The Thorn in the Garden | Terrorism in Indo-Pak relations.

[jaibi]

Completely wrong, Quaid-e-Azam repeatedly tried to save minorities both from communal rioting and leaving. You're version of history might be exciting but it is utterly false.

Punjab was the region where the worse communal rioting hit, it was barbaric. Your instigation that that was M.A. Jinnah is absurd. Anyhow, there was no ethnic cleansing; communal rioting. The amount of fantasies that South Asians mix with History is just amazing.

No, my friend, Pakistan is not collapsing and that's only what a Pakistani can see, our dynamics are very different from yours and the world. We are not at all collapsing much as you would think. We have survived worst.

I will be frank ,but Jinnah encouraged genocide of minorities. Pakistani army itself was involved in leading mobs against minorities and Jinnah had bought weapons from Egypt for ethnic cleansing and imperialist expansion purposes. Look at what happened to your nation.You lost the enterpreneurial talent that the minorities had. Likely if you had confiscated some part of the lands from minorities and given to common pakistanis instead of ethnic cleansing ,pakistan would have had less trouble and today would have been rich nations.

But your govt decided to bed with extremists and look at the state of affairs. Pakistan was richer than India ,but now look at it.
The same minorities Pakistan ethnically cleansed ,they are doing very well in India. Pakistan ?? Its in a state of slow collapse.

 

[jaibi]

I said historically, not the present world, nation-states on religion.

Israel is quite a successful state, the most, perhaps in Middle East. It's a nation-state based on ethno-religion.

US/Canada border actually meant to be cooperative, not porous.

I know exactly what you are hinting at, I have read this angle; India and Pakistan, as well as the entire post-colonial world was carved out of imperialist convenience not for her people but the blame lies on both India and Pakistan for not being able to see that.

My mistake, as I can only see logic and nothing else. You said that religion based nations are not rare and came up with only three out of 190+ states on the earth. and those three are going through which state since their creation is a well known fact. A sane person like you should have understood by their condition itself that it is a failed foundation( neev) to build on a state.
Imagination of US and CANADA like border was a paper hoax thrown out to public by separatists hawks of both side at the time of partition. you are a researcher, research a bit more about force 136 during partition time. also research about the idea of creating a buffer state between india and middle east. there were many forces (including usa, russia,middle east, leave alon GB)working on at that time. and welfare of people or question of religion was the least priority to every involved interest. It was used rather abused by every party as a chara.
so mind my words, even if india give kashmir (heck even up, bihar, hayderabad etc. ) to pakistan, there wont be any peace.
the problem is not that simple as you think.

 

[Cherokee]

Only way to Progress is to completely ignore each other for a century or so .

 

[jetti]

i have a very honest question.
Around 8th or 9th std we were taught about theory of evolution. there is a general accesptance thats how we are in existance. they do teach about lamarckism and and one of 2 theories before comeing to Darwinism.
In pak do they teach this? or in science class do they say tat we come from A and E.
For Pak nationals in other countries how do you shield your kids from evolution?

I said historically, not the present world, nation-states on religion.

Israel is quite a successful state, the most, perhaps in Middle East. It's a nation-state based on ethno-religion.

US/Canada border actually meant to be cooperative, not porous.

I know exactly what you are hinting at, I have read this angle; India and Pakistan, as well as the entire post-colonial world was carved out of imperialist convenience not for her people but the blame lies on both India and Pakistan for not being able to see that.

for all practical purposes most of the mulsim maojority states are religon based nation states.

 

[Alpha1]

I will be frank ,but Jinnah encouraged genocide of minorities. Pakistani army itself was involved in leading mobs against minorities and Jinnah had bought weapons from Egypt for ethnic cleansing and imperialist expansion purposes.

which propganda book are you reading?
Because our Quaid said:
1. The state would be
completely impartial to religion of the individual.
2. The state where every citizen would be equal and there would be no distinction between
citizen on the basis of
faith or caste or creed.

 

[sovcomflot]

Completely wrong, Quaid-e-Azam repeatedly tried to save minorities both from communal rioting and leaving. You're version of history might be exciting but it is utterly false.

