The UK's EU referendum: All you need to know

[mike2000 is back]

And France has always been synonymous of beauty, high culture, advanced technology and refinement in Russia. Our countries were allies in both world wars, and France was friendly to the people of Russia even during the Soviet era.

You forgot we were your main ally during WWII as we(along with the U.S)provided you with the most aidagainst Nazi Germany, be it technologically, militarily and materially.etc The soviet Union allied with its 2 main rivals as it had no choice even though Soviet leaders had long called the " imperialist camp" Britain and the United States.

So there is no such thing as hating or russophobe or whatever, its and has always been about INTERESTS. If our interests converge then we will be best buddies, if not then expect it to be hostile/rivalry. Geo politics has never been about how countries citizens view each other. Its about interests. Period.

For example there are western countries whose citizens view the U.S less favourably than people in China do, but are China and the U.S allies ? Lol similarly some of you may boast your love for Russia but the French government might not share your love , if not why they refused to sell the mistral to france and agreed to sanctions against Russia while also deploying fighter jets to baltic countries under NATO ? LOL
So learn to different people from government and interests. Two totally different things.

From what I can see there are 4 countries that actually hate Russia with passion - Baltic states and Poland, probably can put Romania here as well, bcs of Moldova.
But since Ukraine crisis the relations between Russia and Europe get really bad.Imo if Sarkozy is elected president, our relations will get better, not just Russo-French but with all EU as well.Tbh I really like his way of thinking about what happened in last 2 years.

Relations with the E.U were fairly good until russia intervened first in georgia then in Ukraine and it will keep trying to push further. Cant blame them thpugh, as long as its serves rheir interests who cares.....hmmmm....well apart from us since we also have interests where moscows does.

 

[Solomon2]

 

[waz]

Now you are simply lying through your teeth. numerous smileys? I wrote 4 posts addressing you and used a grand total of ONE smiley, as many as you did in your replies. So stop being silly. You seem to be pressed for no apparent reason. I am an outside observer. The whole event has been fascinating to watch but I am not deeply concerned either way. I am neither rejoicing nor regretting anything, it does not affect me. But why do you care anyway? You seem happy enough that your side won. Or do you get pissy when someone points out any potential fallout like I did? I do think that Scotland's independence is a real possibility now. It appears you don't agree with me, so good for you. Let's see how things unfold in the future. Also I am an Indian citizen with no future plans to change it.

I'm not lying through my teeth, you need to get a pair of glasses. You have put up smilies in your posts. Now tell me, if you're having a serious conversation with someone, do you pull stupid faces? You didn't just put up one smiley up, for your own reference here are your previous posts.

@waz Nicola Sturgeon is already highlighting the fact that Scotland has voted to remain in the EU, despite an overall loss. Watch out.

https://twitter.com/x/status/746185725356343298

Just as I predicted http://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-scottish-independence-referendum-is-certain

It only took a few hours.

They will first assess the public opinion now, if there is still a positive sentiment for independence, I am 100% sure that they will call for another independence referendum within a couple of years again and I would be shocked if they don't get more than 45% votes this time. Those who voted yes last time would vote yes again but there will be a significant swing from the no side following this development. Last time a lot of Scots voted no in order to stay in the EU.

Yes I can tell from the whole tone of your posts that you are not rejoicing....But anyway I'll take your word for it from now on. I only got pissed at you when you started using icons and then got annoyed when I rightly called you out on it.

Back on topic, the Scots may try for another or may not.
There seems to be support for it now;

http://www.scotsman.com/news/poll-puts-support-for-scottish-independence-at-59-1-4163338

But, it is early days and emotions are running wild. But then again similar polls had the nationalists in the lead until ballot day and then they lost by a wide margin. The economic outlook in Scotland is also far, far worse now.

 

[jaunty]

I'm not lying through my teeth, you need to get a pair of glasses. You have put up smilies in your posts. Now tell me, if you're having a serious conversation with someone, do you pull stupid faces? You didn't just put up one smiley up, for your own reference here are your previous posts.

OK you caught me, I used 2, not 1. Still numerous smileys as you called it?

