The Second Indo-Chinese War (2013-2015)

[Capt.Popeye]

moral of the thread-an idiot can start an idiotic thread and drag even the sane indian and chinese members down to his level...So where are we now?finished nuking delhi or just watching india starving to death..?or just hit three gorges dam?
what next?May be we can avert a full scale war by organising a mano-e-mano fight between hu jintao(or wen,it is the choice of china) and manmohan singh..
(that sounds more realistic than most of the stupid plans in this thread)

Well said; the way this thread has stretched on for so long is not funny.

And for the great worthies who have so single-mindedly contributed to it , a "sweeet" treat.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...6-nuclear-candy-really-toxic.html#post1414625

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

India wont attack China.

If that is true, then there is nothing to worry about.

And I don't care if India increases its military spending, that is none of my business.

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

If that is true, then there is nothing to worry about.

And I don't care if India increases its military spending, that is none of my business.

I guess most Indians feel it will be China who attack first, as they are provoking India (more recently, and yes I know about Tibet issue, hence I said more recently) by giving seperate visas to Indians and supporting Pakistan against India.

As for now, India main enemy is inflation (oh the irony after reading this thread haha)

 

[girishktyagi]

How many friends does India have in its neighbourhood? Pakistan, China, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh?

India's best friend was the USSR, who collapsed in 1991.

Every one in our neighborhood is our friend except Pakistan.

1. We have huge growing trade with China.

2. India is helping Bangladesh in development. Last year India gave 2 billion $ of credit to Bangladesh. Apart from this, India is also developing a port in Bangladesh. Also bangladesh goverment is helping India arresting the leader of incergency group likes Bodo and others. (Read more on this)

3. India has given credits to Sri lanka government and also doing massive humanitarian programs. Indian Navy is training Srilankan Navy. (Sri-lankan president last years said that Chinese will come and go where as we have to live with India forever) read more.

4. India's relationship with Afghanistan, Bhutan are in best shape.

5. Relationship with Myanmar are improving raplidly with economic terms as well military corporations. Infact Myanmaris are more worried about Chinese influence if their dependency is increasing on Chinese investments. India is already developing a port in Myanmar apart from other investments.

6. Currently Nepal is a worry for India as it is sleping into Chinese net due to Chinese support to Maoist. But will not be possible as they are more and more dependent on India curtually and economically. Also not to forget that every country acknowledge that dependency on China only will make them slave of Communit blackmailing and military muscling where as that is not the same with open, democratic and strong nation India.


All small nations are only trying to get maximum from India and China as they know that getting into the party of anyone will only harm their interest and balancing between both power will bring benefits to them. And I believe, its the right way for them.

Small countries are more incliend towards China only because of their investments. However it is far more impossible that they will let their own use by Chinese against India.

 

[AGHORI]

USA cannot "jump in". USA does not have any bases that could take part directly in a border war between China and India. China and India share a land border. None of the other US allies share a land border with China.

USA can cause problems in Asian littorals with its navy. But as long as China finishes off India within a few weeks, China can easily defend against any US military action too. Go in, mess them up badly, and pass the wounded animal to Pakistan to deal with.

I love to read your posts as they are very entertaining. you come up with nice comedy. Thank you very much for entertaining me here on defence.pk. Anyways, on a serious note are you aware of US military capabilities? i doubt so. you are ignoring the fact that US has aircraft carriers. Do you know that the US had dispatched an aircraft carrier to India during the 1962 Sino-Indian war? well it can do the same again. find out about the capabilities of US carriers incase you don't know.
Now for the question of US overseas bases, The US military bases in south-east/ east Asia are in the philippines, japan, south korea, singapore which can be used to strike the northern and eastern parts of china among others. It has a strong base in Diego Garcia.List of United States military bases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
United States military deployments - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It also has bases in the middle-east which are being used for WOT in afghanistan and pakistan. It has military bases in afghanistan.
This i why i said that in case of a Sino-Indian war, the "US WILL JUMP IN" and will use these bases. And what makes you think that India will not offer its military facilities and bases to the US?
It is not necessary for the US to have allies who share a land border with china as 21st century war includes aerial and naval warfare apart from land warfare. And since India shares a border with china, US troops can be transported to these areas either through land or through air once they reach India.
You think the US will cause problems in Asian littorals with its navy, i think it will cause a havoc.
And i don't think the US will wait for few weeks for china to finish off India and then step in. It is keeping a watch on china at this moment as well and will dispatch its military immediately should the need arise in accordance with their strategic policy.
As for your statement that china will finish off India within weeks, it seems to me that you are still living in 1962, and are unaware of India's current military capabilities and near future acquisitions.
India can do significant damage to china in retaliation as it has the weapons required to do so.
contrary to your statement that china can easily defend against US military action, i would say "not so easily because of US technological edge". Eg. US F-22 RAPTORS are already in service while chinese 5th generation fighter prototype is in testing phase and will take a few years to be inducted.
India has contigency plans incase of a two-front war if it happens. so forget that the last part of your post will ever manifest into reality. Also US will not allow china to weaken India militarily or economically as it against their strategic interests.
In light of the above mentioned facts, i conclude that THE US CAN AND WILL JUMP IN IF IT IS NECESSARY.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

