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The Shia-Sunni divide

well hardliners like Hitler or other mullah don't count as educated class. They follow their own personal understanding about object or subject. People like them are hard to convince and change their thought. Well i don't count them educated or muslims.

Agreed. I was raised in an extremely moderate family. My sister wore jeans; One of my parents was Shia, the other Sunni, yet there was this constant undertone of "Muslim superiority" in everything. It is that subtle undertone that I do not care for, which I think needs to be eradicated completely from our culture and society, and for that I suggested that great emphasis be placed on humanistic values and civic responisbility when it comes to teaching our youth. Not every family shares the beliefs I narrated, not every person goes through the same degree of introspection and change, the greatest "education" we could provide is a sense of respect and tolerance for our fellow man and this wonderful spinning rock we reside on.
 
Perhaps we should start moving towards an end of the philosophy of "Islam is an entire way of life". What does that imply after all? That not only is our morality and spirituality determined by one interpretation of our great religion, but that by propagating it into the political sphere and government, we inevitably sow the seeds of intolerance, by insisting that the one interpretation be adhered to by others.

If our Islamic beliefs are used for spiritual and moral guidance only, with no expectations that the government should apply them to society at large, then perhaps we won't continue to fester inside when we see those we would call "apostates" or "infidels". When you have no expectations from anyone but yourself, to profess and practice the one true faith (Shia, Sunni, Ahmadi, Hindu, whatever...), it is perhaps easier to be at peace with yourself, and not worry about the kalima that is slightly different, or who was the true successor to the prophet.

Great and beautiful words!
 
instead of fighting like idiots we should accept that history cannot rewritten
we are all muslims we should get closer to each other
 
care to explain
i wanted to stay out of the thread as it wasn't about comparing sizes.but discussing about tiny difference that have caused the Muslims to become nothing.and people were actually discussing it in a civilized manner without resorting to attacks.

Attacking and killing each other over small tiny difference have gotten us Muslims no where.so i will not resort to rubbish as no matter what or whom you talk about during the prophets times his companions are not to be talked about without paying the due respect.:hitwall:


I was asking a question about shia's and there so called love for hazrat ali.
It is a simple question.... do the shia's read the same kalima as hazrat ali ?
If not then how can the shia's say they are following ali and his way's if they can not even read the same kalima.
 
How do we know what kalima he read??

Well unless the prophet pbuh gave a diffrent kalima to hazrat ali that contained the names hussan and hussein and the rest of the ummah a diffrent version then i an pretty sure he would have read ther kalima that all muslims read.



What difference does it make if they don't? I don't pray five times a day, an omission by many people around the world no doubt, so does that mean I, and all those others, do not love my religion?

Who said that you do not love your faith? you might not pray five times a day but your supposed to if your a muslim.
 
Well unless the prophet pbuh gave a diffrent kalima to hazrat ali that contained the names hussan and hussein and the rest of the ummah a diffrent version then i an pretty sure he would have read ther kalima that all muslims read.

What is the origin of the kalima? Is it in the Quran? What does it matter what they include as long as they also recognize Allah and Muhammad?

Who said that you do not love your faith? you might not pray five times a day but your supposed to if your a muslim.

You posed the question "How can the shia's say they love ali when they do not even read the same kalima has he did." My answer was that they can probably love him just like those millions of Muslims love Allah and Islam despite not following every single tenet of Islam.
 
I was asking a question about shia's and there so called love for hazrat ali.
It is a simple question.... do the shia's read the same kalima as hazrat ali ?
If not then how can the shia's say they are following ali and his way's if they can not even read the same kalima.

Historically speaking, Kalima Tawheed is " La ilaha ill Allah Mohammad ar rasull Allah ". This was what existed until the advent of Fatimids Caliphate. It was probaly Ismaili Caliph Al Mustansir ( 1036 to 1094) who added the words 'Ali an wali allah wasi -e rasullah was khalifatuho bila fasl' to the Kalima. I also had the occasion to read a book by Sh Al Mufid ( circa 1000 AD) one of the early scholars of Jafri Shia doctrine. He does not include "Ali an wali allah " anywhere.

Since I have both Shia and Sunni family members, I have asked this question many times. The answer I am given is that this addition doesnot in any way alter the basic tenent of Islam; that is, declaring that there is no god but Allah and that Mohammad ( PBUH) is his prophet. When one adds something to it declaring his/her love for Hazrat Ali ( RAA), there is nothing wrong in it.

IMO Shia- ism is a cult of Hazart Ali. The origin were political ( battle of Siffin ). If Ali ( RAA) had not been assassinated, which resulted in the rise of the Umayyads, we would have a different situation today.

My problems is and I am thinking alound; muslims in general at this point in time, consider that people who had met the holy Prohet ( PBUH) in real life and even the Tabieens ( those who had met those who had met the Prophet ( PBUH) were extremely pious people and had under gone a purification of soul ( Tazkia tun nafs). If this belief is correct than how come muslims rose up against Hazrat Osman ( RAA) and killed him in Medina ??. Also how come people such as Zubair ( RAA), among the ten who had been promised Heaven, after voting for Ali ( RAA) against Osman ( RAA) later took part in the battle of the Camel ( even though he later repented). Also how could Sehabas accept son of Abu Sufian ( Muwayyia) when he actually rebelled against Hazrat Ali ( RAA); one of the Rashideen, as their ruler.

I am mentally unable to reconcile this dichotomy, that is why I dont claim to be either Shia or Sunni and prefer to be just an ordinary muslim.

I can only conclude that Shia - Sunni divide is a result of political rivalry between Hashmiites and Omayyaads, which has pre Islamic roots. Omayaads managed to regain their pre-eminence after the untimely assassination of Hazrat Ali ( RAA) and Hashmites took their revenge 80 years later thru progeny of Hazrat Abdullah in Abbas. However, politically astitute Abassides; despite persecuting Imam Abu Hanifa ( Al Mansur) and later Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal ( Al Mamun), decided not to adopt Jafri fiqah as state religion as this would have meant ascendency of the house of Hazrat Ali over the house of Hazarat Abbas.
That is why 80% of world muslim population follow Sunni doctrine.

This is my view and I could be totally wrong.
 
