The Status of Pakistan's Radar Network During US raid

[mymeaningislion]

 

[Riz]

Jagtay rehna, sadt tat ba rehna A new message by Pakistan Arm forces to the people of Pakistan..........

 

[ANG]

Hi, according to this report, the PAF radars were active and detected a packet of aircraft moving towards the border, but they did not enter Pakistani airspace.

There are simply to many contradicting statements being made by the PAF, radars were off, no they were actually on, stealth helicopters were used, etc. Makes for interesting conspiracy theories!

PAF detected US planes near Jalalabad border before OBL operation - GEO.tv

 

[JonAsad]

PAF detected US planes near Jalalabad border before OBL operation

ISLAMABAD: An initial investigation report has revealed that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) radars installed in Peshawar and Risalpur were functioning properly on May 2 and the movement of some half-a-dozen planes was detected near the Jalalabad border at 11 pm before the US helicopters entered Abbottabad to kill Osama bin Laden.

“One aircraft was identified as a US AWACS and the remaining five were recognised as F-18 jets of the US. These planes flew near the Pakistani border, but did not cross into the airspace of Pakistan,” the report added.

Meanwhile, the PAF formed a special investigation committee to probe into the violation of Pakistan’s airspace by the US helicopters to kill Osama bin Laden. It is the first committee formed to investigate the incident. The team will see how the Pakistani forces remained ignorant about the presence of foreign helicopters.

The committee, being headed by a group captain, has started its work by checking the record of radars thoroughly and interviewing officials who were on duty when the US helicopters violated Pakistan’s airspace.

“More such committees will be formed to unveil the facts about the Abbottabad operation,” the sources added. The committee will investigate how Pakistan’s radar system, which could detect the flights outside Pakistan’s limit, could not notice the US helicopters, which entered into Pakistan and remained there for hours. The officers of PAF will also examine the aspect whether the planes, traced by the radars, were meant to divert the attention of Pakistani forces.
PAF detected US planes near Jalalabad border before OBL operation - GEO.tv

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Jagtay rehna, sadt tat ba rehna A new message by Pakistan Arm forces to the people of Pakistan..........

You got it wrong. That is the message from the people of Pakistan to the Paksitan Armed Forces. The people of Pakistan don't protect the PAF, its the other way around!

 

[Jango]

Were the F/A-18 pilots given the orders to shoot down PAF fighters if they tried to intercept?

apparently they were!

 

[mughaljee]

The Pakistan's Radar were working but our PAF & Spy Agencies actual in sweet dreams.

 

[Jango]

there were refullers....USS carl winson....growlers ....hornets adn all sort of mumbo jumbo equipment in the area....

 

[umair86pk]

we should beef up our defences as soon as possible as these yanks will do this type of misadventure again.

 

[Developereo]

Hi, according to this report, the PAF radars were active and detected a packet of aircraft moving towards the border, but they did not enter Pakistani airspace.

There are simply to many contradicting statements being made by the PAF, radars were off, no they were actually on, stealth helicopters were used, etc. Makes for interesting conspiracy theories!

PAF detected US planes near Jalalabad border before OBL operation - GEO.tv

Not really. This was already covered in this post:

Operation Geronimo and PAF
May 7, 2011

by Kaiser Tufail

With the latest brief that appeared today inThe News (also available on Facebook - PAF Falcons Welcome to Facebook - Log In, Sign Up or Learn More), PAF's case has been totally messed up and it has been put on the back foot unnecessarily. It was simply bad PR; an official press release would have been far better, with no possibility of laymen's interpretation and distortion of facts by uninformed journalists about matters technical. I have been following the matter over the past few days and would like to offer the factual story as far as is known, without trying to cover any mistakes of my parent service.

On the night of 2 May, four near-stealth/low observable MH-60 helicopters ingressed unobserved from Bagram to Abbotabad. (Some US websites displaying animated action include 2 Chinooks, which, to my mind does not make sense as it nullifies the rationale of the other two low observable MH-60s, unless the Chinooks also had stealth features). The helicopter package was able to exploit the blind areas inherent in radars over hilly/broken terrain, while their own low-observable structure helped no less. (It is not true that PAF radars were being given a rest to conserve their life, as has been reported in The News.) It must, however, be noted that it is the PAF's AEW Erieyes that are not operated round-the-clock during peacetime, else we would quickly wear them out.

A package of 6-7 support aircraft including EC-130E/H, MC-130, AC-130, E-3 AWACS and, most ominously, a pair of fighters of unknown type, were orbiting in FATA area. It was easy to masquerade this package with the usual retinue of half a dozen Predators, Reapers and Global Surveyors that have been flying in the same area, with PAF clearance, over the last several years. There was no question of this package arousing any suspicion on this particular night.

As the operation got under way, no Pak Army unit was present. US assessment was that local Army units in Abbotabad would be able to react not before one hour at the earliest (to take orders and draw their weapons). It was also surmised that armed soldiers at quarter guards, guard rooms and sentry posts would not leave their beats.

When the firing started, local commanders at Abbotabad informed GHQ, who in turn got in touch with AHQ. The latter immediately scrambled a pair of F-16s but by the time these got to Abbotabad in about 15 minutes, the operation was over and the helicopters had departed. Without any help from ground radar, the F-16s did not know where to look, as they had no idea that the incursion had been from the west. As a matter of fact, an intrusion from the east was uppermost in their minds. The helicopters once again flew low, through radar gaps and were not spotted either by ground radar or the F-16s. The reality dawned too late that we do not have an antidote to a stealth raiding package. USA carrying out such an attack was the biggest surprise for the PAF as well as the Army.