In light of the above mentioned facts, i conclude that THE US CAN AND WILL JUMP IN IF IT IS NECESSARY.

The USA will not jump in.

Do you have any defence treaty with the Americans that guarantees this? I didn't think so.

Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India.

Interesting to know that you think you need outside help though.

 

[AGHORI]

The USA will not jump in.

Do you have any defence treaty with the Americans that guarantees this? I didn't think so.

Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India.

Interesting to know that you think you need outside help though.

yes the us will jump in IF NECESSARY . and you will have to read my post properly to understand why. you can go into the denial mode but that will be like living in a fool's paradise. whatever i have stated is in line with the realities which i have known from the internet and TV. It is not wishful thinking as you have done.
It seems to me that you are not aware of American strategic interests concerning India and Asia. find out about that first. Do you think we had a defence treaty with the US in 1962 when the US president said that "we will defend India as we would defend any ally " and then had sent an aircraft carrier? i am not aware of such a treaty. It is not always necessary to have a defence treaty with a nation to defend it, if it is in your strategic interest to defend it. A defence treaty between two nations is required when one nation is incapable of defending its territory and both nations agree to have such a treaty. India does not have such a treaty with the US because it does not need such a treaty. we are capable of defending ourselves. US regards India as its strategic partner, so do you understand its implications? it means that INCASE IT IS NECESSARY THEN THE US WILL JUMP IN as India is very important for the US. By stating this i am referring to a situation where in India suffers serious losses, although that is unlikely as we are stronger now and have the strength to defend against china.

You said that "Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India"
I have already replied to this in my previous post to you wherein i have mentioned certain realities which counter your belief.
I suppose that you have not read that reply. Do read it if you have time. Also tell me why is the US supplying weapons to Taiwan and has vowed to defend taiwan incase of an armed invasion by china? why the US didn't care for consequent chinese protests if US-china relations are so very important?. Face it, the us doesn't always practice what it preaches. It does whatever is in its interest. And containing china is in US interests.so it would definately help India if India needs it.
As for your statement that "Interesting to know that you think you need outside help though" i would say read my post properly and try to understand its intended meaning. INDIA HAS THE CAPABILITY TO DEFEND ITSELF AND IS STRONG ENOUGH TO DO SO, BUT INCASE THE SITUATION WARRANTS US HELP, THEN WE CAN ACCEPT THAT HELP. I hope the meaning of my statements are clear to you now. Anyways, it is upto you to decide whether you want to understand the intended meaning or the meaning which you want to understand and believe in.
And my closing point is that if china can team up with pakistan to fight India as stated by HONGWU , then India can team up with the US to defend itself.

 

[kingdurgaking]

You said that "Like I said, America's closest ally in the region is Pakistan, and their most important economic partner in the region is China. In a war involving China/Pakistan vs. India, the US will stay neutral, or may even help Pakistan like it did before against India"
I have already replied to this in my previous post to you wherein i have mentioned certain realities which counter your belief.
I suppose that you have not read that reply. Do read it if you have time.

I would like to add to your knowlege.. if you agree or not.. We have already forecasted or we are already aware of a two front war.. where we will be fighting on all the four borders..
We dont need US or Russia to help us.. we are equipping our self or inother words we are modernizing our own army/navy/Airforce with $100 billion in this decade..
MoD has already laid down the steps...
Slowly we will have new platforms/weapons in this decade sufficient enough to deter both the countries..

If you are so worried just point out where we lack sufficiently??

I will list some of the open projects.. while we are having lot of secrets projects in close tie up with Israel and Russia...