How can the shia's say they love ali when they do not even read the same kalima has he did.
After the passing away of the 'Holy Prophet' Medinites gathered in a place called 'Saqifa benu Saad' While Hazart Ali and all of the Hashmites were busy preparing the funeral ( Hoply Prophet PBUH was bathed by Hazart Ali) a party of Meccans were sent to Saqifa Benu Saad to find out what was happening.

Our holy Prophet ( PBUH) had been invited to Medina by the Ansaars who accepted him as their Ruler. The contract expired with his passing away. Hazrat Abu Bakr and Hazrat Omar were among those sent by the Meccans to inquire. They found that Ansaars were meeting to decide on the next head of the government. Hazrat Omar successfully agrued that the head should be a Quraish and nominated Hazart Abu Bakr. First Caliph had therfore been chosen before the holy Prophet ( PBUH) was buried. It is debated by Shia historians whether Hazart Ali and Salman Farsi actually did Ba'at but there was no documented reaction from the Hashmites. One English historian has written that it may be because Hazrat Ali; thru his father Abu Talib and being the fIrst Hashmite to accept Islam was thus leader of the Hashmites; was only 33 years old and considered too young ??

Prophet of islam dosnt consider him young when he trusts him with his own life.
prophet of islam dosnt consider him young when he takes prophets place in his bed clearly knowing there is people(lets not name names here we all no whom)out side looking for the prophet to kill him.
These are just few of the examples where prophet of islam is not considering hazrat ali not to be young.
but off course thats not important for caliphat what the prophet was thinking.



Mr debong can you read the above article clearly.
let me explain to you what i see here .
Its pretty clear the priorities of 2 here one is taken care of the prophet of Islams funeral.
Other is more worried about who gets to govern.
you wanna discus kalima lets discuss this first
As kalima is way beyond your understanding.
MY self i recite the kalima that way to acknowledge the injustice thats clearly is being done to hazrat Ali.

Islam says if u see injustice being done do some thing about it.if you cant do any thing about it say some thing about it if u cant say some thing about it think its the injustice.but never accept the injustice
I as a shia Muslim is in no position to do any thing about the injustice that was done AT THAT TIME.so i say some thing about it.


same way where shias invested in the creation of Pakistan.when jam-ate salami was against the creation of Pakistan.
shias invested heavily and started the industrial base in Pakistan.shias for the first few years covered the wages of Pakistan civil service.including the armed service budgets.
but i love it every time the question comes up if Pakistan and Iran was to fight whom would shias will fight with.
yet no one is acknowledging that Pakistan is being brought to civil war by none other then whabies.who openly are killing Pakistani army personals.yet shias loyalty to Pakistan is always questioned.whom would the wahabi stand with if House of Saud and Pakistan was to fight.iam sure i don't have to tell you the answer to that one.

Most of shia Islam follows quran and the prophet.wahabisum follows self created hazard's.
 
Historically speaking, Kalima Tawheed is " La ilaha ill Allah Mohammad ar rasull Allah ". This was what existed until the advent of Fatimids Caliphate. It was probaly Ismaili Caliph Al Mustansir ( 1036 to 1094) who added the words 'Ali an wali allah wasi -e rasullah was khalifatuho bila fasl' to the Kalima. I also had the occasion to read a book by Sh Al Mufid ( circa 1000 AD) one of the early scholars of Jafri Shia doctrine. He does not include "Ali an wali allah " anywhere.

Since I have both Shia and Sunni family members, I have asked this question many times. The answer I am given is that this addition doesnot in any way alter the basic tenent of Islam; that is, declaring that there is no god but Allah and that Mohammad ( PBUH) is his prophet. When one adds something to it declaring his/her love for Hazrat Ali ( RAA), there is nothing wrong in it.

IMO Shia- ism is a cult of Hazart Ali. The origin were political ( battle of Siffin ). If Ali ( RAA) had not been assassinated, which resulted in the rise of the Umayyads, we would have a different situation today.

My problems is and I am thinking alound; muslims in general at this point in time, consider that people who had met the holy Prohet ( PBUH) in real life and even the Tabieens ( those who had met those who had met the Prophet ( PBUH) were extremely pious people and had under gone a purification of soul ( Tazkia tun nafs). If this belief is correct than how come muslims rose up against Hazrat Osman ( RAA) and killed him in Medina ??. Also how come people such as Zubair ( RAA), among the ten who had been promised Heaven, after voting for Ali ( RAA) against Osman ( RAA) later took part in the battle of the Camel ( even though he later repented). Also how could Sehabas accept son of Abu Sufian ( Muwayyia) when he actually rebelled against Hazrat Ali ( RAA); one of the Rashideen, as their ruler.

I am mentally unable to reconcile this dichotomy, that is why I dont claim to be either Shia or Sunni and prefer to be just an ordinary muslim.

I can only conclude that Shia - Sunni divide is a result of political rivalry between Hashmiites and Omayyaads, which has pre Islamic roots. Omayaads managed to regain their pre-eminence after the untimely assassination of Hazrat Ali ( RAA) and Hashmites took their revenge 80 years later thru progeny of Hazrat Abdullah in Abbas. However, politically astitute Abassides; despite persecuting Imam Abu Hanifa ( Al Mansur) and later Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal ( Al Mamun), decided not to adopt Jafri fiqah as state religion as this would have meant ascendency of the house of Hazrat Ali over the house of Hazarat Abbas.
That is why 80% of world muslim population follow Sunni doctrine.

This is my view and I could be totally wrong.
Conspiracy of 'Abdullah bin Saba

'Abdullah bin Saba, a clever Yemenite Jew who had accepted Islam only for self-interest and to destroy peace of the Islamic state, took the leading part in the agitation against Hadrat Uthman (R.A.). He was having a number of followers who had accepted Islam only to create disharmony among the Muslims.
He invented quite a few beliefs and started to preach them. He based his beliefs upon the love of the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam) and his family (Ahli-Bait). Some of the beliefs invented by Abdullah bin Saba were

(1) Every prophet left a "Wasi" (administrator) behind him, and the "Wasi" was his relative. For example Prophet Musa (Moses) made Harun his "Wasi" (administrator). Consequently the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam) must have a "Wasi", and his "Wasi" was Hadrat 'Ali (R.A.) Being the "Wasi", Hadrat 'Ali (R.A.) was the only rightful man to be the "Khalifah". He went to the extent of declaration that the "Khilafat" (caliphate) of Hadrat Abu Bakr,'Umar and Uthman (R.A.) was unlawful. The only way to redress matters was to remove the then Caliph, Hadrat Uthman(R.A.).