In some ways, the PAF F-16s were lucky not to have picked the helicopters on their radars, or else the nearby patrolling US fighters would have made short work of them with their long range missiles, what with full communications and radar jamming support available to them.

To say that it was a failure of the PAF to react effectively is completely incorrect and unfair. It was simply beyond its technical means to handle fifth-generation warfare vs USA. If it is a failure, it is at the national policy level whereby US was compelled to sideline its much-ballyhooed ally because of trust deficit.

PAF Falcons Forums • View topic - Operation Geronimo and PAF

 

[Pfpilot]

we should beef up our defences as soon as possible as these yanks will do this type of misadventure again.

We could beef up our defences all we like, but the unfortunate reality is, we will never do anything to oppose the Americans. Partly due to our leadership being utterly directionless and partly due to the overwhelming superiority of the Americans, if we knocked one of their fighters out of the air, they would obliterate our entire airforce.

 

[mymeaningislion]

guys pakistan only need radars. anti stealth one and just this is the point of difference other wise we are good and dont think that america can fight another ground war because a country having debt of 4.5 trillion dolllar and taking loans of 3 billion on daily basis. i dont think for bankers it will be beneficial. and with the help of chine a new anti stealth radar is soon to come. because in 2007 a anti stealth radar copy was received by PAF and was sent to begeing so dont worry and as far as we as a nation are united no one can harm us. so people shouting here and there should take it with courage and dont act like cowards shouting here and there. in war u demage the enemy and sometime enemy succeed so in spite of crying make a strategy that is the civilian work together to better build up the economy and support its military then if negligence is found u can ask for resignation and other stuff... and for common people first try to filter out your internal evil and then point out others.....including my self....so Believe in ALLAH and you will face and destroy each and everyone against you. as UNITY IS STRENGTH....

 

[PAKIFALCON]

Sometimes I feel like laughing on the comments of some intelluctual geeks on this forum. Let me ask all you intellutual people on this forum a question who is running our beloved country ? ..... Yes thats right its the one & only the Gr8 Asif Ali Zardari. What do you expect from a country which is run by a president called Zardari. Honestly do you believe all the top brass sitting in top positions be it political or armed forces have a slight love for this country. Their lust for $$ have made them betray their motherland what else do you expect from them. Am 101% sure that our goverment knew about the opertaion on 2 MAY. Now they are just giving lame excuses to save their sorry a$$ from public backlash. Take the example of drone strikes how many times the government has Condemned the actions of US in pak territory but does anything happens ? no nothing. The US replies the government with more drone strikes & our political top brass just sits on their FAT RICH A$$E$ giving statements after statements. I just pray to ALLAH ( SWT ) for peace in our beloved country & to put some sense in these jahil politicians so that they should have the gutts to say enough is enough to USA the Grandfather of all Terrorism.

 

[niaz]

We are forgetting an important fact. Nearly all of our military assets including radar are of non-Pakistani origin; be it Western, Russian or Chinese. Even the Al Khalid has Ukrainian engine & Chinese gun. Avionics in particular are all foreign. Maker shall always know the weakness and blind spot of the Radar and thus could find means to evade it.

Besides, there is no such thing as fool proof Radar. US Customs with all the sophisticated Radar, AWACS and ELINT capability, is unable to fully stop the inflow of drugs from the Mexican border. Therefore we must understand that a repeat of the Operation such as for Osama cannot be ruled out if US is certain that her interest will be better served.

Most important point here is that CIA was of the opinion that that if they involved CIA, Osama may be tipped off and disappear once more. Record of Pakistani security agencies for failure to catch perpetrators of high profile actions such assassination of Benazir or those attacking the Sri Lankan Team; not to speak of countless other similar actions gives a clear indication that all is not well with ISI and other agencies. It is not enough to say that ISI has caught many second tier Al Qaida leaders, all the top leadership of Al-Qaida as well as Taliban such as Mulla Omer remain at large. Anyone not blinded by passions will acknowledge that elements of Pakistan society have greater sympathy with criminals than for Pakistanis because these people exploit name of Islam.

My dear compatriots, we have to put our house in order. Let us ask ourselves why was Osama in Pakistan in the first place? If we let Haqqani and Baitullah Mahsood violate our sovereignty, other powers will always be tempted.

To set aside even more Pakistan’s national assets for buying more radars at the expense of welfare of the people is the wrong way to go. Does anyone honestly believe that that there is no support network for Al-Qaida or TTP in Pakistan? Don’t you think that elimination of the bad apples from within the security services is the least cost option?

I repeat my assertion that we need to make ourselves economically strong so that we can show two fingers to anyone who threatens Pakistan’s interests. For example, if we didnot need US Aid, we could ask US to cut its Embassy staff to half and stop issuing visas to US citizens in protest against this action. This cannot happen while we have suicide bombings and people blowing pipelines every day because good law and order situation is a must for economic progress.

We already spend Rs 442-billion on Defence, Rs 235-billion in subsidies to PIA, WAPDA & Steel Mill against an expenditure of Rs 5-billion on Education and Rs 16-billion on Health. (Per 2010-2011 budget) How much more is required for Defence and where is money going to come from?

You don’t want to pay taxes but you want to buy expensive Radar (assuming people will sell to you). How can you be militarily strong if you depend on US Aid to balance your budget?

If my countrymen can’t understand this simple fact, Pakistan has no future.

 

[Jango]

^^^^^....completely agree my man....read somewhere that only 10 to 15% people pay taxes in pakistan....the common man needs to stand up as well rather than blaming the govt for loadshedding after getting a kunda connection!!!