Also, can you confirm that you don't use smileys in serious discussions? What is it then? Hypocrisy much?

Thank you friend. It has been heartwarming seeing the various messages and reassurances from our closest ally the US.



Yes we have seen how socialist economies are doing around the world, look at Venezuela....We don't need to watch out, the Scots, bar the nationalists are the only ones asking for a referendum. We'll come to that bridge when we need to.
You should focus on India. We don't need your "concerns".

Yes I can tell from the whole tone of your posts that you are not rejoicing....But anyway I'll take your word for it from now on. I only got pissed at you when you started using icons and then got annoyed when I rightly called you out on it.

Anyoe with an IQ of over 60 can tell that the smiley was used because my prediction came true within a couple of hours which even I wasn't expecting. You got it completely wrong.

Back on topic, the Scots may try for another or may not.
There seems to be support for it now;

http://www.scotsman.com/news/poll-puts-support-for-scottish-independence-at-59-1-4163338

But, it is early days and emotions are running wild. But then again similar polls had the nationalists in the lead until ballot day and then they lost by a wide margin. The economic outlook in Scotland is also far, far worse now.

That is what I asked you initially (the possibility of another referendum) but you completely dismissed the idea by saying the Scots would look at Europe and run a mile. In hindsight, it wasn't such a silly question, was it?

 

[waz]

OK you caught me, I used 2, not 1. Still numerous smileys as you called it?

Also, can you confirm that you don't use smileys in serious discussions? What is it then? Hypocrisy much?

I admit not numerous, but more than the one you said. I don't use smilies in a serious discussion, it's detracting and makes you look daft. Did you see me using one in this thread, or replying to you?

Anyoe with an IQ of over 60 can tell that the smiley was used because my prediction came true within a couple of hours which even I wasn't expecting. You got it completely wrong.

It's not a matter of IQ, it's a matter of pecerptions and you were using them mockingly. I didn't get it wrong. If you still insist, then let's agree to disagree.

That is what I asked you initially (the possibility of another referendum) but you completely dismissed the idea by saying the Scots would look at Europe and run a mile. In hindsight, it wasn't such a silly question, was it?

If you had asked this without all the above, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.

By the way another poll had support for independence at 52% which is poor considering the "anger" at the moment.

The reasons I highlighted about the Scots could run a mile are laid out well, from this piece in the NewStatesmen.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politic...nce-will-be-even-harder-it-may-be-only-choice

 

[maximuswarrior]

British far right is in a fix at the moment. They want the best of both worlds. Exit the EU, but still enjoy the benefits of free trade etc. It doesn't work like that. You are either part of the European Union and enjoy the benefits or exit and become independent and pay your dues upfront. There are no free lunches.

Nigel Farage has been a fraud. He lied to the British people and cannot fulfil half of his promises. Economically and politically Britain will never be the same. Nigel can't even control immigration and he has already flip flopped. The entire writing is on the wall.

Britain to be EU's 'best friend' after tariff-free trade deal

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-farage-tarrifs-idUKKCN0ZE10T

LOL

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

British far right is in a fix at the moment. They want the best of both worlds. Exit the EU, but still enjoy the benefits of free trade etc. It doesn't work like that. You are either part of the European Union and enjoy the benefits or exit and become independent and pay your dues upfront. There are no free lunches.

Nigel Farage has been a fraud. He lied to the British people and cannot fulfil half of his promises. Economically and politically Britain will never be the same. Nigel can't even control immigration and he has already flip flopped. The entire writing is on the wall.

