The SAUDIfighter Typhoon??

[Mosamania]

Exactly, so when these people say we are gonna make our own fighter jet, they really mean they are gonna pay the usa to make it for them.

i mean making a jet fighter is not a candy, it takes years of research and training and so on, does saudi arabia even have a wind tunnel?

Aaakh Iranians and their superiority complex again. But I will take Tariq's word and not bother replying to you.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Exactly, so when these people say we are gonna make our own fighter jet, they really mean they are gonna pay the usa to make it for them.

i mean making a jet fighter is not a candy, it takes years of research and training and so on, does saudi arabia even have a wind tunnel?

The article is about transfer of technology (ToT) for the Eurofighter Typhoon.

It is not about Saudi Arabia designing, engineering and producing its very own fighter.

The deal also includes joint research into subsystems such as new AESA radar integration (very important if you want to make a name for your air force), communications, laser, electro-optics, and infra-red technologies.

It is usually more financially feasible to work with a well established firm like BAE than to work on a fighter from scratch. And it'll certainly produce superior results over a short period of time compared to making an own fighter from scratch.

And working on little things like radar, avionics and other sub systems can make a huge difference. This is what Israel does and partly the reason why it is such an effective force. This is what Saudi Arabia is similarly trying to achieve.

India and Pakistan already do something similar to this for the SU-30MKI and the JF-17 respectively. The JF-17 however was a joint development between China and Pakistan. Revenues earned from exports are shared on a 50/50 basis.

All in all, the Typhoon literally outclasses both of the former two.

If a country has good relations with another supplier country, such powerful and useful options can be accessible given that the country has money, the resources, human resource skill, the infrastructure and most importantly the commitment to do it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

TOT is a great feature if Saudia will get technology transfer but they are about 40 years backward until a point when their own scientist can create something useful beside a plastic container for blackberry and camera

 

[Mosamania]

TOT is a great feature if Saudia will get technology transfer but they are about 40 years backward until a point when their own scientist can create something useful beside a plastic container for blackberry and camera

I would say about 15-20 years not 40 years we still have a long way to go we are still building the infrastructure for a strong scientific base. Only in about 2003 where we reached complete Saudization of Teacher jobs but the pace of which we are growing surprised even me.

---------- Post added at 02:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 AM ----------

Saudi pilots detail Typhoon's progress

 

[Qasibr]

Yup. Even much of Lavi's components were of US origin

The difference between the Israeli Lavi and any Saudi project would be this:

The Israelis were trying to get their project *funded* with American aid. Saudis are capable of funding it themselves, even if they have to buy engines and avionics from the US - like the Swedes and Koreans do.

The Lavi created a pretty strange situation where the US was indirectly funding the development of a foreign competitor of it's F-16, which even copied many of F-16's features and used F-16 engines and avionics. No other country has that sort of grip on the US.

To put it in context - the Israelis bombed a US naval vessel, the USS Liberty, near Egyptian waters in the hope that the Egyptians would be blamed. When the vessel wouldn't sink after hours of bombing(using US-origin weapons@!), Israelis claimed it was an accident. And the US refused to investigate any further. They are masters of false-flag operations, who else can do this to the US and still have them fund projects to compete with US aircraft internationally.

Even now, various congressmen pledge their undying support for Israel, America's "one true friend". President Clinton even said if Israel got attacked he would join the fight, and die in a trench fighting for them. That's what happens in democracy where politicians need campaign funds and support to get elected, with interest groups like the American Jewish League funding many, many congressmen, senators, and presidents. "You scratch my back, I scratch yours"

 

[Korean]

@Korean Well, a couple of things.

You are right that Pakistan's aeronautics sector is not currently at the level where it'd be able to develop new aircraft entirely on it's own

We are talking about Saudi Arabia here, not Pakistan.

But it doesn't matter, a country must be at certain level of industrial development before it could undertake a fighter development, and no muslim country is ready for this yet.

The Israelis were trying to get their project *funded* with American aid. Saudis are capable of funding it themselves, even if they have to buy engines and avionics from the US - like the Swedes and Koreans do.

For both Swedish and Korean projects, electronics and avionics are local, only engine is imported. Ditto for Lavi and JF-17 too.

 

[Qasibr]

Having a few engineers and scientists isn't good enough.

India has millions of highly respected scientists and engineers, yet India as whole doesn't have a strong manufacturing industry to manufacture what these engineers design. Ironically, Indian engineers and scientists do not shine in India, but in the US.

There is no industrial base for Saudi Arabia to manufacture what its engineers put out. This is why a Saudi jet fighter is impossible at this time, and only a handful of highly industrialized nations are capable of building their own indigenous jet fighters.

I will give an example. China has transferred JF-17 technology to Pakistan. Does that mean Pakistan can now go out and build its own indigenous fighter jet that could be called Pakistani? The answer is no.

With all due respect my friend - you were talking about the Pakistani JFT project, which is why I responded with info about that, and Pakistan's indigenous aeronautics industry as well. Perhaps you forgot.

Anyways, I do agree with you that this takes a certain level of industrial development. Even some of the most technologically advanced countries on the planet can't build their own aircraft(without foreign help). Saudia Arabia isn't making it's own jet, it's industry isn't there yet. Point was that it seems to be having a modern industrial-revolution fueled by hundreds of billions of investment in various sectors of it's economy.