1)MTA --> To replace An's
2)multi layer Missile defence (ABM)
3)Both short and long range missiles in plenty including submarine and silo launches
4)Aero stats
5)MRLS
6)AWACS
7)FGFA
8)AirCraft Carriers
9)Stealth Warship/Destroyers
10)New missile boats
11)New submarines
12)Lot of Tanks
13)Mountain warfare training
14)Hell lot of bombs acquired from Both US and Russia
15)New M777 guns + we are bound to get new guns to replace bofors on large quantity...
16)Network centric capability

over and above we have Atom bombs.... in case things go ugly..

so why worried about getting help from US and Russia?? when we are building sufficient deterring capability...

 

[AGHORI]

I would like to add to your knowlege.. if you agree or not.. We have already forecasted or we are already aware of a two front war.. where we will be fighting on all the four borders..
We dont need US or Russia to help us.. we are equipping our self or inother words we are modernizing our own army/navy/Airforce with $100 billion in this decade..
MoD has already laid down the steps...
Slowly we will have new platforms/weapons in this decade sufficient enough to deter both the countries..

If you are so worried just point out where we lack sufficiently??

I will list some of the open projects.. while we are having lot of secrets projects in close tie up with Israel and Russia...

1)MTA --> To replace An's
2)multi layer Missile defence (ABM)
3)Both short and long range missiles in plenty including submarine and silo launches
4)Aero stats
5)MRLS
6)AWACS
7)FGFA
8)AirCraft Carriers
9)Stealth Warship/Destroyers
10)New missile boats
11)New submarines
12)Lot of Tanks
13)Mountain warfare training
14)Hell lot of bombs acquired from Both US and Russia
15)New M777 guns + we are bound to get new guns to replace bofors on large quantity...
16)Network centric capability

over and above we have Atom bombs.... in case things go ugly..

so why worried about getting help from US and Russia?? when we are building sufficient deterring capability...

Thank you for the information. I already know about those deals as well as the fact that we may have to fight on all four borders.
I am not saying that we will definately need help from US or Russia as i know that we are strong enough to defend our country. what i am saying is that incase the need arises then the US would be willing to help as it is in their interest to do so and a US intervention would make china think twice before continuing the war . Now this does not mean that we are weak or we have a significant lack that we have to depend on US and/or Russia. I have stated in my previous posts that we are capable of defending ourselves. whatever i have stated in my previous posts about US help is just for the sake of argument as some members here like to spread lies about India that no country will take India's side or help India in case of a war and India does not have any friends etc etc. These members also deny/undermine India's achievements and its position in the world. As an Indian how can i remain silent when such lies are spread about my country? so i was just countering their statements. That's it. so please do not misunderstand me. I have told chinese dragon to understand the intended meaning of my post, since he has misunderstood my post to conclude that we would need US help in case of a war with china and can't do without it which is not the true meaning of my post. By the way i know about those deals Infact my father was told by a navy officer that some secret projects are going on which will increase India's might immensely. but they are kept under the wraps for the fear of causing alarm. some of those things which you mentioned are yet to come. I know they will come in a short time.

 

[kingdurgaking]

As an Indian how can i remain silent when such lies are spread about my country? so i was just countering their statements.

There are so many lies out there ... and you cant counter them....
For a matter of fact ... Lot of people here are under false flag.... so Chinese doesnt necessarily mean he is a Chinese .... You can understand from there conversation..
We India have a huge army and we are building our capabilities ... If provoked we will not take human help but material help... Never ever India took human help... For material help we will get support from Russia .. may be from US... And you also understand that Indo-sino war wont be long one so we can definitely hold them.. because this war will hurt many economies.. If prolonged we can call for 3rd world war and subsequently dooms day is marked on the calendar....

 

[AGHORI]

There are so many lies out there ... and you cant counter them....
For a matter of fact ... Lot of people here are under false flag.... so Chinese doesnt necessarily mean he is a Chinese .... You can understand from there conversation..
We India have a huge army and we are building our capabilities ... If provoked we will not take human help but material help... Never ever India took human help... For material help we will get support from Russia .. may be from US... And you also understand that Indo-sino war wont be long one so we can definitely hold them.. because this war will hurt many economies.. If prolonged we can call for 3rd world war and subsequently dooms day is marked on the calendar....

True, but it is necessary to counter some and that is what i am doing. As for what you have stated, i know all that and i do agree with you. I know that we don't need to take human help, but only material help because of our huge army and i also know about the possible duration and consequences of such a war. But as i said, i was only countering/ replying. I have clearly mentioned what i meant in those posts. if they read properly then they would not misunderstand.