(2) He said that it was strange for the Muslims to believe that Jesus ('Alaihis Salam) would descend from the heaven to follow Islam and to fight for Muslims against non-believers, and not to believe that the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam) would not come back. So he believed that the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam) being superior to Jesus as the Last Prophet and the Leader of all prophets, would also come back.

(3) He started to give wrong commentaries of various verses of the Holy Qur'an and twisted their meaning in favour of his beliefs.

He preached his false self-coined beliefs secretly and selected the main headquarters of Muslim military power, Kufa, Basrah, Syria and Egypt as centres of his activities. He picked up a number of newly converted Muslims who lent an easy ear to what he said. Some simple Muslims who were having certain complaints against various governors also joined him. It was the real cause of all the troubles.

First of all he visited Medina to note the internal conditions of the capital. He pretended to be a very pious Muslim but could not get much followers over there. Then he came to Basrah and started to preach his beliefs and incite the public against Muslim officers. At that time Hadrat'Abdullah bin 'Amir was the Governor. Hearing about his activities, he called him and made certain enquiries because of which he was frightened and left Basrah leaving his followers and workers over there under the supervision of Hakim bin Hublah, one of the opponents of the governor.

From Basrah 'Abdullah bin Saba moved to Kufa and found it more suitable for his destructive activities. He pretended to be a very pious Muslim and because of his show of piety, a number of simple Muslims started to respect him. Then he preached his beliefs. Soon the governor of Kufa, Hadrat Sa'd bin al-'As was informed about him. He called him and warned him against his false beliefs and the damage he wanted to cause to the Muslim community. For this reason he left Kufa as well but made Ashtar as his deputy with instructions that the mission should be carried on secretly. From there he also went to Damascus but was not successful because of the strict control of Amir Mu'awiya (R.A.).

At last he selected Egypt and went there. The governor of Egypt, Hadrat'Abdullah bin Sarah was busy in the battles against Byzantine forces in North Africa and could not pay much attention to Ibn Saba's activities. He continued correspondence with his followers in Basrah, Kufa and other places from Egypt, and gave them directions for creating disorder and rivalry among the Muslims.

His followers, most of whom were pretending to be Muslims, used various techniques to increase their strength. They made a great show of piety and posed to be very pious worshippers. They incited people to forge complaints against the governors, various officers and the Khalifah as well. A new campaign against most of the officers was started by calling them irreligious, non-practical and bad Muslims. They sent forged letters from place to place which talked of injustice and unrest in the place from where they were posted. Such letters were usually sent to Sabaites (the followers of ‘Abdullah bin Saba) who read them out to as many people as possible. These forged letters also showed that Hadrat'Ali, Talha, and Zubair (Rid. A.) had full sympathy with them and with their mission and they disliked the "Khalifah", Hadrat Usman (R.A.). These were the three leading Companions in Medina at that time. Thus the people of various places began to believe that there was a widespread unrest and that the leading Companions wanted to remove the "Khalifah".

The Sabaites also worked throughout the state against various governors. They were the real cause of their removal from time to time. Sabaites were the main figures behind the removal of Hadrat Abu Musa Ash'ari from the governorship of Basrah at the time when their mission was not so popular. They spread rumours against Hadrat Walid bin 'Uqbah, governor of Kufa, and wrongly accused him of drinking liquor, and provided false witnesses against him because of which the "Khalifah" punished him. When he was punished they accused the "Khalifah" of punishing innocent Muslims. When Hadrat 'Abdullah bin'Amir (R.A.) was appointed as the governor of Basrah to replace Hadrat Abu Musa Ash'ari they incited the public against him and against the Khalifah that he was related to the Khalifah because of which he was given the governorship in his young age.

On one side they incited the people against the governors and on the other they accused the Khalifah. On the basis of complaints when Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) removed the governors they criticised him to be unduly kind to his relatives by appointing them to big posts.


Allegations against Hadrat Usman

(1) Hadrat Usman belonged to the family Banu Umayyah of Quraish. Before Islam there was rivalry between Banu Umayyah and Banu Hashim, the family of the Quraish to which the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu'alaihi wa Sallam) and Hadrat 'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) belonged. In Medina the Sabaites incited Banu Hashim against Banu Umayyah, actually against Hadrat Uthman, by saying that he was removing Hashmites from the big offices in order to support Umayyads and that he was unduly considerate to his family.

(2) They alleged that Hadrat Usman (R.A.) was extravagant and gave away money to his relatives, thus squandered the "Baitul Mal". The allegation was absolutely false. Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) was one of the wealthiest merchants in Arabia due to which people called him "Ghani" (The Richman). His liberal contributions towards the cause of Islam during the life of the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu'alaihi wa Sallam) have been mentioned in the preceding pages. His generosity continued in the same way during his caliphate. He spent his own money to help the poor, and also his relatives but never took anything wrongfully from the "Baitul Mal". Not only this he did not accept any allowance from the "Baitul Mal" for his services as Caliph. Through his addresses and speeches he clarified his position several times and gave satisfactorily explanations to the false accusations against him. Once he promised to give one fifth of the booty of Tripoli, the state share, to Hadrat'Abdullah bin Sarah, the then Governor of Egypt, for his invaluable services and the bravery he showed in the battles that took place between the Muslims and the Byzantine forces in North African territories. But the general public disapproved his view and he asked ‘Abdullah to return that share.