Punjab was the region where the worse communal rioting hit, it was barbaric. Your instigation that that was M.A. Jinnah is absurd. Anyhow, there was no ethnic cleansing; communal rioting. The amount of fantasies that South Asians mix with History is just amazing.

No, my friend, Pakistan is not collapsing and that's only what a Pakistani can see, our dynamics are very different from yours and the world. We are not at all collapsing much as you would think. We have survived worst.

Absurd?

The uncouth but treacherous disciple of Jinnah, the founder of the so-called Islamic state, Pakistan. But lacking Jinnah's education and grooming, Khandaker Mostak, had been used as a dupe by the imperialist forces who exploited his naked political ambition. Due to his unenlightened character and opportunist bent of mind, Mostak was more machiavellian than Jinnah. Although Jinnah (personally secular) used Islam to compete with Nehru (he could never be the premier of India) and instigated communal riots to achieve his political goals, he did not involve in the murder of his political colleagues
Traitors

JINNAH INDIA – PARTITION – INDEPENDENCE - Google Books

State, Nation and Ethnicity in Contemporary South Asia - Ishtiaq Ahmed - Google Books

 

[jaibi]

I am a member of the Evolutionary Psychology editorial board. I'm Pakistani. There is not a single article from your country about the subject. Your countrymen send the highest number of articles to my nation's journals for publications. I'm not trying to one-up, you, but things are very different.

Pakistanis are taught about evolution, btw, pick any F.Sc book and you would know.

My request is please stop believing propaganda.

i have a very honest question.
Around 8th or 9th std we were taught about theory of evolution. there is a general accesptance thats how we are in existance. they do teach about lamarckism and and one of 2 theories before comeing to Darwinism.
In pak do they teach this? or in science class do they say tat we come from A and E.
For Pak nationals in other countries how do you shield your kids from evolution?



for all practical purposes most of the mulsim maojority states are religon based nation states.

 

[sovcomflot]

which propganda book are you reading?
Because our Quaid said:
1. The state would be
completely impartial to religion of the individual.
2. The state where every citizen would be equal and there would be no distinction between
citizen on the basis of
faith or caste or creed.

Yet ,there are barely minorities left and I have seen the plight of those who remain.Its a total shame in the name of humanity.

 

[AHAM BRIHMASMI]

which propganda book are you reading?
Because our Quaid said:
1. The state would be
completely impartial to religion of the individual.
2. The state where every citizen would be equal and there would be no distinction between
citizen on the basis of
faith or caste or creed.

seriously ? if that was the case then what was the need of partition ?? we were living that way since long.
and Jinah is still the most revered person in pakistan. then what went wrong ?? why you cleansed your minorities including ahmadias ( what you done to your single Nobel winer is not a hidden thing). dont you think that those quotes were HATHI KE DANT ???

 

[Alpha1]

i have a very honest question.
Around 8th or 9th std we were taught about theory of evolution. there is a general accesptance thats how we are in existance. they do teach about lamarckism and and one of 2 theories before comeing to Darwinism.
In pak do they teach this? or in science class do they say tat we come from A and E.
For Pak nationals in other countries how do you shield your kids from evolution?

This pic is from a 12th grade biology book, we are taugh about evolution from 6th grade

 

[jetti]

This pic is from a 12th grade biology book, we are taugh about evolution from 6th grade

but doesnt that go contrary to your religon. If you flout your religon then the very reason of existance of your country stops?

 

[Alpha1]

Yet ,there are barely minorities left and I have seen the plight of those who remain.Its a total shame in the name of humanity.

Maybe many of them converted

 

[sovcomflot]

Maybe many of them converted

or raped and forced to convert.

You people and Saudis put me to shame.A Blight on humanity and Islam you are.

 

[jetti]

Maybe many of them converted

no i dont think so.
people dont convert unless compelled orr induced. only vrey rarely this happens voluntarily

 

[cloud_9]

Your countrymen seem to think that as India is now a 'stronger' power they deserve to gain a upper hand in the situation which I take would be that India can dictate what the solution is and frankly that's not happening.

India may not be a stronger power but it is in a better position on the bargaining table than it was 60 years back and we have every right to use our current position to get the maximum out of this deal.

Peace is being pushed from the Pakistani side and there will be no headway until you bring to the table something better than our current demands.