Britain to be EU's 'best friend' after tariff-free trade deal

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-farage-tarrifs-idUKKCN0ZE10T

LOL

EU members are in denial. The EU has not been a significant benefit to the UK:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Intra-EU_trade_in_goods_-_recent_trends

Table 1: Exports of goods to other Member State, 2002 and 2013
(EUR 1 000 million) - Source: Eurostat (TET00039)

Look at that and ponder: absolutely no growth in exports of British goods to the EU over a ten year period. Meanwhile, the UK has been soaking up other EU member states' exports:

Figure 4: Intra-EU trade in goods balance by Member State, 2013
(EUR 1 000 million)- Source: Eurostat (TET00039)

And the UK's role as consumer of last resort for the EU has grown ever larger:

Table 2: Trade in goods balance with other Member State, 2002 and 2013
(EUR 1 000 million) - Source: Eurostat (TET00039)

The UK trades more outside the EU than it does inside the EU:

Figure 5: Intra EU exports of goods compared with Extra EU exports of goods by Member State, 2013
(% share of total exports of goods) - Source: Eurostat(TET00038) and (TET00039)

And the UK's dependence on the EU is rapidly shrinking:

Table 6: Intra EU exports of goods compared with Extra EU exports of goods by Member State, 2002 and 2013
(% share of total exports of goods)- Source: Eurostat (TET00038) and (TET00039)

For reference, by the way, the UK's exports to the US have grown steadily:

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4120.html

(in $bn)
2002: 40.745
2015: 57.962

The ultimate irony of this is the EU criticism of the "irrationality" of the British in voting for Brexit. No. It is the EU that is overly emotional and irrational by not rushing to conclude a trade deal with the UK that will ensure Britain remains interested in the EU. With every passing year, the EU becomes less significant to the UK, but the same is not true in the reverse. Germany has been relatively mature about the situation, despite the screaming by France and the PIIGS, so let's hope some of the famous German realpolitik emerges to do the smart thing.

Even if the EU descends into mindless hysteria, Britain has powerful friends that would be willing to pick up the slack.

By the way, sometimes I think outside press reads my posts:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/28/brexit-fix-add-uk-to-nafta.html

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

Leave side dont have good representative with clear vision or proper road-map . they are also not as effective speaker as David cameron. It seem they have not done their home work before starting the campaign of leave as most of them seem clueless and confuse

 

[jaunty]

I don't use smilies in a serious discussion, it's detracting and makes you look daft. Did you see me using one in this thread, or replying to you?

Are you serious? Didn't you see the one I quoted on the post above? Or are you feigning blissful blindness? I am sure if I dig hard, there will be more. The bottom line is that you reacted emotionally (first rudely asking me to be concerned about India and then going on and on about smileys whereas you yourself used one) and assumed things that weren't there. This is my last post to you on this topic. So long!

 

[yugocrosrb95]

@LeveragedBuyout

Man, do you need to embarass yourself with this kid of display of ignorance and using Fox as source which is equivalent to Daily Mail which is ridiculed by most of UK as Daily Fail.

UK had the best position in EU and now they wasted all the benefits they had no other EU member has.

Brexit is result of Leave campaign politicians outright lying to the people as they spread misinformation about EU which isn't new since UK media spread it since 1970's when they joined ECC. Leave campaign spread such FUD and misinformation in Brexit campaign which was unheard off since Nazi's in 1930's in Germany.

EU is UK largest trading partner and raise in trading with US follows monetary inflation while US is interested in trade deal with EU in which UK was the bridge as it was for many other countries.

Brexit is result of British politics and lack of responsibility of British politicians as media spread misjnformation, lies and blamed EU for problems while British politicians used that and British goverment was quiet because it was in their interest.

As we stand right now, Brexit is very likely result in disolussion of union of United Kingdom as Northern Ireland wants to stay in EU thus it may unify with rest of Ireland to make a single country while Gilbratar also wants its independence to stay in EU, otherwise they will suffer massively economically and then we have Scotland where it was backstabbed by Wales and England as Scotland only stayed in British union due to EU which is now gone, also we have London which seeks greater autonomy and possibly independence from UK. London and Scotland make a quarter of UK's GDP.

Due to UK leaving EU, their NHS will collapse since a lot of it consists of EU migrants that fill the gap which UK on its own can't fill.

 

[Star Wars]

As of right now, tata plant, siemens , honda and a couple of other plants are in the risk of shutting down. Hiring as stopped and projects are on hold. People who got most benefits from EU voted leave. Should probably give them the darwin awards 2016.

@LeveragedBuyout

Man, do you need to embarass yourself with this kid of display of ignorance and using Fox as source which is equivalent to Daily Mail which is ridiculed by most of UK as Daily Fail.

