The Tesla Bubble Is Bursting

[Jacob Martin]

You'd still need the infrastructure that would sell Hydrogen. It's far more controversial to open them up in residential areas than a corner kiosk in a public garage with an electrical outlet. They'd probably have to deal with similar zoning rules/laws for gas stations.

Yup. That's right. My optimism about hydrogen fuel cells is based on the fact that research breakthroughs in both catalyst and membranes may dramatically reduce the price of fuel cells. Use of platinum is a major minus point making them exorbitantly expensive.

Cool new material could make fuel cells cheaper | Science/AAAS | News

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/10/151007144845.htm

Though availability of hydrogen outlets is a major bottleneck right now.

Fuel cells are worthless. Nobody wants to use Hydrogen.

While I agree with the rest of your post, I think that fuel cell technology has not been given a proper chance yet. Advances in material research are showing great promise. But of course, unless they can employ these innovations quickly, the game would have moved on.

 

[Aestu]

Tesla cars are consistently highly rated by professional drivers and consumers alike. Their car safety ratings in particular are the best in the industry, well above their 'established' contemporaries. If that isn't knowing how to make a car, then I don't know what is. They are always on backlog, supply cannot keep up with their demand.

Harsh truth: A good car is a reliable car, not a safe car. Teslas are notoriously unreliable.

How safe was the VW Bug or so many best-selling American cars? Did people buy older Volvos because they were super-safe or because you could run the odometer into the millions?

We will see. I do not claim to know the future.

Don't you? Your entire position is speculative.

Batteries can be made out of any anode and cathodes. You don't need to use Lithium. Metal-Air batteries using Beryellium show great promise, although any of these Metal–air electrochemical cell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia types of batteries show great promise.

Water/air batteries are primary cells (non-rechargeable) and reprocessing primary cells is totally uneconomical. It's a dead-end technology.

The 'old' consensus about ICE cars, was that as oil began to become scarce, the price would go up and alternatives would be used. Hydrogen was considered the consensus new fuel, as it mirrored the old models of pumps and large energy corporations deciding the future. What they couldn't predict is that the consumer sentiment and demand for electric cars would be so high, while advancements in hydrogen production and fuel cells would lag so far behind. Of the major car companies, only Toyota and Honda are serious about it anymore. Everyone else is shifting towards EVs, with major consumer models being planned by every single car company. If nobody is making Hydrogen cars, then there will be no demand for hydrogen production, and hydrogen prices won't go down and money won't be invested into it.

The only reason this hasn't happened is that new sources of petroleum have been discovered and social environmentalism lost momentum.

The Nissan Leaf was the death keel for hydrogen cars, showing the mass appeal for an EV car, despite the limited range and higher cost. Imagine if the range were extended and the cost lowered, as is planned with future models.

What planet are you on? The Leaf sucked. It didn't get anywhere near its advertised mileage in practice and had horrible reliability issues. You can see unsold Leafs from two years ago at any Nissan dealership.

 

[Jai Bharat]

What planet are you on? The Leaf sucked. It didn't get anywhere near its advertised mileage in practice and had horrible reliability issues. You can see unsold Leafs from two years ago at any Nissan dealership.

The one where a big brand company like Porche is betting the entire future of their company on electric vehicles, and where other brands like BMW talk about having a full EV line-up in the future.

Tribute to tomorrow. Porsche Concept Study Mission E. | Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG

Porsche Concept E will be a Tesla Model S competitor and they are claiming by the time it rolls out in 2019 they are going to get +500 km a charge and a fast charging ability that gets them to 80% of charge in <15min, as well as inductive charging so your car can automatically charge wireless from a plate under it when you park.. Every major company is going all-in on EV after watching the success of the Leaf and Model S. Our opinions on a forum don't really matter, the big companies have collectively decided that EV cars are going to be the future after seeing initial consumer response. Where I am from, I see tons of Leafs on the road everyday, I don't know what your experience is with them, but they are very popular here. Hydrogen is still in concept phase, with no cars on the road to be found, no refuelling stations, and no companies apart from Honda and Toyota even bothering to unveil concepts anymore.

 

[Aestu]

I'm not contesting that EVs/FCVs are the future, simply whether Tesla will dominate that future or even have a place in it. My point was and is that their approach is wrong and that the company is nothing more than the cult of Musk and a heavily subsidized scam.

 

[Jai Bharat]

I'm not contesting that EVs/FCVs are the future, simply whether Tesla will dominate that future or even have a place in it. My point was and is that their approach is wrong and that the company is nothing more than the cult of Musk and a heavily subsidized scam.

Well, Tesla is currently dominating the high end market, has the biggest investments going forward with their Gigafactory, and currently the best technologies for EVs. I am willing to bet that they had a bright future ahead of them in the EV market, but they could also fall to the wayside and end up sidelined against other competitors. Only time will tell, and it really depends on what the competitors are going to come up with. Also, Elon Musk is a hack, but he knows how to get investment money and shill well enough for talented people into believing in his 'vision' and end up underpaid and overworked at his companies so he has that going for him.

 

[Faiez]

Pure hydrogen gas is far too reactive to be found in natural environments, unlike natural gas. It would have to be made from using techniques like water electrolysis, a process that is inefficient and expensive.

Fun Fact : The most common (commercial) method for the manufacture of Hydrogen is from fossil fuels themselves and it's not as expensive as electrolysis.
So actually, hydrogen is not all that expensive and inefficient to produce. Fossil fuels are hydrocarbons. Do you know what that means ? It means that these substances mainly contain carbon and hydrogen. Although the process for producing hydrogen this way does produce I think about the same amount of carbon dioxide as would be created if the fuel was simply combusted/burnt.

Tesla is currently dominating the high end market

stats plz ?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

LOL! Ah so much has happened in the 6 years since this thread....

Elon Musk ends 2021 as the richest person in the world | The National

The wealthiest people on the planet became 'super billionaires' last year after adding a combined $1 trillion to their personal fortunes

www.thenationalnews.com

 

[Get Ya Wig Split]

Op is a loser nothing to see here

 

[GumNaam]

LOL! Ah so much has happened....

as a rule of thumb, I never buy brand new cars off the lot, just don't see any sense in buying a new car that looses $5000 off its msrp as soon as you drive it off the lotI having said that, I wouldn't go for a tesla if it was the last car on earth, would rather make do with a friggin' horse, at least they are reliable!!! I is just AMAZING how many used teslas, barely 2 to 3 years old, are being sold by the owners. its 2022 and if you go to the "cars for sale" section on craigslist and filter by "electric fuel", it is mind boggling that you get flooded by posts of 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 used teslas, jaguars and leafs for sale with 30k miles or less. I mean, they've barely been used, why are the owners already getting rid of them? there has GOT to be something seriously wrong with teslas that people are wanting to get rid of 'em so soon after purchase. a close second is the nissan leaf followed by the crappy electric jaguar! I own two electric cars, won't say which ones but they are NEITHER teslas NOR leafs NOR jaguars...I did my homework, found the best selling electric vehicles of the course of last 3 years and researched up which one of those are for sale the least in the "used cars" market; those are the ones I went for since their owners are OBVIOUSLY keeping them. since they are our daily commuter cars, after having driven both of them well over 20k miles after having purchased them , I can say that I made the right decision, they are virtually problem free, no issues at all. while I've seen tesla, jaguar and leaf owners complain about all kinds of motor and battery heating issues after barely having driven them 10k miles.

 

[F-22Raptor]

LOL! Ah so much has happened in the 6 years since this thread....

Elon Musk ends 2021 as the richest person in the world | The National

The wealthiest people on the planet became 'super billionaires' last year after adding a combined $1 trillion to their personal fortunes

www.thenationalnews.com

This thread takes me back. Hard to believe I’ve been here almost 8 years.

 

[Gripen9]

LOL! Ah so much has happened in the 6 years since this thread....

Elon Musk ends 2021 as the richest person in the world | The National

The wealthiest people on the planet became 'super billionaires' last year after adding a combined $1 trillion to their personal fortunes

www.thenationalnews.com

Should have added to my position during this past week's dip!

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

its 2022 and if you go to the "cars for sale" section on craigslist and filter by "electric fuel", it is mind boggling that you get flooded by posts of 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021 used teslas, jaguars and leafs for sale with 30k miles or less. I mean, they've barely been used, why are the owners already getting rid of them?

They are fetching a good price for sellers

Trailing price hikes on new Teslas, prices on used Tesla models have soared

Used Tesla prices rose with a rising tide of sticker prices on new Teslas through 2021, according to an report from Recurrent.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[GumNaam]

They are fetching a good price for sellers

Trailing price hikes on new Teslas, prices on used Tesla models have soared

Used Tesla prices rose with a rising tide of sticker prices on new Teslas through 2021, according to an report from Recurrent.

www.greencarreports.com

not really. selling a 2019 tesla today for $45k is hardly a good price that the owner paid $90k less than 3 years ago. that's a loss of $45k in value in barely 3 years. in contrast, my 2019 EVs, which cost $40k 3 years ago brand new, I bought used for 28k, $12k loss of value. see the difference? and most owners of my EVs keep em since they are virtually maintenance and problem free. teslas are garbage.

 

[F-22Raptor]

Should have added to my position during this past week's dip!

Teslas brutally oversold. Even after todays 10.5% gain it’s still way oversold. Teslas going to have another huge year in 2022.

LOL! Ah so much has happened in the 6 years since this thread....

Elon Musk ends 2021 as the richest person in the world | The National

The wealthiest people on the planet became 'super billionaires' last year after adding a combined $1 trillion to their personal fortunes

www.thenationalnews.com

Op is a loser nothing to see here

Should have added to my position during this past week's dip!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1488260813941055489

https://twitter.com/x/status/1488263375272693760

 

[Gripen9]

not really. selling a 2019 tesla today for $45k is hardly a good price that the owner paid $90k less than 3 years ago. that's a loss of $45k in value in barely 3 years. in contrast, my 2019 EVs, which cost $40k 3 years ago brand new, I bought used for 28k, $12k loss of value. see the difference? and most owners of my EVs keep em since they are virtually maintenance and problem free. teslas are garbage.

Are you talking about a 2019 Tesla S? Can you share any data where you can get a 2019 Tesla S for 45k?