(3) One of the allegations, levelled by Sabaites against Hadrat Uthman was that he had burnt some copies of the Holy Qur'an. The fact was that Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) sent copies of the Holy Qur'an, written by Hadrat Zaid bin Thabit by the order of Hadrat Abu Bakr during his caliphate, to various places of the state and asked the governors and other officers to burn all those copies of the Holy Qur'an which were incomplete and were not in accordance with the Holy Qur'an compiled by Hadrat Zaid bin Thabit. This was done in order to avoid confusion between the Muslims because there were some copies of the Holy Qur'an at that time in which the order of the Surahs (Chapters) was not like that which was proposed by the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam) in accordance to Hadrat Gabriel instructions as commanded by Allah. Moreover, some of the copies existing at that time at various places other than Medina were lacking in some chapters, and were incomplete. For this reason Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) got copies made from the standard Book compiled during the time of Abu Bakr (R.A.) and sent them to various places. Differences had also arisen due to differences in handwritings so he also standardised the way of writing the Holy Qur'an. This has been considered as one of the greatest services of Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) rendered to Islam for which he has been given the title of "Jami'ul-Qur'an" (The Compiler of the Qur'an) although the Holy Qur'an was compiled in a book form by Hadrat Abu Bakr (R.A.) on the insistence of Hadrat 'Umar (R.A.).

(4) At this place I would like to mention something about Hadrat Abu Dharr Ghifari(R.A.) because this allegation is concerned with him. He was a well-known and pious Companion of the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam) who always kept aloof from the world and its riches. He was not in favour of accumulation of money and saving it. As regards the "Baitul Mal"(Public Treasury), he held the view that all the money should be spent for the welfare of Muslims as soon as it came through taxes etc. In Syria he started to publicise his opinion and a number of people followed him. Seeing this Hadrat Amir Mu'awiya wrote to Hadrat Uthman who recalled Hadrat Abu Dharr to Medina and then he retired to a village named Rabdhah near Medina.'Abdullah bin Saba tried to gain favour of Hadrat Abu Dharr(R.A.) when he was in Syria but he rebuked Ibn Saba and told him that the beliefs she was preaching were foreign to Islam and that his aim was to create chaos among the Muslims.

When Hadrat Abu Dhar (R.A.) had retired they started accusing Hadrat Uthman that he forced him to live in a village. Not only this but they also accused him of ill treatment of other recognised Companions like Hadrat 'Ammar bin Yasir and Hadrat 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud (R.A.) But all of these accusations were false.

(5) One of the allegations against Hadrat Usman was that he called Hakam bin'As to Medina who was exiled by the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu'alaihi wa Sallam). However this step of Hadrat Uthman was not too wise. Not only this but he also appointed Hakam's son Marwan as his chief secretary which was not liked by some prominent Companions and also by the Muslim Public.

The forthcoming discussion on this point would reveal that Marwan became the main cause of insurgents' existent who ultimately assassinated the Khalifah. It is alleged that he wrote to Egypt's governor Hadrat 'Abdullah to kill Muhammad bin Abi Bakr whom Hadrat Usman had appointed the governor of Egypt in place of Muhammad bin Abi Bakr when the insurgents pressed Hadrat Uthman to do so but this, too, was false. The letter was sheer forgery.

There are some other false allegations which were levelled by Sabaites to defame the Khalifah. Since most of them are purely theological in nature and not political, they are not been mentioned here.


Conference of the Governors

When the unrest caused by Sabaites went on growing in all parts of the State, the news began to pour in Medina. The leading Companions asked Hadrat Usman to take steps against them. So he called a conference of the governors in Medina in the year 34 A.H., just after the Hajj. All the governors attended the meeting. Hadrat Usman (R.A.) enquired from them about the growing unrest in the State. They told him that it was due to some mischief-mongers who wanted to overthrow the government. They suggested that such persons must be punished and those who were the leaders must be put to sword. But Hadrat Uthman disliked the suggestion and told them that without just cause he would never shed even a single drop of Muslim blood. Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) was not willing to take stern action against such persons because he did not want that hundreds of men should be massacred for his interest. Instead, he sent a mission of four persons: Muhammad bin Muslimah, Usamah bin Zaid,'Ammar bin Yasir and 'Abdullah bin 'Umar(Rad. A .)to tour the provinces.

After the governors' conference was over Hadrat Amir Mu’awiya (R.A.) suggested that he should leave Medina and should pass some time in Damascus but he said, "I would not leave Medina even though people kill me." Then Amir Mu'awiya (R.A.) requested Hadrat Usman (R.A.) to allow him to send an army to Medina for his protection but Hadrat Uthman did not agree to even that.


Tour of the Mission

The mission sent by Hadrat Uthman toured various places and talked with the people. Three of them returned to Medina and reported to Hadrat Uthman that the conditions were normal. The fourth member of the mission Hadrat 'Ammar bin Yasir (R.A.) did not return. He was sent to Egypt where 'Abdullah bin Saba and his followers coaxed him and he started to live with them instead of returning to Medina.


Saba gets friends

'Abdullah bin Saba was in search of some important men who were having some influence over the Muslims. At last he won over three important figures. One among them was Hadrat 'Ammar bin Yasir, described above. The other two joined Ibn Saba before Hadrat 'Ammar. They were Muhammad bin Abi Hudhaifah and Muhammad bin Abi Bakr. Muhammad bin Abi Hudhaifah was an orphan and was brought up by Hadrat Uthman along with some other orphans. When he grew up he desired some big post. Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) did not consider him fit for that. So he left Medina and went to Egypt and ultimately joined Ibn Saba. Muhammad bin Abi Bakr(R.A.) was in debt. The creditor complained to the "Khalifah" who decided the case impartially in favour of the creditor as a result of which Muhammad bin Abi Bakr left Medina and came to Egypt and ultimately joined Ibn Saba.


Plan of the Sabaites

The Sabaites were planning to cause a general rising when the Governors were away to attend the conference. However the plot could not be carried out.

Kufa was the main centre of the Sabaites besides their headquarters in Egypt. The hooligans of Kufa tried to carry out the plan and did not allow the governor to enter the city when he returned from the conference. They demanded that Hadrat Musa Ash'ari should be appointed as the governor in place of Sa'd bin'As. Their request was granted and Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) sent Hadrat Musa Ash'ari to Kufa.

Then they chalked out another plan and decided that their ring leaders should meet at Medina. This plan had to serve double purpose. On the one hand they wanted to study the situation for future course of action, and on the other hand they wanted to show to the public that they put their grievances before the "Khalifah" but he did not pay any attention to them.