UK had the best position in EU and now they wasted all the benefits they had no other EU member has.

Brexit is result of Leave campaign politicians outright lying to the people as they spread misinformation about EU which isn't new since UK media spread it since 1970's when they joined ECC. Leave campaign spread such FUD and misinformation in Brexit campaign which was unheard off since Nazi's in 1930's in Germany.

EU is UK largest trading partner and raise in trading with US follows monetary inflation while US is interested in trade deal with EU in which UK was the bridge as it was for many other countries.

Brexit is result of British politics and lack of responsibility of British politicians as media spread misjnformation, lies and blamed EU for problems while British politicians used that and British goverment was quiet because it was in their interest.

As we stand right now, Brexit is very likely result in disolussion of union of United Kingdom as Northern Ireland wants to stay in EU thus it may unify with rest of Ireland to make a single country while Gilbratar also wants its independence to stay in EU, otherwise they will suffer massively economically and then we have Scotland where it was backstabbed by Wales and England as Scotland only stayed in British union due to EU which is now gone, also we have London which seeks greater autonomy and possibly independence from UK. London and Scotland make a quarter of UK's GDP.

Due to UK leaving EU, their NHS will collapse since a lot of it consists of EU migrants that fill the gap which UK on its own can't fill.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. Ironic that british natonalists may end up destroying the union.

 

[maximuswarrior]

EU members are in denial. The EU has not been a significant benefit to the UK:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Intra-EU_trade_in_goods_-_recent_trends

Table 1: Exports of goods to other Member State, 2002 and 2013
(EUR 1 000 million) - Source: Eurostat (TET00039)

Look at that and ponder: absolutely no growth in exports of British goods to the EU over a ten year period. Meanwhile, the UK has been soaking up other EU member states' exports:

Figure 4: Intra-EU trade in goods balance by Member State, 2013
(EUR 1 000 million)- Source: Eurostat (TET00039)

And the UK's role as consumer of last resort for the EU has grown ever larger:

Table 2: Trade in goods balance with other Member State, 2002 and 2013
(EUR 1 000 million) - Source: Eurostat (TET00039)

The UK trades more outside the EU than it does inside the EU:

Figure 5: Intra EU exports of goods compared with Extra EU exports of goods by Member State, 2013
(% share of total exports of goods) - Source: Eurostat(TET00038) and (TET00039)

And the UK's dependence on the EU is rapidly shrinking:

Table 6: Intra EU exports of goods compared with Extra EU exports of goods by Member State, 2002 and 2013
(% share of total exports of goods)- Source: Eurostat (TET00038) and (TET00039)

For reference, by the way, the UK's exports to the US have grown steadily:

https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c4120.html

(in $bn)
2002: 40.745
2015: 57.962

The ultimate irony of this is the EU criticism of the "irrationality" of the British in voting for Brexit. No. It is the EU that is overly emotional and irrational by not rushing to conclude a trade deal with the UK that will ensure Britain remains interested in the EU. With every passing year, the EU becomes less significant to the UK, but the same is not true in the reverse. Germany has been relatively mature about the situation, despite the screaming by France and the PIIGS, so let's hope some of the famous German realpolitik emerges to do the smart thing.

Even if the EU descends into mindless hysteria, Britain has powerful friends that would be willing to pick up the slack.

By the way, sometimes I think outside press reads my posts:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/06/28/brexit-fix-add-uk-to-nafta.html

Like a member has already pointed out, the sources you have cited are highly biased and even inaccurate. Besides, recent economic trends are just a glimpse of the entire trade relation between Britain and the EU. There is no need for me to cite stats and figures because we all know that trade and export between Britain and the EU is largely equally balanced. Both the EU and Britain have a two way beneficial trade relation. It is not like one side has advantage over the other.

The EU doesn't seem to care about a trade deal with Britain at the moment. Britain made an irrational choice by leaving the EU which is their decision. Britain is ridiculing the EU and expecting riches in return. It doesn't work that way. The EU has already accepted Britain's decision. Britain should not moan. It needs to take solid action and swiftly exit the EU. Also, Britain should do whatever it seeks to do. Britain should by all means work closely with her "powerful" friends. Britain should not hijack nor blackmail the EU. Just invoke article 50 and do whatever needs to be done.