I don't know about the Korean F/A-50(if that's what it's still called - I heard it's name got changed?), but about the Swedish JAS-39, the engine isn't the only thing they import. In general with avionics, radars and missiles go together - like if your radar is US-origin, it'll work with AIM-9 Sidewinders and AIM-120 AMRAAMs. If it's Russian-origin, you get R-73 heat-seekers and R-77 radar-guided missiles. Sweden had gotten the British GEC-Marconi to develop a large part of it's avionics suite including the radar, due to which the aircraft works with Euro weaponry like the IRIS-T(which they also import, and have no local counterpart) works. And they did pair older 70's era AIM-9Ls, which are simpler to integrate(Pakistan's Aeronautics industry also integrated these with JF-17s, F-6s, F-7s, giving them more of a "punch"). That's why a % is calculated to show how much is made locally, while the Swedes have been making fighter aircraft for decades(Viggens, Gripens, etc), a significant minority of their components are still imported. Since Pakistan and Korea are doing their first combat aircraft it is likely that this % is higher. Pakistan is getting TOT(Transfer of Technology) from China, Korea would get that from the US. Debatably, China is more open with their tech, the US doesn't give alot even to the EU(5% of Eurofighter components still US-dependant), however US tech is more advanced than China's at the moment. I don't think Korea is planning on making it's own range of air-to-air, air-to-surface, heat-seeking, radar-guided missiles, so some avionics would likely be imported too, like the Swedes.

And the Israeli Lavi was different because not only were they importing, they were also funding the project with US assistance. Even now a number of Israeli politicians criticize the closing of the Lavi project, and say that some Israeli lobbying could have kept US funding flowing, despite the aircraft being an F-16 competitor.

So while there are only two or three countries capable of going the whole 9 yards on their own, many others achieve varying degrees of indigenous capabilities. KSA seems to be in the process of revamping up theirs, with oodles of $$$ and them paying to have avionics and sub-component manufacturing in KSA, they seem to be able to make rapid progress.

 

[roadrunner]

good thread.

Saudi being able to produce Typhoons is good for it. They can then export them to other countries perhaps?

It would not be a problem to teach the Saudis how to produce it either.

The only problem would be that the Typhoon is becoming dated as a piece of technology and there may not be enough information to use it as a platform to build new indigenous fighters. I suppose that's the main disadvantage.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

We are talking about Saudi Arabia here, not Pakistan.

But it doesn't matter, a country must be at certain level of industrial development before it could undertake a fighter development, and no muslim country is ready for this yet.


For both Swedish and Korean projects, electronics and avionics are local, only engine is imported. Ditto for Lavi and JF-17 too.

With all due respect, you are underestimating countries like Iran and Turkey. Turkey is today one of the best equipped armies in the world. And we have our own fully indeginious products in almost every field. By 2020 TFX Turkish stealth Multirole fighter aircraft is planned to be finished. Koreans are our brothers though

 

[King123]

How many Typhoon Saudi Arabia is buying ???

Is AESA radar, BVR Missile also included ??

 

[Mosamania]

How many Typhoon Saudi Arabia is buying ???

Is AESA radar, BVR Missile also included ??

For now it is 72 but the Minister of Defense said that Saudi Arabia will at least have 200 Typhoons by 2020. Saudi Arabia will be the biggest operator of the Tranch 3 Typhoon in the world. The Tranch 3 Typhoon has the ability to integrate the future E-Scan AESA radar and the Meteor BVR missile.

 

[Zabaniyah]

How many Typhoon Saudi Arabia is buying ???

72 according to reports.

Is AESA radar,

Yes, they will jointly develop. It is in the article.

BVR Missile also included ??

The Saudis already use the AIM-120 AMRAAM on their F-15s.

In the future, Meteor will be used for the Typhoon.
MBDA Meteor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[King123]

We are also Buy 126-200 Typhoon or Rafale soon. Most likely deal will be done within few months. This Friday final decision will be taken.

Both are providing AESA Radar and Meteor BVR Missile. All will be produced in India by HAL.

Both are best fighter jets besides F-22,F-35.

 

[BATMAN]

Here is problem. Jet fighter tech transfer to Saudi Arabia, or for any Arabic country for that matter, is like trying to teach Differential Equation course to an elementary school student; the student cannot handle the material so the effort is useless.

There is a good reason why there are only few countries in the world that can engineer fighters, a country has to be at a sufficient level of industrialization before it can take on fighter engineering. License production isn't a fighter jet engineering.

There is no industrialized Arabic country in the world. The only semi-Industrialized Muslim country, Turkey, isn't an Arabic country.

While the alleged 9-11 perpetrators mastered to fly Jumboo jets on simulators of much smaller planes in couple of weeks.!!

FYI.. it is Saudis who are running there country better than most of us here and providing to there residents best of both worlds.

 

[kollang]

That's the plan.

dear mosa have you any aerospace Infrastructure for produce a fighter?
and howmany percent of your homemade euorfighter will be arabistan made?
have you any home made air engine to use in?have you any home made radar to use in?what about weapons?
by the way this is a good news.