few H2/H4 bombs and killing more Indians in response would be it!! Would that bring dead Pakistanis back to life!! Would that have covered up for the incompetence of PAF!! No, absolutely not. What it would have done is to start the war without shadow of a doubt.
Something you say PAF was trying to avoid by not shooting down Indians jets.

3- You basically accepting that response from Pak have brought the two countries close to the war. What was the problem and what would have been the consequences to shoot at the intruding jets!! When they have already declared war on you by bombing your country!! I am now coming to the conclusion that you are arguing for the sake of arguments.

4- Abbotabad commission report is pile of rubbish. What you want me to read!! Do I have to repeat that no one has answered the questions how 12 seals from the crashed helicopter boarded one remaining heli!! Nobody ever will.

What I have already said, Pakistanis are good at buring their heads in the sand. Commissions, JIT blah blah blah, tell me one thing ever done concrete in Pakistan as a result!!!
The politicians and the PA has kept people uneducated so they would tolerate and not questions.
Even the attack on Peshawar school, death of 80 children was tolerated like nothing happened. Who had been held responsible until now!! What actions taken against the responsible people!! Where they came from, who trained them, who financed them!! Any actions against those who committed such barbaric, terrorist act on Pakistani soil!!!
I wouldn't respond to your further replies, thank you for you efforts.



Thank you for the sermon my friend, I have taken notes. I will not respond to PTI parts, I am not their spokesperson. If you read my comments on another thread, I have already criticised Asad Umer, I think he is like Kiyani a complete disaster in the making for Pakistan. He is incompetent and a fool. He thinks by talking, by snipe remarks against others, juggat bazi etc, he wins.
I am worried he is running and would ruin Pakistani economy completely.
I can assure you I am with no Political party in Pakistan. I only love Pakistan and its people. Therefore, my comments are always without any slants. I only write what I think and what I feel is harmful or good for Pakistana and its people.
That's why I am against Kiyani. He has done far more harm to Pakistan rather than one or two bad decision. He has toed the policies for years, which had brought the destruction to Pakistan. Giving the NRO to the thugs was one of the biggest crime he has committed. Pakistan has paid the prize for it over 10 years of thieves rule and it would continue to pay the price for it for another decade without shadow of a doubt.

Kiyani as a matter of fact was a tool of the corrupt political thugs. His support for Butts is well known. He betrayed Musharraf to take over from him. He conspired with Nawaz Butt against the state and people of Pakistan. He was hands in gloves with another corrupt traitor EX CJ Iftikhar Chaudhry. List of his crimes against Pakistan is long very long. If what you say how Pakistani army is run, did they missed all his actions!! Or were they on board with him to take such actions!! and bear responsabilities for the destruction of Pakistan!!
Shahbaz Butt and Choi Nasar meeting him in the cover of darkness is no secret. This man has acted against the interests of Pakistan all his professional life, he should be charged for treason, without shadow of a doubt.
I only can assure u, that whatever kiyani did , was retracted at the same time just look at memo gate , do you think ,it happens becuse kiyani wished that ?
No he didnt , it was angles who retracted the whole plan by enemies so rest asured the system has inplaced sometimes it just take a while to know the enemy plans and untill getting whole information proccesed, while im jst putting a light , in which political conditions we facing a enemy ?
And its mean that , im against or pro any political party , for me pakistan frist , is the best political idealogy or scale from which I check others ?
Sermons are good if thy brings u a good way ?
So keep listening is good for you , cause that ill open a lot of understandings of the comming future ?lolzz
 
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The myth of the israeli / french / russian technology on one side---and on the other side---chinese technology with ruthless and brutally efficient Paf brains behind that technology in operation.

This is really impressive.

Imagine on 26 Feb if enemy attacks our airbases?? PAF was too late on 26th Feb, Even enemy announced they will take revengue of pulwama attack and it was sure they will do it from Kashmir side.
I believe there are serious holes in our defense system. Enemy will never announce or tell that they will attack
During Israel arab conflict, Israel sent their soldiers on holidays, just to make impression , clouds of war is over. So did surprise attack.
Considering Rafale, Induction of S400 system, what is our planning for next 5 years. ? I fear we don't have answer.
Today enemy is roaring due to our defensive strategy.
While I agree , next day response was extraordinary , but still we were not able to cross LOC as India did with 12 mig2000. Why? due to defensive strategy.
Current events leaving few question , Are we ready to Counter Surprise attack?

You have brutally punctured the wishful think of many.
 
Amount of refoms happened in last 6months is more than 10 years..every expert will tell you this..
But alot of work is needed...alot more

Enlighten us please, because i try to keep up with current affairs
I am not aware of any Law reforms by now.
I do support IK , Farogh Naseem on sleep mode.

Vote in the name of corruption will not milk further.
we need reforms. Which Bills are passed through Senate?
 
Stop assuming that what you think is correct and others dont know what u can imagine , your own asumptions are majorly wrong air combat , is not video game as what u can assume by playing a few weeks ?

I am not assuming anything. The poster I was replying to, in his previous post was constantly implying that the PAF is incompetent cause on night of Feb 26th it could not shoot down the IAF jets. And was constantly comparing it to OBL raid.

While I have been trying to impress upon him:

1) That its not easy to shoot down an intruder if intrusion lasts around a minute and intrusion is only few Km deep. The number of CAPs an air force would need to mount to "ensure that it can shoot down any such intruder" is resource prohibitive. This is unlike OBL raid.

2) That whatever action PAF took on the night seems to have foiled IAF attempt, since all 4 Spice-2000 missing their target can not be attributed to luck. More likely that IAF released payload in haste/early, so the bombs did not have enough flight time to reach their target.

3) Also pilots nor ground controller would immediately know that IAF dropped bomb or not. So firing at escaping aircraft(s) after they had returned would not have been an option.

4) Retaliatory action was probably the only feasible option and that PAF's retaliation more than corrected any wrong impression India might have gotten after Feb26 or OBL raid. So if anything he should be happy at PAF performance.
 
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Dushman na kry dost nay vo Kam kia hai :tsk:
Why do we consider any state our "friend"? I dont want to open up on a public forum but we should not expect ANYTHING from ANYONE. Period. If someone does something good for you, be thankful, and if you can help anyone do so without thinking for a second they will help you in return. Walk with your own feet, fly with your own wings and expand the horizons of your country with your own strength and vision. Be good to those who are nice to you but dont trust anyone as far as you can throw a stone. This is a Golden rule in life
 
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From the start until now I had been worried about this part. If you see my comments history, I was fearful our Army is going to show restrain in hitting the enemy. Big mistake. We should have caused maximum damage when we had a chance. If 5/10 fighters of India were downed , the story would have been completely different.
I have commented multiple times that India's losses are far more. I know they should have been, when you get air superiority and control of the theater you do maximum damage to the enemy, both in the air and on the ground.
Pakistanis have made a huge blunder, which they are going to pay in very near future, mark my words. I will reproduce this and my earlier posts as evidence.
Look what the Americans did in Iraq when they had air superiority, the lay the whole Iraq force to waste. We had the opportunity on 27th to kill thousands of Indians, we should have done it.
Now India is going to retaliate with full force, we may not be lucky this time. Don't get me wrong I hope we are, but still a grave error on PA.
kaka.
That would have been an act of war. we were not at war and wanted to make sure they got the message while not giving them an excuse to start more aggressive maneouvres. The reason we did not hit those fighters and also that sub was that the message had been conveyed and the planes were already on the Indain side. So again hitting them would have been an agressive act and you would have lost your moral ascendency.
I dont think you want to bring in what USA did to Iraq int othis scenario. This was a classic case of just doing enough to pass a message on without having taken on a full blown response. If you look at it, even now what has the IAF got that they want to respond to. Their planes were in Azad Kashmir when shot at which is in line with international norms. So they dont have moral ascendency.
A
 
One thing every one over looks is that IAF brought a heavy continget on 12 to 18 mirage 2000 planes and manages to drop 4 bombs....


Why is that??? It cant be that one was bomber and 17 were providing air cover ..

Basically they failed.... And failed drastically ..

And why is that. ..

Thats because of rushing defenders forced them to flee...

Now combine that with 27th.... And u can get the picture....


This is hammmering of epic proportions seldom seen in warfare between two near par powers
 
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