What's new

The Un-Intended Eye Opener Of 27th Feb:---

@Khafee kindly check and verify this too(u know so much fakes on twitter) regarding last conversation of PAF
Gen.Chuck Yeager - don't know about this tweet, but he is on record for having commended PAF. He is not the only one, over time a lot of respectable people have echoed the same.

There is a very solid reason why our first 4 Air Chiefs were ex-PAF.
 
Last edited:
We both trying to do things by memory actually don't have time to research and make proper threads :) hope some young fellow do it on PDF btw Happy Pakistan Day :cheers:
Gen.Chuck Yeager - don;t know about this tweet, but he is on record for having commended PAF. He is not the only one, over time a lot of respectable people have echoed the same.

There is a very solid reason why our first 4 Air Chiefs were ex-PAF.
 
To understand that the word "why" you must understand what happened on 27th, Feb 2019. And also, if you can't believe the officials then I have no intention to convince people otherwise. How could you believe a farcical story that IAF "Bombed" or even stayed that longer which may be called some muscle show? Read about RoE and don't take some sabre rattling as credible enough.

When I see many people as such not leading the nation; I am more thankful to Allah. IAF violated airspace and PAF did the right thing on that night. It is indeed an irony to see that where Pakistanis are proud of our retaliation few people are still stuck with Indian propaganda of that night. However, I don't mind such philosophy from people asking these questions because, there are very less that can understand the tactics & strategy or at-least considers every strategic understanding.
Does this reset the RoE around the LoC?
 
I dont know how many nautical miles they came and minutes, but they used SOW weapons and PAF hasn't much reaction time. Waking up PM is SOP during these situations.

Hi,

That procedure should have been changed with the invent of modern standoff weapons---.

Pre planned engagement procedures should have been in place---.

That mentality of waking up is obsolete---.

My friend, the enemy is already aware which system was used to shoot down their Jet/Jets. Abhinandan is aware how he was shot down and if another Jet was shot down then that pilot also know how he was shot down. Besides, ground based radars and AEW systems of both countries were airborne at that time and they would have enough intel on all platforms being used.

The only ones who do not know are the ones who matter, who are bickering on forums and other e-platforms on which country came up on top in the encounter. Besides, don't you have any idea what it would do to our ego, our morale and our unity if it is factually disclosed that Thunders downed not only a Bison but also an MKI and that too using merely Chinese avionics, firecontrol radars, ew, missiles etc.

Hi,

After what I write and have been teaching in this board for the last 14 years---do you really think that I would not know that---.
 
We did not give chase that night since for all we knew there might have been a dozen MKI’s waiting below RADAR coverage for an ambush.

I mean, the next day there was Thunders waiting for Abhinandran.

Why are people still harping about it.
 
Much is Reset because, war time strategy is different than peace times.
I understand that but given that the lines were blurred, I hope that we don't get to hear those reported LoC violations. Atlantique incident comes to mind.
 
@MastanKhan I am sure you realize that PM was awaken to inform him of the incident, not to ask him whether PAF should intercept the intruders or not. Would you have preferred the PM to be kept sleeping the whole night without appraising him of the situation? what if the first intrusion had turned in to a full blown war in the next hour?

Being analytical and bringing the new POV for discussion does not mean one has to be negatively critical all the time.



Hi,

That procedure should have been changed with the invent of modern standoff weapons---.

Pre planned engagement procedures should have been in place---.

That mentality of waking up is obsolete---.



Hi,

After what I write and have been teaching in this board for the last 14 years---do you really think that I would not know that---.
 
Afghan game respected Sir is way older than current crisis. I predicted what would happen to India few years back in one of my post on Siasat.Pk.
Everything has happened almost as I predicted. It was easy to see, if you have foresight and understand a little bit of history.


Are you sharing an information!! IF Israeli is given to Saudis then it is a very interesting development. Did Saudis requested it!!

I agree on India's humiliation part, because of their lies they have exposed themselves further. They think the world is naive like India voters that they would buy crap from Modi. Every excuse they have used until now to cover up for their failures proven to be a fig leaf.


Yeah, Trump's remarks that USA have good relations with Pakistan after Pompeo's interview is a big slap at his secretary of state by Donald Trump. Do you think they are playing the oldest game in Politics, "The Good Cop and the Bad Cop"!!!!


You mean from the spanking on 27th Feb!!