According to the plan three delegations came, one from Egypt, the second from Kufa and the third from Basrah. Hadrat Usman was informed about their plan but he accepted it quietly. When these Sabaites entered Medina some Companions suggested to Usman (R.A.) to kill them but he told that without sufficient legal grounds no man can be executed, and that he would try to remove the misunderstandings. He told them, "I would be kind to them and if kindness failed to work I would rather sacrifice myself for Allah's Will."

Hadrat Usman (R.A.) listened to them and gave a long address in which he replied to all the charges which were put against him. Some parts of his historical address are quoted here

"I have been accused of loving my kinsmen and to be unduly kind to them. It is not a sin to love one's relatives but I have never been unjust to other people because of my love of my relatives. Whatever I give them that is from my own pocket. I never spent anything on my relatives and kinsmen from public funds ......"

"It has been said that I have appointed comparatively young men as officers. I did it only because I found them abler for the cause of Islam. Nobody could deny their honesty and the work they rendered for the cause of Islam and the Muslims. The appointment of Usamah as the commander of the army by the Holy Prophet is proof that youth is no disqualification."

".... It has been alleged that I gave the whole booty of North Africa as reward to the governor of Egypt. It is true but when I learnt the public objection to it, I took back the money from the governor and deposited it in the "Baitul Mal"....."

"It is said that I have reserved the public pastures for my personal use. I swear by Allah that I never did it. In public pastures only those animals graze which are the property of the "Baitul Mal" (Public Treasury). All of you know that when I was entrusted with this office (i.e. caliphate) I had more animals than any one in the whole of Arabia but now I have only two camels that are to serve me at the time of Hajj. How could I reserve the public pastures for my personal use?......"

"People accuse me of sending copies of the Holy Qur'an. The Holy Qur'an is Allah's book sent down to His Prophet. The Companions who wrote it under the direct supervision of the Holy Prophet are still alive. I have sent only that copy of the Holy Qur'an which was compiled by those Companions.."

"It is said that I called Hakam to Medina who was exiled by the Holy Prophet. Actually the Holy Prophet exiled him from Mecca to Taif. Then the Holy Prophet had allowed him to live at Medina on my request. I only put into force the permission granted by the Holy Prophet himself...."

In this way Hadrat Usman gave satisfactory explanation to all the allegations put against him by the Sabaites. In the end of his address he asked the audience
"Tell me if all what I have said is not correct."

But the aim of these ring leaders was to create mischief. They returned to their places and instead of telling the truth told them that the "Khalifah" was not ready to set things right. Then they planned to send strong contingents from places like Basrah, Kufa and Egypt for the forthcoming Hajj. The parties were to leave their places pretending to perform Hajj but there aim was to go to Medina and decide the matter with the sword i.e. to change the "Khalifah" by force. Though the "Khalifah" knew about this plan from before hand but he did not want to use force. He was determined to win over his enemies with love and compassion.


Martyrdom: Insurgents (Sabaites) enter Medina

As the time of Hajj in the year 35 A.H. (656 A.C.) came near they started to put their plans into action. In the month of Shawwal 35 A.H. they started coming in small groups from various places. In all about three thousand Sabaites came, one thousand from each place viz. Basrah, Kufa and Egypt. The groups from Basrah stayed at DhiKhashab, and those from Kufa stayed at A'was while the Egyptians stayed at Dhi-Murwah. All the three places are near Medina. All of them wanted Hadrat Uthman to step down but there was some difference of opinion regarding the next "Khalifah". Because of Ibn Saba, the Egyptians wanted Hadrat 'Ali (R.A.), but Kufites preferred Hadrat Zubair while Basrites were in favour of Hadrat Talha. The Egyptians came to Hadrat 'Ali and requested him to accept the "Khilafat". Hadrat 'Ali replied, "The Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam) has told us that the parties of Dhi-Khashab, Dhi-Murwah and A'was are cursed. Every pious Muslim knows about it. I can't co-operate with you. Go back to your places." The insurgents from Kufa made the same request to Hadrat Zubair who also gave the same reply. The Basrites approached Hadrat Talha who also refused.

When Hadrat Usman heard about the insurgents he sent some of the leading Companions including Hadrat 'Ali to them. Hadrat 'Ali assured the insurgents that their complaints would be listened to. They put certain demands including the dismissal of the governor of Egypt and appointment of Muhammad bin Abi Bakr as the new governor. Hadrat Uthman acceded to their demand without any question. Then he gave a short address in which he said, "By Allah, for the cause of truth, 1 am ready to obey even a slave. I promise to fulfil your demands." Saying this tears rolled down the eyes of Hadrat Uthman, and the audience also wept.

Hadrat 'Ali (R.A.) then again assured the insurgents and they seemed to be satisfied and started to go back. All the Muslims at Medina thought that the trouble had ended.


The siege of Khalifah's house

A few days later the Medinites were surprised to hear shouts of "Revenge", "Revenge" in the streets of Medina. Hearing the shouts Hadrat ’Ali came out to enquire about the matter. The insurgents showed a letter to him under the seal of "Khalifah" and signed by Marwan bin Hakm, the chief secretary of Hadrat Usman (R.A.). The letter was being carried to the Governor of Egypt by a special messenger whom they intercepted on the way. The letter said; "Uqtul Muhammad bin Abu Bakr" (i.e. Kill Muhammad bin Abu Bakr) instead of "lqbil Muhammad bin Abu Bakr" (i.e. Accept Muhammad bin Abu Bakr as governor).

Note: It seems that the "Nuqtab "(dot) of Arabic letter "Ba" was wrongly placed at the top giving it a letter similar to another letter "Ta" due to which the meaning was totally changed. But according to most of the historians the letter was intentionally written by Marwan about which Hadrat Uthman did not know. While some others say that was a plot of insurgents and they produced a forget letter. For the reason given in the Glorious Caliphate by Athar Husain the letter was a clean forgery.

Hadrat'Ali tried to pacify them but they did not listen to him and went straight to Usman, saying: “We do not want Usman (R.A.) to be the Khalifah. Allah has made his blood lawful for us. You should also help us." Hadrat 'Ali said, "By Allah, I have nothing to do with you. It seems that you have hated a plot and are trying to carry it out."

When the insurgents went to Hadrat Usman (R.A.) he took a solemn oath that he knew nothing about the letter. But they did not believe him and said, "Whether you wrote it or not, you are unfit to be the Khalifah and you must abdicate." They threatened to kill him on which Hadrat Usman (R.A.) replied, "I do not fear death, but I do not want to shed Muslim blood."

When Hadrat'Ali saw that the insurgents were not in control and Hadrat Uthman did not want to use force against them, he left for Ahjar, a place few miles away from Medina, because his position was becoming difficult as the insurgents wanted to drag him in the dispute.

Afterwards the insurgents demanded Hadrat Usman (R.A.) to give up the "Khilafat". He rejected their demand and said, "I can't take off the robe of honour with my own hands that Allah has bestowed upon me." Consequently the insurgents laid a siege to his house and did not allow him to come out except for offering Salats in the Masjid. But later on they did not allow him to come out even for the Salats. The siege went on for forty days. During the last few days they also stopped supply of water. Some brave Muslim youths like Hadrat Hasan, Husain, Muhammad bin Talha, 'Abdullah bin Zubair (R.A.) were guarding the gate of the house so that nobody among the insurgents could enter the house. Beside Hadrat Uthman and his wife, Nailah, Marwan bin Hakam was also in the house. He did not allow any person to fight with the insurgents although a fight took place between Hadrat Hasan, Husain and Marwan and the insurgents when they did not allow Umm-ul-mu'minin Hadrat Habibah (R.A.) to supply meals to Hadrat Uthman. Hadrat Hasan received minor injuries but Marwan was seriously hurt. However the insurgents did not fight with Hadrat Hasan and Husain because of the fear of Hashmites. During the siege Hadrat Uthman sent Abdullah bin ’Abbas to Mecca to lead the Hajj and also to inform people about the insurgents. He also sent messengers to provincial governors.

When hardship grew, some eminent Companions like Hadrat Mughirah bin Shu'bah requested the "Khalifah" to take action against the insurgents and said that all the people of Medina were ready to fight for him but he did not agree to shedding of blood of Muslims. Then they proposed that he should leave the house through the back door and either go to Mecca or to Damascus where he would be safer but he accepted neither of the proposals. The things got worse day by day, and at last the crisis arrived.


Martyrdom of Hadrat Usman (R.A.)

The only weapon with Hadrat Uthman was his kindness and soft nature. He addressed several times the insurgents from the roof of his house and reminded them about his family relations with the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam), and the services he had rendered to Islam but they never listened to him.

The insurgents were afraid that the Hajj was coming to an end and after the Hajj a number of supporters of the "Khalifah" would come to Medina. They decided therefore to assassinate him without delay. As stated before, they did not want to fight with Hashmites like Hadrat Hasan, Husain and 'Abdullah bin Zubair who were standing guard at the main gate of Hadrat Uthman's big residence. The reason not to fight with Hashmites was that they had incited a number of people against Banu Umayyah (Hadrat Uthman’s family) in favour of Banu Hashim (Hashmites). So the insurgents climbed the back walls of the house and entered the room where Hadrat Uthman (R.A.) was reciting the Holy Qur'an.

On seeing Hadrat Usman, one of the insurgents hit his head with an axe while the next struck him with a sword. His wife, Nailah tried to shield her husband but she also got several wounds and her fingers were chopped off. Chronicles record that Muhammad bin Abu Bakr was the leader of the assassins. He got hold of Hadrat Uthman’s beard and pulled it. On this Hadrat Uthman remarked, "0 my dear nephew if your father (Abu Bakr) were alive you would not have done this." The remarks of Hadrat Uthman cut him to the quick and he turned back and did not take part in the assassination.

After giving severe injuries to Hadrat Uthman, one af insurgents, an Egyptian named 'Amr bin Hamq cut off Khalifah's head.

Hadrat Usman (Radiallahu 'Anhu) was assassinated on Friday, the 17th Dhul-Hijjah, 35 A.H. (the 17th July, 656 A.D.).


A great Martyr

Hadrat Usman was a great martyr as prophesied in the following Hadith quoted by Bukhari and others

Hadrat Anas (R.A.) narrated that the Holy Prophet (Sallallahu 'alaihi wa Sallam), Abu Bakr,'Umar, and Uthman went up Uhud (the mountain near Medina) and when it quivered because of them the Holy Prophet kicked it with his foot and said, "Keep steady, 0 Uhud, for there are a prophet, a Siddiq and two martyrs on you."

In the above Hadith, Hadrat Abu Bakr had been said as the Siddiq (friend) while 'Umar and Usman (R.A.) had been prophesied as the martyrs.


The news of martyrdom

The news of Hadrat Usman's cruel assassination shocked everybody. Hadrat'Ali (R.A.) received the news when he was returning from Ahjar to see Hadrat Usman. He was stunned on hearing the assassination of Hadrat Usman and exclaimed, "0 Allah, You know it, I am free from any blame." He rebuked his sons Hasan and Husain (R.A.) and others who had stood guard at the gate for not being more alert.

After assassinating the Khalifah, the insurgents virtually took over charge of Medina. They also looted the "Baitul Mal". Medinites were afraid of them and did not come out of their houses. The corpse of the "Khalifah" could not be buried for two days. At last some Muslims in succeeded getting into the house and carried out the burial service. There were only 17 Muslims who participated in the 'Burial Prayers". Hadrat Usman (R.A.) was 82 years old at the time of his assassination and remained in the office of "Khilafas" for about 12 years. His words "I do not want to spill Muslim blood to save my own neck", will be remembered for ever in the history of Islam. He sacrificed his life to save Muslim blood.


Consequences of assassination

The assassination of Hadrat Usman (R.A.) was unparalled in Islamic history and it had far reaching effects. Hadrat Hudhaifah (Rad.A) the secret keeper of Holy Prophet's prophecies remarked on hearing the assassination of Hadrat Uthman, "Ah, the assassination of Usman has divided the Muslims till resurrection, they would never be united again." It proved to be true because just after the assassination civil war started and continued up to the tragedy of Karbala. At that time the Muslim community was divided into four groups

(i) Usmanis: The Syrians and Basrites were in favour of capital punishment of the assassins. Syrians thought Hadrat Mu'awiyah the most suitable person to punish the assassins while the Basrites wanted the Khalifah from any of these two Talha or Zubair, as they were included in the panel appointed by Hadrat Umar to select the Khalifah.

(ii) Shi'an-i-'Ali: These people did not think Hadrat Usman (R.A.) fit for "Khilafat" and called themselves as the "Shi ‘an-i-'Ali" i.e., the friends of ‘Ali. Kufans and some Egyptians were in this group. According to Sunni historians, the assassins were from amongst this group.

(iii) Murhibah: These were those people who were busy in "Jihad" (Holy Wars) at the time when Hadrat Uthman was assassinated. They said: "Neither we are with Usmanis nor with Shi'as. We want to keep aloof from their differences."

(iv) Ahl-i-Sunnah wal Jama'ah: These were the bulk of the Companions and the Muslims of various parts of the Islamic state including Mecca, Medina and other parts of Arabia. They said, "We love both Usman and 'Ali and consider them as righteous and pious Companions. We do not curse any of the Companions and the righteous Muslims. If any of the Companions committed a mistake it was due to his "Ijtihad" (his disciplined verdict based upon the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah of the Holy Prophet) and he would not be questioned for it. We follow the Sunnah (ways) of the Holy Prophet and the Sunnah (ways) of his righteous jama'ah (i.e. the group of ail the Companions).The first and the third viz. Uthmanis and Murhibah proved to be temporary political groups but the other two viz. "Shi'as" and "Ahli Sunnah wal Jama'ah" or Sunnis took the shape of permanent theological groups and still exist.

Hearing the news of Hadrat Uthman's assassination Hadrat 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas (R.A.), a prominent commentator of the Holy Qur'an remarked "Allah might have stoned us as He stoned the people of Lot if majority of the Muslims supported the assassinations of Hadrat Uthman."

Thamamah bin 'Adi (R.A.) the governor of Yemen started to cry and weep hearing the news of the assassination of Hadrat Uthman. Hadrat 'Abdullah bin Salam (R.A.), well versed in the past scriptures, said: "By Allah, the power of the Arabs has finished now." Hadrat 'Aisha (R.A.), the most beloved wife of the Holy Prophet, said, "Ah, Uthman has been assassinated most cruelly. His record of deeds is shining like a well washed cloth."

Hearing the news of the assassination Hadrat Abu Hurairah and Hadrat Zaid bin Thabit (R.A.) started to weep continuously and their tears did not stop for a long time.

The shirt of Hadrat Uthman, which was spotted with his blood, and the cut fingers of his wife, Nailah, were carried to Hadrat Amir Mu'awiyah (R.A.), the Governor of Syria, in Damascus. When they were shown to the Muslim public the whole gathering started to cry and shouted, "Revenge", "Revenge".

Mr. Joseph Hell, a Western historian says: "The assassination of Usman was a signal for civil war." Mr. Wellhausen, a German historian says, "The murder of Usman was more epoch-making than, almost any other event of Islamic history." Philip Hitti has remarked: "With Uthman's death the political unity of Islam came to an end. Soon Islam's religious unity was divided. Islamic society entered upon a period punctuated with schism and civil strife that has not yet ended." A Muslim historian, Prof. K. Ali, writes, "Unity of Islam which was maintained by the first two "Khalifahs" was lost and serious dissensions arose among the Muslims."
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The assassination of Hadrat Usman was followed by great civil wars and battles between the Muslims, the details of which would come later. The system of centralised government initiated by Hadrat ‘Umar and developed by Hadrat Uthman was shattered and a number of internal movements started of which the Kharijite's movement was the most serious.
 
not only problem of kalmah ,but the differences are to much,i try to find some examples from most patent shia books,i not write the content only give the name of book ,page etc. if some one wish can see these books.............................Here we have Usool al- Kafi that is a collection narrations and traditions attributed to the Shiite Imams, Ahlul Bayt and the Prophet. Al-Kafi is the MOST reliable Shia Book, as the reliable Shia Scholars said and declared . Its author is Thiqat al-Islam Muhamad Ibn Yaqoob AlKulayni (A VERY reliable Shia Scholar, died in 328 H). Some Shi'ites scholars believe usool Al-Kafi was presented to the legendary Imam Qaem who liked it and said: "It suffices our Shi'ites" (al-Tharee'ah ela Tasaneef al-Shi'a: Agha Buzurg al-Tahraani; vol.17, p.245)

Al-Kafi is a collection of Hadiths attributed to the prophet Muhamad p.b.u.h and The Infallible Imams -according to Shia- and like AhlSunnah, who give much importance to their Hadith book (Saheeh AlBukhari), Shia give the same or maybe even more importance to their Book (Al-Kafi) . Unlike AhlSunnah who call AlBukhari's Book as (Saheeh AlBukhari), Shia do not call Al-Kafi as (Saheeh Al-Kafi), nevertheless, Shia treat Al-Kafi as it is (Saheeh) and their most reliable scholars declare it as a (Saheeh) .

alkafi.vol.1.page no. 255,258,260,148,145,177,,388,289,270,412,457,228,226.
alkafi.vol.5.page no.549,544,540.
alkafi.vol.10. page no.54,55
[Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.1, p.157; Bihaar al-Anwaar vol.21, p.98; Tafseer al-Burhaan vol.2, p.230........ [Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.1, p.110; Bihaar al-Anwaar Baqir al-Majlisi, vol.23, p.98; al-Burhaan fee Tafseer al-Qur'an: Hashim al-Bahraani, vol.1, p.219; Wasaa'il al-Shi'a: al-Hur al-Amily, vol.3, chpater 73: An-Nikaah wa Aadabuh]
(Tafseer al-Ayyashi, p. 218, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol.2 p. 1319, Tafseer al-Burhaan, vol. 2, p. 300)
(Tafseer al-Ayashi, p. 224 , Tafseer al- Burhan, vol. 3, p. 310, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 8, p. 220 ....(Tafseer al-Ayyashi, p. 157 , Bihaar al-Anwar, vol. 21, p. 98, Tafseer al-Burhaan, vol. 2, p. 230 ....(Bihaar al-Anwar, vol. 43, p. 78)....(Bihaar al-Anwar vol. 40, p. 2)
spacialy for sir naiz
 
Many thanks Hon Aalamgir.

I will try to read the books that you refer. There is no denying that fact that martyrdom of Hazarat Osman ( RAA) was one the greatest tragedies of Islam. Never did I ever consider this great companion of the prophet ( PBUH) culpable in any way.

My problem remains and you have proven from your long narrative; that some of the muslims who had personally met the Prophet ( PBUH) and this included grandies such as Mohammad bin Abu Bakr and Hazart Ammar Yassir (RAA), one of the most pious among the 'Ashab e Suffah'; could be induced to rebel against one of the Rashideensm. This act is obviously wrong.

I have come across the concept of 'Wahi Matloo' that is open Wahi as detailed in the holy Quran and 'Wahi ghair matloo' that is Wahi which is not openly written but hidden and manifests in the form of Hadith (Tradition) of the Prophet ( PBUH). I ask myself the question that when within 20 years of the passing away of the prophet; muslims ( they were muslims, not all of them newly converted as these included hazart Ammar Yassir ) rebel and kill one of the most trusted companions of the prophet; the possibility of some doubt in the authenticity of the Hadith as written in the Sahi Bukhair, Sahih Muslim, Sahih Tibri, Sahih Tirmidhi , Ibne Maja, Ibne Daud etc) cannot be ruled out. Majority of the Sunni doctorines is based on these books; collected about 100 years after the Rashideen era and narrated thru intermediaries.

Just as the son of Hazrat Abu Bakr ( Mohammed Bin Abu Bakr) was in error when he actively participated in the martyrdom of Hazrat Osman ( RAA), so was Muawyia when he fought Hazart Ali ( RAA) at Siffin. You havenot touched upon the subject that any one who actually fights one of Rashideens can be acceptable to Ummah as Khalifa barely 30 years after the passing away of the Prophet ( PBUH)

I want to re emphasize that this being a forum of a reasoned debate ( not of passions), I am noting down my personal doubts and I dont mean to insult or ridiclue anyone. I am just an ordinary soul who tries to rationalize Muslim beliefs in his own mind mainly to avoid being hypocritical.
 
if we look history of islam,there were many atempts by non muslims spacialy,persian and jews to destablise islamic state,they start from shahadet-umar(ra) but they not gain thier goal,then they change the method,some of them become muslims like ibn-e-sabba,they start to create misunderstanding among muslims,and some mistake from some of sehabahs, which results in civil war but majority of sehabahs try to unify muslims ummah,the best example of this is hazrat hassan (ra) give up his right of khalafet to hazarat muawyia (ra) ,muslims believe that the Sahaba were not innocent of the minor or major sins, but their qualities and deeds were so virtuous and superior that they cause the pardon of the errors committed by them. muslims believe that if any of the Sahaba committed mistake, he either repented or performed such virtuous deeds that they are either pardoned or will be interceded for by the Prophet (s.a.w.) as they are most deserving of his intercession. Their Iihad, Hijra, knowledge, deeds and support for the Prophet (s.a.w.) will be a cause of pardon of their few mistakes. As for their Ijtihad, they are rewarded twice when they were correct, and once when their exertion to find the truth resulted in a wrong conclusion. And, as ash-Shafi'ee said, "I have allegiance for them and I seek Allah's forgiveness for them, and for the people of Camel and Siffeen, those who killed and those who were killed, and all the companions of the Prophet in entirety
 
Salaam Mr. Alamghir,

My name is Rizwan Qureshi and I am living in chicago, United States. I have diligently read this topic from page 1 to page 5 and must admit: I am really inspired by this discussion on Shia/Sunni muslim brothers discussion. I have read your commentary as well and must say, it is quite interesting. Can you please tell me about yourself, which part of Pak. you are from and exactly what is your age?

I have been residing in US for 11 years and I am 22 years old and studying aerospace engineering. I am really interested in learning the early history of Islam, beloved Prophet Muhammed, his companions and learning about our sunni and shia muslim brothers.

To be honest with you: I, myself, call myself only muslim and DO NOT refer to myself as shia or sunni. In my eyes, we (shia +sunni) are both muslim brothers and that is what ultimately matters to me.

Can you please give me english books names that are on our beloved Prophet Muhammed PBUH, his companions (all of them, not just the 4 rightly guided companions: Abu Bakr, Omar, Usman, and Ali (may Allah bless them all) and english translations of Ahl-Bayt hadith narration book: Al-kafi and Ahl-Sunnah hadith narration book: Saheeh AlBukhari. Also, are there english translated books on Hazarat Hassan, Hazarat Hussain and the the 13 Imams of shia Islam? I would like to learn about them the characters of these muslim figures as well.

I want to buy these books and read them only for the pure sake of GAINING KNOWLEDGE ABOUT our religion and learning both about our sunni muslim brothers and shia muslim brothers.

I have a female muslim friend in america and she belongs to the Ahy-Baht school of thought and I officially belong to Ahy-Sunnah school of thought. We both are serious students who wish to learn about both of our schools of thought. She has given me online book links on learning about Ahy-baht school of thought and I am slowly reading those links. I, myself do not have any sufficient knowledge on Ahy-sunnah school of thought, so this is why I decided to request you for providing me good, SOUND AND RELIABLE and strong resources that explain about Ahy-sunnah, Quran, Prophet Mohammed PBUH, and his compannions and his family.

If you have any books' names written by well-known scholars on these topics, then please share the names with me. I am a young, aspiring muslim who wishes to learn about our great religion Islam and lifestyle of beloved Prophet MOhammed (PBUH) his beloved family and his companions.

I would appreciate your help. May Allah bless you for your service. Ameen.

Allah Hafiz

Rizwan Qureshi
 
thanks for taking interest in above debate, here some links where you can find good books about islam, www.iqra.org. or iqra book center or anywary-islam.com or islamicoccasions.com or allaahuakbar.net
 
What the heck???? Are you people really sooooo uneducated???? There is no such thing as Kalima being passed on from Mohammad to anyone in Islam! It is something made up by the Indo-Pak Muslims!
Just found a link where it was discussed. There are many books you can read about the origins of Kalima from! This whole discussion is hogwash ppl.

[URL removed]

Learn to stay together regardless of Race, Creed or Religion. This is the way Jinnah wanted Pakistan. :pakistan:
 

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