 

[HongWu]

And what makes you think that India will not offer its military facilities and bases to the US?

India will not offer them to the US unless it feels really threatened because India does not want to be a colonized country any more. It's a matter of pride for the Indians.

But right now, India does not feel threatened. Instead, India feels powerful enough it contemplates an adventure to quickly strike China in Tibet and then turn around to completely defeat Pakistan. This is China's opportunity to make a counterstrike, recapture southern Tibet and liberate Kashmir for Pakistan.

contrary to your statement that china can easily defend against US military action, i would say "not so easily because of US technological edge". Eg. US F-22 RAPTORS are already in service while chinese 5th generation fighter prototype is in testing phase and will take a few years to be inducted.

China is very confident of its ability to defend Chinese airspace and coast cities against any USA air or naval attack. China has anti-stealth radars, AWACS, air defense destroyers, anti-satellite missiles and ballistic missile defenses. The J-20, of course, is coming soon too! Probably will be deployed in Tibet first.

While defending against USA attacks in Western Pacific, China can quickly defeat Indian Army in Kashmir and northeast India. Then soften up Indian defenses while Pakistan Army attacks from Rawalpindi toward New Delhi.

India has contigency plans incase of a two-front war if it happens. so forget that the last part of your post will ever manifest into reality. Also US will not allow china to weaken India militarily or economically as it against their strategic interests.

In light of the above mentioned facts, i conclude that THE US CAN AND WILL JUMP IN IF IT IS NECESSARY.

China is powerful enough to do another 1962. USA will support India as much as it can, but India might still be too weak to last more than a few weeks, just like 1962!

50 years ago, the consequences of defeat for India was not very serious because China did not have logistical ability to move heavy equipment into southern Tibet and IOK. Now China has motorable roads right up to the LAC in both sectors!

 

[GareebNawaz]

Hongwu you are overconfident that china is able to defeat India. Your country only has the capability to attack India, not the ability to defeat India. And for a few border issues china is not likely to go on a full scale war with India. I am not saying china cant win but you are overestimating your ability and underestimating ours.

 

[GareebNawaz]

And don't think your ally Pakistan will attack india!!! Let your ally defeat Taliban first. I am not doubting pakistan's strength but I am doubting it's willingness to actually go on a full scale war with India. They have too many internal problems plus their economy Is in no shape to handle the expenses of war. Many countrys will say they will attack India, but seriously they won't. Just because you guys have nukes that doesn't mean you will overpower India. Hongwu your rants are nothing but fantasies and your country seeks friendship with India more than destroy it.

 

[ArjunaTheWarrior]

India will not offer them to the US unless it feels really threatened because India does not want to be a colonized country any more. It's a matter of pride for the Indians.

But right now, India does not feel threatened. Instead, India feels powerful enough it contemplates an adventure to quickly strike China in Tibet and then turn around to completely defeat Pakistan. This is China's opportunity to make a counterstrike, recapture southern Tibet and liberate Kashmir for Pakistan.

actually PRC is feeling like that right now...


China is very confident of its ability to defend Chinese airspace and coast cities against any USA air or naval attack. China has anti-stealth radars, AWACS, air defense destroyers, anti-satellite missiles and ballistic missile defenses. The J-20, of course, is coming soon too! Probably will be deployed in Tibet first.


US can totally annihilate PLAAF + PLNAF in matter of days... thr is no way Chinese can think that they can gain even air superiority even against IAF... J-20 in tibet will be deployed when india will have PAK FA with western avionics seating in no. very near to tibetan border ...

While defending against USA attacks in Western Pacific, China can quickly defeat Indian Army in Kashmir and northeast India. Then soften up Indian defenses while Pakistan Army attacks from Rawalpindi toward New Delhi.

haha .... so think you can defeat 2nd largest army which is for year building defences in these areas ... and defend against USA ...


China is powerful enough to do another 1962. USA will support India as much as it can, but India might still be too weak to last more than a few weeks, just like 1962!

haha ... India too weak ...

50 years ago, the consequences of defeat for India was not very serious because China did not have logistical ability to move heavy equipment into southern Tibet and IOK. Now China has motorable roads right up to the LAC in both sectors!

how these road will be after waves of cruise missiles like brahmos will make 50 meter holes after every 50 meter back to 50 no 500 years back... heavy equipment ... haha in Himalayas... PLA with small arms was able to sneak into India in 1962 when thr was no IA present in these areas ... it will annihilation for offender now.. defender will win...