I am certain that PA has plenty of video evidence to embarrass Indians further without shadow of a doubt. If one check my posts in recent days, I have constantly maintained that India suffered far more losses on 27th than what had been revealed until now. I am certain of that because of Modi's dejected comments regarding Rafale and his face expressions. He looked like a beaten man.
Indians have made their case and damage their status as a nation further by indulging in lies, which they ought to have known would be exposed. In today's day and age, you cannot get away with BS. That's what Indians do, BS most of the time.



I feel sorry for Abhinandan as well, poor soul, he has kept his promise that he would say the same when he is back in India. He should have known better that in India truth is a rare commodity.
By the way, can you reveal on what rank you retired!!


I have repeatedly said I don't have any insiders. It had been reveal on this forum. You will find it if you go through the posts.
I dont need to reveal anything maself cause im still a over seas contractor with some very important agencies in pakistan , hope u can understand not everything can buyed from countries ?
It brings ppls like me , bad boys , bad ppls , doing bad things , smugling and some other stuff , now what I could have posted , I hve already done tht , I cant go further then that , what u.think , why saudis were dancing around us???
There is more then that but its not our concern , but ISI has all the interviews video tapped of that israeli pilot and abhinanadan togather thats the only.thing I can tell you., no matters how old afghanistan is as conflict but thats the only place where americans can sit and watch over on everyone ?
But thts what no one likes ?
American military establishment and the white house has locked thier horns a long time back and donald trump thinks tht since , vietnam these genrals and CIA were making a lot of money but bringing america into more troubling waters and I think he is right , and u.can see.how many.of thesr genrals and sectries he had fired untill his tenure???
 
@MastanKhan I am sure you realize that PM was awaken to inform him of the incident, not to ask him whether PAF should intercept the intruders or not. Would you have preferred the PM to be kept sleeping the whole night without appraising him of the situation? what if the first intrusion had turned in to a full blown war in the next hour?

Being analytical and bringing the new POV for discussion does not mean one has to be negatively critical all the time.
All I can say , destruction brings construction thats what Mastan khan is up too , and thts his right, sure if we critique our abilities , it brings a discussion which brings more ideas , and if u think our genrals take it to.thier chin , no thy r much more stronger they read it and laugh , but then discus it later as a war scenario, in.war games , there is a dedicated deprt which keeps watching the internet and specially defence.pk kind of pakistani sites
 
@MastanKhan I am sure you realize that PM was awaken to inform him of the incident, not to ask him whether PAF should intercept the intruders or not. Would you have preferred the PM to be kept sleeping the whole night without appraising him of the situation? what if the first intrusion had turned in to a full blown war in the next hour?

Being analytical and bringing the new POV for discussion does not mean one has to be negatively critical all the time.

Hi,

Could you guys stop giving excuses for incompetence---.

If the Pak military had a plan---there would have been some aircraft shot down---.

Read / Hear the statements from ISPR---. They clearly indicated about the attempted incursion---that was intercepted and the aircraft turned away---.

He was talking about generals talking about taking immediate action---which meant---they had fckd up as usual and nothing was planned ahead of time---.
 
I dont need to reveal anything maself cause im still a over seas contractor with some very important agencies in pakistan , hope u can understand not everything can buyed from countries ?
It brings ppls like me , bad boys , bad ppls , doing bad things , smugling and some other stuff , now what I could have posted , I hve already done tht , I cant go further then that , what u.think , why saudis were dancing around us???
They don't brag.

Hi,

Could you guys stop giving excuses for incompetence---.

If the Pak military had a plan---there would have been some aircraft shot down---.

Read / Hear the statements from ISPR---. They clearly indicated about the attempted incursion---that was intercepted and the aircraft turned away---.

He was talking about generals talking about taking immediate action---which meant---they had fckd up as usual and nothing was planned ahead of time---.
Well MK peoples here are thinking that you are saying that when IAF Jets were retreating,we should have engaged them but what i understand you want to say that,the moment they crossed,they should have been locked and fired.

Am i right?
 
Ui8e72E.jpg
 
Thank you for the post Taha. I am thanking you even though I find your post highly insulting.

1- I from the start have maintained as a honest person unlike many on this forum, I never claimed I have inside knowledge.

2- If you read the post I responded, it contains the paragraphs that the higher ranks with in PA/PAF decided not to shoot down IAF jets. I wrote in response rather than assumptions as you write.