 

[SMS Derfflinger]

It is unclear who would like to lose what. Of course, the EU has a deficit, especially Germany, but in in which form? This entire statistics don`t show the whole picture. Who could sell his goods easier to other countries after the exit? As i know, UK depends heavily on his financial sector, would the able to sell this services to other countries, too? Or we, could we divert our goods to other, for whom that is easier, for whom more difficult. I don`t want to start another discussion about "who is stonger BS", no, we should view realistic on the entire situation.

To be honest, if it be to Germany...you would get already an example of german "Realpolitik" and the UK would get their free tariff. But this is the point, we are not alone in the EU (what some have members still not understood) and Mutti has to be cautious about her doing. Many countries, countries, which don`t have a deficit like Germany and the f.. in bruessel want to punish the Brits.
On the other side, in one point they are right, UK has made a choice, don`t wait until october...we all should take a little break, of course and then invoke article 50 and don`t expect the full basket like a full member. You would get probably much and something hidden, but surely not all.

Btw. @waz @mike2000 is back I`m already grateful to you, what you have did. It seems, it has bring some sanity back to our political leadership.

Sorry, only google translate

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/ceta-eu-103.html&edit-text=

 

[mike2000 is back]

@LeveragedBuyout

Man, do you need to embarass yourself with this kid of display of ignorance and using Fox as source which is equivalent to Daily Mail which is ridiculed by most of UK as Daily Fail.

UK had the best position in EU and now they wasted all the benefits they had no other EU member has.

Brexit is result of Leave campaign politicians outright lying to the people as they spread misinformation about EU which isn't new since UK media spread it since 1970's when they joined ECC. Leave campaign spread such FUD and misinformation in Brexit campaign which was unheard off since Nazi's in 1930's in Germany.

EU is UK largest trading partner and raise in trading with US follows monetary inflation while US is interested in trade deal with EU in which UK was the bridge as it was for many other countries.

Brexit is result of British politics and lack of responsibility of British politicians as media spread misjnformation, lies and blamed EU for problems while British politicians used that and British goverment was quiet because it was in their interest.

As we stand right now, Brexit is very likely result in disolussion of union of United Kingdom as Northern Ireland wants to stay in EU thus it may unify with rest of Ireland to make a single country while Gilbratar also wants its independence to stay in EU, otherwise they will suffer massively economically and then we have Scotland where it was backstabbed by Wales and England as Scotland only stayed in British union due to EU which is now gone, also we have London which seeks greater autonomy and possibly independence from UK. London and Scotland make a quarter of UK's GDP.

Due to UK leaving EU, their NHS will collapse since a lot of it consists of EU migrants that fill the gap which UK on its own can't fill.

Yes we have heard that " U.K will collapse outside the E.U" too many times already. its getting boring to be honest.
As if there was no Britain before the E.U was formed. Lol Carry on. Nothing new you said that we havent already heard before

 

[Porus]

To be honest, if it be to Germany...you would get already an example of german "Realpolitik" and the UK would get their free tariff. But this is the point, we are not alone in the EU (what some have members still not understood) and Mutti has to be cautious about her doing. Many countries, countries, which don`t have a deficit like Germany and the f.. in bruessel want to punish the Brits.
On the other side, in one point they are right, UK has made a choice, don`t wait until october...we all should take a little break, of course and then invoke article 50 and don`t expect the full basket like a full member. You would get probably much and something hidden, but surely not all.

The people in the UK have given their verdict and it should be implemented at the earliest opportunity. The same messages are coming from the other EU leaders like Hollande and Merkel. No further talks unless UK invoke § 50, which is a correct approach in my opinion. The EUSSr, zeee Germans or Hitler Merkel should not be a bogeyman of the Brexiters and British politicians in the future and last but not least if the UK remains a members of the union it will only create further problems for the EU. Therefore, an amicable divorce will be the best outcome for the UK and EU.