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The U.S. just sent a carrier strike group to confront China

and your leadership keeps coming up with two front war, nukes against China, air force against china, Army against china, navy against china, all military strength against China


The British went down..... so will the yankees.

New world order with a multipolar world coming.

A very ripe time for India to make sure India China dispute is history.



Actually if time requires, PLAN can get their Type052C/D, Type 051C and Russian destroyers up in no time. And the billion dollar sensor laden ships of US will be fodder for Sea skimmers.
 
and your leadership keeps coming up with two front war, nukes against China, air force against china, Army against china, navy against china, all military strength against China

The hype is from media for local consumption.
And it has some substance.

Also buddy just because may be we get friends with everyone, we shouldn't get our guard down.
 
In Vietnam War, if US didn't show the greed for Cam Ranh Bay and let Vietnam unify itself, US would not suffer such a huge loss of lives and money. US might expand economic interests in the Whole Vietnam as early as 70s. Now United States is repeating the same mistake in SCS. While US is boasting navigation in SCS, this is treated a big weakness by regional countries.

If an empire makes the same mistake in the same region, something is deeply wrong in your decision making system. Together with Trump phenomena and inability to maintain infrastructures, something is deeply wrong in your political establishment. That's why Pivotal to Asia doesn't receive the results as expected. All regional countries are asking for payments from US, instead of paying US, to explore weakness in US. Japan wants more military independence, Vietnam wants more economic benefits. They think that they are doing US a favor, instead of US doing them a favor.

Frankly I am very surprised by the wisdom of US leadership in pivotal to Asia. From Iraq and Afghanistan, US should learn that no matter how powerful you are, when your power projection is at its maximum, some farmers with extremely low grade weapons can hit you hard. But US still wants to try a test for maximum power projection in the same place you failed 40 years ago. Personal greed has driven US leadership crazy. Many Americans clearly sense it. That's why anti-establishment is so popular in this presidential election.
 
817686_0.jpg

Maps of Anxi District of Tang Empire in 751. It covered Afganistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazakstan. This district was more than 3,000 km. from Tang Capital Changan. District Governors had the freedom for wars without emperor's approval. The Korean General of Anxi District Gao XianZhi had a war with Rising Arabic Empire to protect one allied tribe(Battle of Talas) and lost 20,000 soldiers. This was the turning point for Tang Empire. After this defeat, Tang faced many revolts to former so called allies. In 755, The same general Gao XianZhi had to lead a defense battle to defend Tongguan Fortress, the east gate to Tang empire's capital. He lost the war and got killed. The Tang emperor had to flee the capital.

In 751, Tang empire was at its peak with imperial army advancing in Central Asia and controlled almost the whole China including Siberia. In 755, Tang empire had to defend its capital. A reckless expansion switched the fate of an empire very quickly. United States is such a young country with very limited experience on empires. Continuous rise makes Americans think that US is exceptional.

Before that small war loss, Tang empire proved itself invincible. In the east, Its navy defeated Japan navy in Korea pennisular. Japan started to learn from Tang and even introduced Chinese characters into Japanese language voluntarily. In the north, it crushed Turks and drove Turks completely out of China. It established governance even in Siberia with almost all nomad tribes under its governance. In the South, its army advanced without any defeat except by the mountains. In the West, it advanced until it met the Arabic Empire. The over-expansion allowed a small war loss to completely switch its fate.
 
^ china is doing in contested
In the era of missiles, United States want to put the defending line as far as South Korea. China just wants to have a defense line from SCS, Taiwan and ECS.


Of course Chinese understand the dilemma of United States. This is a typical dilemma for powerful empires, especially over-extended empires. In Chinese dynasties, Tang dynasty was the most powerful. The fall of Tang Empire started with a small war in Central Asia, or Afganistan now. The AnXi district governor wanted to protect one nomadic tribe under the threat of rising Arabic Empire. The district army lost the war and lost an army of 20,000 which could be ignored by just the district army. But many tribes under control by Tang Empire treated this as one big moment that Tang army could be defeated and revolted. After that, Tang empire was busy in crushing revolts and fell apart.

It is not easy for empires. As long as your weakness is shown, even your ally could be your enemy because they are so eager to fill in vacuums. Retreat is also very important for empires. Just as Vietnam, when United States started to give up on South Vietnam, it was a very successful retreat. US loss of lives in Vietnam war was completely mean-less. Now US even can expand your interests into North Vietnam.

There is a Chinese saying: A good army should make both good advancement and good re treatment. Clearly China views as Pivotal to Asia as a mindless advancement and wants to take advantage of it to militarize SCS. US cannot do anything to stop it since here US power is nearly at its maximum extension and very weak. As proved by Vietnam War, SCS is a resistance wall for US power.

North Korea is run by some 30 year old dictator who has the power to launch nuke, if he woke in the wrong side of the bed. South Korea & Japan deserves everything they can to protect themselves from total annihilation.
In the era of missiles, United States want to put the defending line as far as South Korea. China just wants to have a defense line from SCS, Taiwan and ECS.


Of course Chinese understand the dilemma of United States. This is a typical dilemma for powerful empires, especially over-extended empires. In Chinese dynasties, Tang dynasty was the most powerful. The fall of Tang Empire started with a small war in Central Asia, or Afganistan now. The AnXi district governor wanted to protect one nomadic tribe under the threat of rising Arabic Empire. The district army lost the war and lost an army of 20,000 which could be ignored by just the district army. But many tribes under control by Tang Empire treated this as one big moment that Tang army could be defeated and revolted. After that, Tang empire was busy in crushing revolts and fell apart.

It is not easy for empires. As long as your weakness is shown, even your ally could be your enemy because they are so eager to fill in vacuums. Retreat is also very important for empires. Just as Vietnam, when United States started to give up on South Vietnam, it was a very successful retreat. US loss of lives in Vietnam war was completely mean-less. Now US even can expand your interests into North Vietnam.

There is a Chinese saying: A good army should make both good advancement and good re treatment. Clearly China views as Pivotal to Asia as a mindless advancement and wants to take advantage of it to militarize SCS. US cannot do anything to stop it since here US power is nearly at its maximum extension and very weak. As proved by Vietnam War, SCS is a resistance wall for US power.

1) north korea has nukes and believe it, they will use when that 30 year old wakes up in the wrong side of the bed.. S.korea & Japan needs all the defense they can get their hands on. China has actually sanction north korea.. China should worry about N.korea instead of Thaad missiles places in S.korea.

2)S.vietnam is different from Japan, Philippines..
Philippines have a 100 year history with america. 220,000 U.S. citizens in the Philippines, 650,000 U.S. citizens visit the Philippines each year, estimate 4 million filipinos in america ( in US navy & american politics).. religion, cultural & political linkage...(in short )relationship run deeper than politics... most american's still remembers that philippines fought with america against japan in ww2...

on vietnam war, american policy was to stop the ''domino theory'' stopping spreading of communism. most american's didn't support the vietnam war from the beginning.. yes america lost the vietnam war politically but not military.

the only way america will leave asia if ''our allies want's ameirca out of asia''..
1st & most foremost america see's itself a pacific power, and we do see asia-pacific as our sphere of influence.
 
The weakening of Tang Empire changed the fate of many tribes because Tang couldn't manage the conflicts among them. Uyghurs were at Mongolia at that time and made significant contributions in Tang's defeating of Turks. Western Turks fled West to Central Asia and asked for protection from Arabic Empire. Eastern Turks surrendered to Tang. Later the royal family got a Chinese surname Shi and got incorporated into Han Chinese. After the weakening of Tang Empire, many tribes started to fight each other. Uyghurs got defeated by Kyrgyz in Mongolia highland and lost the living spaces. Tang relocated Uyghurs to Southern Xinjiang and Gansu. At that time, they believed in Buddhism. In Gansu, you still could see Uyghurs believing in Buddhism which were called Yughur now.

The current so called Eastern Turkistan were introduced by Russia and Turks after Russia and China (Qing) started to compete each other in Xinjiang and Siberia. Actually Uyghurs were enemy of Eastern Turks and Eastern Turks were incorporated into Han Chinese.

^ china is doing in contested


North Korea is run by some 30 year old dictator who has the power to launch nuke, if he woke in the wrong side of the bed. South Korea & Japan deserves everything they can to protect themselves from total annihilation.


1) north korea has nukes and believe it, they will use when that 30 year old wakes up in the wrong side of the bed.. S.korea & Japan needs all the defense they can get their hands on. China has actually sanction north korea.. China should worry about N.korea instead of Thaad missiles places in S.korea.

2)S.vietnam is different from Japan, Philippines..
Philippines have a 100 year history with america. 220,000 U.S. citizens in the Philippines, 650,000 U.S. citizens visit the Philippines each year, estimate 4 million filipinos in america ( in US navy & american politics).. religion, cultural & political linkage...(in short )relationship run deeper than politics... most american's still remembers that philippines fought with america against japan in ww2...

on vietnam war, american policy was to stop the ''domino theory'' stopping spreading of communism. most american's didn't support the vietnam war from the beginning.. yes america lost the vietnam war politically but not military.

the only way america will leave asia if ''our allies want's ameirca out of asia''..
1st & most foremost america see's itself a pacific power, and we do see asia-pacific as our sphere of influence.
China and United States clearly have common grounds on Nukes. China wants to have nuclear free zone include Koreas and Japan as a nulcear buffer zone among China, Russia and USA.

The relation between China and North Korea is very and very complicated.

North Korea, different from South Korea was part of China until Tang Empire fell. Strategically North Korea is very and very important to China and treated as a gate to Beijing. For the last 1500 years, almost all dynasties fought a war over there, include PRC. Qing dynasty fought numerous wars with British, French and Russia. Even though China lost some wars, China was still safe until Japan tore China apart through North Korea. Japan and China had fought three major wars in North Korea during last 1500 years and Japan clearly knew Chinese weakness in North Korea. China is protected by Himalayas, Pamirs, Siberia and Pacific. North Korea is the only entry point to tear apart China.

After Tang empire fell, Korea remained Vassal state of China. Current North Korea is the only independent Korea in its whole history. To protect its independence, Chinese are not allowed for North Korea citizenship. Just in three years after Korean war, Kim I liquidated any Korean officials with careers in China or Soviet. Many of those Native Koreans had to go to China or Soviet. As you can see, North Korea is very mad at its independence. That's why China is very careful on it. It can go mad beyond nukes. The relation of China with Kim dynasty was not good even during Korean war.

The only solution for North Korea is for its party to overturn Kim dynasty. China can only wait because Kim family liquidate anyone with Chinese connection beyond regular business, including their own blood. China, not United States, is the biggest enemy of Kim dynasty. The situation is similar in Vietnam. Just Vietnam doesn't have a dynasty and is much more reasonable.

When China dominated East Asia, Korea and Vietnam were the most loyal. But now they dislike China the most because they want to protect their independence. As Vietnam's founder Ho Chi Minh said, if Chinese came, they could stay for 1000 years. That's the trouble for empires. The relation of Philippines to US is similar. When they treasure independence, they hate USA most; but when they are in trouble, you should be the first to help.

North Korea used to the land of Han Chinese. In Tang dynasty, the capital of North Korea Pyongyang was the capital of AnDong district. The capital of South Korea Seoul was called Han City in Chinese character and was changed only in 2005 to hide the fact. The river near the city is still called Han River. When Tang fell, they moved the border to Taedong River. In Ming dynasty, the border moved to the current Yalu river. The land was awarded to Koreans for their loyalty in Ming's wars with Mongols. North Korea is extremely nervous with China. Anyone with Chinese blood is denied citizenship and is treated as permanent residents with Chinese citizenship.
 
The weakening of Tang Empire changed the fate of many tribes because Tang couldn't manage the conflicts among them. Uyghurs were at Mongolia at that time and made significant contributions in Tang's defeating of Turks. Western Turks fled West to Central Asia and asked for protection from Arabic Empire. Eastern Turks surrendered to Tang. Later the royal family got a Chinese surname Shi and got incorporated into Han Chinese. After the weakening of Tang Empire, many tribes started to fight each other. Uyghurs got defeated by Kyrgyz in Mongolia highland and lost the living spaces. Tang relocated Uyghurs to Southern Xinjiang and Gansu. At that time, they believed in Buddhism. In Gansu, you still could see Uyghurs believing in Buddhism which were called Yughur now.

The current so called Eastern Turkistan were introduced by Russia and Turks after Russia and China (Qing) started to compete each other in Xinjiang and Siberia. Actually Uyghurs were enemy of Eastern Turks and Eastern Turks were incorporated into Han Chinese.


China and United States clearly have common grounds on Nukes. China wants to have nuclear free zone include Koreas and Japan as a nulcear buffer zone among China, Russia and USA.

The relation between China and North Korea is very and very complicated.

North Korea, different from South Korea was part of China until Tang Empire fell. Strategically North Korea is very and very important to China and treated as a gate to Beijing. For the last 1500 years, almost all dynasties fought a war over there, include PRC. Qing dynasty fought numerous wars with British, French and Russia. Even though China lost some wars, China was still safe until Japan tore China apart through North Korea. Japan and China had fought three major wars in North Korea during last 1500 years and Japan clearly knew Chinese weakness in North Korea. China is protected by Himalayas, Pamirs, Siberia and Pacific. North Korea is the only entry point to tear apart China.

After Tang empire fell, Korea remained Vassal state of China. Current North Korea is the only independent Korea in its whole history. To protect its independence, Chinese are not allowed for North Korea citizenship. Just in three years after Korean war, Kim I liquidated any Korean officials with careers in China or Soviet. Many of those Native Koreans had to go to China or Soviet. As you can see, North Korea is very mad at its independence. That's why China is very careful on it. It can go mad beyond nukes. The relation of China with Kim dynasty was not good even during Korean war.

The only solution for North Korea is for its party to overturn Kim dynasty. China can only wait because Kim family liquidate anyone with Chinese connection beyond regular business, including their own blood. China, not United States, is the biggest enemy of Kim dynasty. The situation is similar in Vietnam. Just Vietnam doesn't have a dynasty and is much more reasonable.

When China dominated East Asia, Korea and Vietnam were the most loyal. But now they dislike China the most because they want to protect their independence. As Vietnam's founder Ho Chi Minh said, if Chinese came, they could stay for 1000 years. That's the trouble for empires. The relation of Philippines to US is similar. When they treasure independence, they hate USA most; but when they are in trouble, you should be the first to help.

North Korea used to the land of Han Chinese. In Tang dynasty, the capital of North Korea Pyongyang was the capital of AnDong district. The capital of South Korea Seoul was called Han City in Chinese character and was changed only in 2005 to hide the fact. The river near the city is still called Han River. When Tang fell, they moved the border to Taedong River. In Ming dynasty, the border moved to the current Yalu river. The land was awarded to Koreans for their loyalty in Ming's wars with Mongols. North Korea is extremely nervous with China. Anyone with Chinese blood is denied citizenship and is treated as permanent residents with Chinese citizenship.

are you trying to say vietnamese & koreans are chinese?? .. I don't know what to say.. i'll have to wait what will vietnamese & koreans feel about that. but base on my observation with vietnamese,S. koreans are always hostile with chinese.

I get what what you mean about over extending our empire.. but we're not declining. if we lose our sphere of influence, then we lose our soft power.. we lose our ''soft power'' we lose our market international and lose the value of dollar.
it's also business..

like i said.. america has no desire picking a fight with china, we prefer to work with china.. but the future doesn't look bright.
 
In Vietnam War, if US didn't show the greed for Cam Ranh Bay and let Vietnam unify itself, US would not suffer such a huge loss of lives and money. US might expand economic interests in the Whole Vietnam as early as 70s. Now United States is repeating the same mistake in SCS. While US is boasting navigation in SCS, this is treated a big weakness by regional countries.

Treated a big weakness by regional countries? And who would they be? I keep reading about the Apac countries welcoming the US more and more to the region.

are you trying to say vietnamese & koreans are chinese?? .. I don't know what to say.. i'll have to wait what will vietnamese & koreans feel about that. but base on my observation with vietnamese,S. koreans are always hostile with chinese.

I can’t speak for Koreans, but this chart sums up well the sentiments in Vietnam. Only 19% of Vietnamese have favorable views about China:

Asia-Heat-Map.png
 
Treated a big weakness by regional countries? And who would they be? I keep reading about the Apac countries welcoming the US more and more to the region.



I can’t speak for Koreans, but this chart sums up well the sentiments in Vietnam. Only 19% of Vietnamese have favorable views about China:
You just welcome US for free services to help defend your sovereignty. US expands for more interests. If the expansion has negative profits, it cannot last long.

As I said clearly, no matter what China does, Vietnam and North Korea are hostile toward China, just to safeguard your so called independence. Vietnam started to drive out Vietnamese Chinese almost as soon as you drove Americans out. Similar to North Korea. As soon as the armistice was signed, North Korea started to limit Chinese activities in North Korea. Percentages of Chinese population are the lowest in Vietnam, North Korea and Mongolia.

At some extent, Vietnam, North Korea and Mongolia do not know how to become an independent country. You have to rely on extreme nationalism to protect your independence. Clearly Thailand is much better in this area and is the only country not colonized.
 
are you trying to say vietnamese & koreans are chinese?? .. I don't know what to say.. i'll have to wait what will vietnamese & koreans feel about that.
For the Viets, we think it is a stupid argument.
 
Chinamerica Rumba dance on the sea:chilli::chilli:

070654owlqurrbbbx2csra.jpg

What's that supposed to mean??

Are you trying to say the two ship is similar or you are trying to say that the Chinese are watching??
 
Being surrounded at close range means the multi-billion dollar American aircraft carrier is now within range of cheap naval artillery guns.

View attachment 297127

How exactly does that put the US Navy in an advantageous position?

The Chinese ships are also in international waters. There's no law against sailing close to a USN ship.

Agree there is no law against sailing close to USN ships in international waters. Probably why the U.S navy carried on without much fuss either. Asia will be the next hotspots in world issues/conflict these coming years. Interesting.

They surely wanna test China's patience. I suppose they forgot the Korean War and famous phrase, "The longest retreat in American military history".
Mate, NO country can challenge the U.S navy in the high seas. Only a fool will think otherwise.

Plus Korean war was mainly a land based conflict bordering China and the SOVIET UNION. So I think its logical the U.S,U.K,Australia and other western powers had to fight China. N.Korea and indirectly the Soviet union in Korea farrrrrr away from their country/neighbourhood to a standstill. If anything its still an achievement for the U.S and allies since they didnt lost.
Its like Great Britain taking on say the Australian navy/military in N.Ireland or Russia fighting the U.S in mexico and fighting to a standstill, you cant bet there is nothing for the U.S or U.K to be so proud about, since a big power fighting in its own backyard ought to crushany foreign power who is fighting miles away from its homeland.
 

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