3- If you read my posts, I have always maintained what officially revealed by DG ISPR that IAF jets intruded 4/5 kilometers in to Pakistan Airspace. You have extended it to 10 Kilometers, but it doesn't matter.

4- I have lived all my life in the West, I think I have lot of knowledge, but I still thank you for the insulting comments that I don't understand Mach speed etc. Let me tell you I understand air combats very well. Like I said I responded to what was written in the post.

5- You and I both know the interception in Air Defense comes later, first is detection through radars etc. That is done well before any jets becomes threat to Pakistani air space or to Pakistani installations. What happened to the Air Defenses in Muzaffarabad area!!

6- I know there were sorties of IAF further down south up to Gurjanwala, if my memory serves me right. Does that provides excuse of intrusion!! How we didn't have good air defenses in Muzafarabad air pocket, considering it is the Capital of AJK!!

7- I purposefully mentioned OBL raids and lollipop given to the Pakistanis at the time by PA/PAF. That incident would always be in the history to give us shame, who brought us that shame!!

Lets look at that incident. The excuse was made that Black Hawks were stealth, therefore they were not detected by radars and air defenses. When you asked what about 2 heavy Chinooks landed at Kala Dacca, were they also stealth!! no answer coming. Chinooks were at Kala Dacca for 45 minutes with their engines running, making huge noise. All the surrounding villages could hear them, some could see them too. But our PA wasn't aware of them!!

Black Hawks maximum speed is 357 km/h, Chinook have 315 km/h. The distance between Bagram and Abbottabad is 372 km. It took both sets of helicopters well over an 1 hr to reach Abbottabad. We were told the copters used mountains to avoid detection by radar, in that case it would have even taken longer lets say 1:15 minutes. Same time to fly back. Add to that 45 minutes operation time, You telling me that for almost 3 hours PAF was blind!!

Thus, my response after it was claimed that IAF was not engaged because of wider implications. As a matter of fact we have already set precedence that we are an open game for anyone, now even for India if we fear for the consequences. That's why I call it cowardice.
Happy now!!!

Let me also assure you I am a patriotic person. I am no Bilawal or Nawaz. But with the same token I have got a brain and free thinking at it.

1) Firstly I had no intention to insult any one. So if you felt that way, I apologize.

>> You and I both know the interception in Air Defense comes later, first is detection through radars etc. That is done well before any jets becomes threat to Pakistani air space or to Pakistani installations. What happened to the Air Defenses in Muzaffarabad area!!

2) Recall that IAF was flying CAPs close to border for few days before the Feb 26. This increased air activity in my opinion was being done to provide cover for what was to come. In routine any unusual sized formation or increased air activity may raise suspicion, but in such heightened air activity such formation would not raise alarm unless it approaches border.

3) Kashmir is mountainous terrain, and terrain provides a good cover for any intruder.

> When you asked what about 2 heavy Chinooks landed at Kala Dacca, were they also stealth!! no answer coming.

> That incident would always be in the history to give us shame, who brought us that shame!!

4) Yes, I agree. Yes PAF was found lacking, but it does not mean we keep ridiculing them for all the years to come. Shit happens at times. Pearl Harbor happened to US.

5) I have skimmed relevant parts of Abbottabad Commision, if my memory serves me right these were main takeaways:

i) PAFs threat assessment did not perceive a threat from western border. (A faulty analysis but we are all intelligent in hindsight)
ii) Due to this threat assessment PAF's had not deployed Low Level Radars on western border in full numbers as would be required to provide reasonable coverage. This was unlike eastern border. American's knew about this and exploited these gaps in Low Level Radar coverage.
iii) Due to above threat assessment, Mobile Observer Units, were also not deployed on western border. MOU although is an old but still effective way to provide air intrusion warning.
iv) PAF conceded that even if it wanted to it did not have the required number of Low Level Radars to provide effective coverage to both fronts simultaneously. Pakistan's mountainous terrain complicates this problem. (My Opinion: Pakistan's Low Level Radars are quite old, and at least American may have been able to jam them very easily anyway.)

Anyways, if you opinion was that OBL raid gave the impression that anyone can come and bomb us, then recent PAF reaction more than corrected this impression specially to our neighbors in the east. That irrespective of what and why USA(super power) was able to pull off once; does not mean that you will be allowed to do that. So you should be happy that PAF corrected any incorrect impression Indian may have gotten from OBL raid.
 

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom