The true Afghanistan

[Winchester]

How is this thread relevant to this forum?

If the OP wants to focus on the history of Pushtuns which are a significant portion of our population then there is already an ongoing thread about it.

 

[Mian Babban]

How is this thread relevant to this forum?

I.

Because big chunk of Afghanistan/Pashtunkhwa is part of Pakistan , and because much of the Koh Sulieman range is in Pakistan. Its as much relevant as Sikh history

The question is, what are you doing in history section?. Are you here to just express your nationalistic self or you have some thing to contribute to the topic?

 

[Winchester]

Because big chunk of Afghanistan/Pashtunkhwa is part of Pakistan , and because much of the Koh Sulieman range is in Pakistan. Its as much relevant as Sikh history

The question is, what are you doing in history section?. Are you here to just express your nationalistic self or you have some thing to contribute to the topic?

You could have done yourself a favour and finished your post after the first paragraph.

Anyways since you have asked I am here because you have a history of being a shararti/mischievous poster, very much contrary to the image of a seedha sadha straight forward person you like to project. Hence your intentions about creating a thread about the ancient boundaries of Afghanistan do warrant some queries.

 

[Khanate]

You are all over the place buddy. Whats up with the mentions of "ghairat", "mullah omar" , "Javed Afridi of Hair", "CPEC", "China" , "OBL" ? ........there are other sections for these discussions, you are being off-topic here like every other Pakistani nationalist.

How is your thread titled, "The True Afghanistan" relevant to Pakistan? Explain.

 

[Mian Babban]

You could have done yourself a favour and finished your post after the first paragraph.

Anyways since you have asked I am here because you have a history of being a shararti/mischievous poster, very much contrary to the image of a seedha sadha straight forward person you like to project. Hence your intentions about creating a thread about the ancient boundaries of Afghanistan do warrant some queries.

So you admit that you are not here to learn or enrich knowledge of others, but merely to poke and provoke

 

[Winchester]

So you admit that you are not here to learn or enrich knowledge of others, but merely to poke and provoke

You mean poking a known provocateur?

 

[Khan_21]

What are you doing in history section?

What are you doing on a Pakistani forum with your usual anti-Pakistan venom ?

 

[Mian Babban]

How is your thread titled, "The True Afghanistan" relevant to Pakistan? Explain.

There is a country/state by name of Afghanistan but its more of a misnomer. Afghanistan was supposed to be just a geographical region like Dardistan, Turkestan etc. Now keeping this information in mind, i have shared information about True Afghanistan much of which lies actually in the state of Pakistan .

 

[Khanate]

There is a country/state by name of Afghanistan but its more of a misnomer. Afghanistan was supposed to be just a geographical region like Dardistan, Turkestan etc.

In which case, the citizens of Afghanistan who demand that the name of Afghanistan be changed have a legitimate argument on their hand as the current term is a "misnomer". However, this is an internal matter of Afghanistan.

Now keeping this information in mind, i have shared information about True Afghanistan much of which lies actually in the state of Pakistan .

"True Afghanistan" is about as relevant as Akhand Bharat when it comes to History of Pakistan. If you like to discuss the history of Pakhtuns of Pakistan then "True Afghanistan" is the wrong title because it serves to confuse the readers as is evident.

 

[Pakistani E]

Why do you keep adding lands where Hindkos and related people live to the modern state of Afghanistan? The state of Afghanistan is not synonymous with Pashtuns as the majority are non Pashtuns (55-58%).

Or are you simply claiming all this part as "Afghanistan" because it has significant Pashtun populations?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

There is a country/state by name of Afghanistan but its more of a misnomer.

I agree. but this is common in history. A place gives rise to a name but over time "drifts" to another region. Take the case of Asia. It originally was coined by Greeks to mean the other coast of the Aegean. Today many associate that name with places as as Japan. Or take Romania which has nothing to do with Roman Empire. Old Rome is now Italy. Or West Indians. Or even Indonesia. Or India itself. Because India was sourced from River Indus - that is India meant the Indus region but today it means something else. And you mentioned 'nationalism'. One of the manifestations of that is when people today uses past empires and or lands to connect with today. To a certain extent we all do that. If Pakistan today tried to claim Duraani empire what reaction do you think we would get from Kabul?

Yes, I already know the refrain I would get from Afghan nationalists. They would say the Durrani Empire is Pashtun and not "Indic" therefore it belongs to them. My question back would be okay but how does a Afghan Tajik, Afghan turkmen or Afghan Hazara Mongol have to do with Durrani Empire? By that measure a Pashtun from Pakistan has more right to Durrani Empire then at least 50% of Afghans as they are not Pashtuns.

On a separate note how accurate is this map?

What are you doing on a Pakistani forum with your usual anti-Pakistan venom ?

Just because you disagree with mIan Babban does not mean we should not let him his say. I don't think he is anti-Pakistan. He has his own thoughts which are perhaps out sync with present realities but you can't flog a person for that. The correct way forward is to engage in debate and discussion. We are all on a journey of learning new vistas. And any way is there not enough Indians here to keep us occupied?

 

[Khan_21]

Just because you disagree with mIan Babban does not mean we should not let him his say. I don't think he is anti-Pakistan. He has his own thoughts which are perhaps out sync with present realities but you can't flog a person for that. The correct way forward is to engage in debate and discussion. We are all on a journey of learning new vistas. And any way is there not enough Indians here to keep us occupied?

We have interacted on another forum and he frequently cheered about how TTP used to slit throats of Pakistani army in Swat Operations . I can post those screenshots

 

[saiyan0321]

Interesting. I see. This corresponds with their other titles when they settled in the subcontinent I.e rohillas. Very interesting.

Yet


What is equally very interesting is why is everybody else in a knot. I am really curious about that.

Pashtun history is part of Pakistan like sindh history, baluch history, Sikh history ( have any of you every given MA history part 2 in Punjab. There is an entire subject about Punjab which details Sikh history, their combats with mughals and ranjeet Singh's empire and his struggles with the British. Why bcz it happened on this land, by these people making it our history), the history of our north. All of this is our past. True modern day states are very different from historical states and the maps often showcase complete contrast with modern States but what has @Mian Babban posted that is incurring such a reaction? Its simple history of this land. He is not saying break pakistan, he is not saying this is Afghanistan sole history. In fact he is saying its ours. So what is the issue that has brought in bajuar, Afghanistan, secessions and nationalism.

@Kaptaan you have often claimed that pakistan has foolishly gifted Indus history to Indians based on simple name but wouldn't that stand true with Afghanistan as well. Look at the reaction on our own history. We hold majority pashtuns and majority historical pashtun lands yet we have given them the very essence of afghan just like we have given India the very essence of Indian. Is this also not wrong when so much of modern day Afghanistan was not even in original pushtun lands just like nearly nothing of India was in Indus.
I understand your concern and point how history is something we learn from to better our future and evolve ourselves and not to repeat it or try to implement it bcz the latter always fails since world is always evolving and changing.

OP own views and controversial points have nothing to do with this thread. This is a historical thread on the history of Pakistan. What happened on the lands that became pakistan. How history shaped here. Four pages of absolute rubbish was witnessed rather than any enlightened historical debate. At least kaptaan and mian baban touched on history. The rest was nothing but a severe disappointment.

Embrace the past and look to the future with hope.

I wish to learn so I truly hope more threads like these come about which will generate good discussions!! And not what I witnessed here.

 

[Areesh]

And now the same guys are your biggest friends and your boss. Talk about state of Afghans today

 

[El Sidd]

The concept of Afghanistan predates the modern Afghan state and much of it consisted of the areas which are now in Pakistan. Pashtuns themselves have called this region Pashtunkhwa. Others have called it Afghanistan and Roh , the terms which have also been used by Pashtuns themselves for their country. It extended from river Helmand to river Indus and its core was Koh-i-Sulieman range.

Suleiman mountain range is very vast area and it also runs in Loy Paktiya region (Paktia, Paktika and Khost). Some people assume that Koh-i-Suliman is some range in Baluchistan province but to get an idea, it also runs in hilly portion of Dera Ismail Khan and Waziristan, and in DG Khan of Punjab. It also extends to Zabul and Kandahar. In the past, Pashtuns were called Suliamanis as Koh-i-Sulieman was their country. For example a famous saint of India, Qasim Sulimani, was a Pashtun and his disciple who wrote book on him by name of "Asrar-ul-Afghan", informs us that Pashtuns are also called Suliamanis in India. 14th century traveler Ibn-i-Batuta also say that Afghans are called Suliemanis because their abode is Sulieman range. Ibni-i-Batuta furnishes this information at the point when he come across Afghans in Kabul. Afsana-i-Shahan (written in 1607 AD) narrates the Pashtun legend that the three brothers , Baitan, Sarban and Ghurghusht (progenitors of Afghan people) lived on the banks of Gomal river in the Sulieman mountains. These few historical references and legends hints Koh-i-Suliaman to be an ancient abode of Pashtuns. Ancient Greeks have called it "Arachosia"

People inhabiting Afghanistan have never experienced any state like existence prior to the modern Afghan state.

Traditionally they were the marauders and barbarians of the sub continent much like their distant cousins the Mongols.

The tribal nature of their existence makes it harder for them. Humans have tend to come as far as they encroaching lands in Afghanistan upto the point where peace could be maintained.

Now it is highly possible one of the pashtun tribe of nomadic nature claimed the said region as their ancestral home.

But equating this for an actual functioning state is a travesty of justice to the actual meaning of the word STATE