THE SAD STORY OF THE REJECTION OF SCIENCE

[Zornix]

Pakistanis would rather follow and listen to Mullahs then actual established and proper intellectuals. Hoodbhoy is preaching to the choir with this article, nothing will change. Indian Muslims are totally at fault and have no one to blame but themselves for their backwardness, they have to be the most pathetic group on earth by far.

The biggest damage that colonials did to the Muslim world was separation of non-religious studies/sciences from the madrasa system. This needs to be put back together so that madrasas don't produce useless nutcase molvies.

Muslims did that to THEMSELVES, they chose to reject proper institutions when they had the opportunity and sent their kids to madrasas instead. Any sane and civilised nation would ban madrasas and religious based education of any sort.

 

[mulj]

This is stupid observation, science is not holy grail of society progress in some cases it is actually counter productive.
It is just one of the many human activities and mere tool of observation of natural phenomena, if he said technology lacking progress that is other thing and would be right bit for that you do not need scientism as position.

 

[Zornix]

This is stupid observation, science is not holy grail of society progress in some cases it is actually counter productive.

True to an extent, but following science is preferable anyday over following mullahs and similar religious babble.

 

[mulj]

True to an extent, but following science is preferable anyday over following mullahs and similar religious babble.

Not really sure about it, especially in social matters, i would say it is better to follow anything else instead of science, it creates to much contradictions and what was right today tomorrow it is not.
Anyway science itself got canceled in that particular area here in west, so it is even worse then i said above
Economy, applied science aka technologies is all other matter but even there ethical aspect of it should be cherished.

 

[Wergeland]

This is stupid observation, science is not holy grail of society progress in some cases it is actually counter productive.
It is just one of the many human activities and mere tool of observation of natural phenomena, if he said technology lacking progress that is other thing and would be right bit for that you do not need scientism as position.

Science on itself really has no other function than to observe, describe and test hypotheses against observational data.
Science never makes a moral stand, neither instruct human beings what to do, nor does it support any special agenda.

Science really has no answer or guidlines for the spiritual part of human society. It cannot tell if taking drugs are wrong, only that drugs has so and so effect.
Scientism is a path for societal disintegration, while true science is a tool for acquiring valuable knowledge.

No nations were established on basis of science... and there is reason for that..

finally imo scientism is dangerous for society as it leads to nihilism and pure materialism.

 

[mulj]

Science on itself really has no other function than to observe, describe and test hypotheses against observational data.
Science never makes a moral stand, neither instruct human beings what to do, nor does it support any special agenda.

Science really has no answer or guidlines for the spiritual part of human society. It cannot tell if taking drugs are wrong, only that drugs has so and so effect.
Scientism is a path for societal disintegration, while true science is a tool for acquiring valuable knowledge.

No nations were established on basis of science... and there is reason for that..

finally imo scientism is dangerous for society as it leads to nihilism and pure materialism.

I agree but what we witness today and in recemt past regarding ethycs secially in west, there was always same thing, scince says that, science confims that etc. and with that deconstruct existing social norm, usualy when it suits elites, when science is in opposition of their interests then they remain silent.

 

[Wergeland]

I agree but what we witness today and in recemt past regarding ethycs secially in west, there was always same thing, scince says that, science confims that etc. and with that deconstruct existing social norm, usualy when it suits elites, when science is in opposition of their interests then they remain silent.

When you boil it down, its really about 1 thing; rationalism.

Western world has reorieted its identity from a christian civlization, to a rationalist civilization. This huuge change happened within no more than last 100 years.

Greek Rationalism when it runs its course without being balanced by spirituality/metaphiscis=religion, it ultimately becomes a scientism oriented materialist society.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Not all but certainly a large section of society have. Just look at the kind of indoctrination that some "clerics" put kids through. Of course we have ulema who negate such ridiculous ideas but it's safe to say many feel that they can simply ignore scientific evidence.

Islam promotes worldy education in Academic disciplines such as the social and hard sciences.

You are not only supposed to study religion and then just sit down and do nothing, lol.

You completely misunderstood his point. He stated that we Pakistanis twist Islam to justify our wrongdoings and this is 100% true. The traditional values of Pakistan are mostly dog sh*t. Our traditional values have f**k all to do with Islam, we still carry so many pre-Islamic traditions with us. Also, where did @SQ8 and @VCheng even remotely criticize Islam? Our values are as far away from Islam as possible. Corruption, theft, lying, blaming others for your own problems, cheating, bribery, fraud, jealousy, showing off, backbiting, associating partners with Allah while calling yourself Muslims, and oppressing others are integral values of your average Pakistani. I see them every single day here in Lahore, things are just as bad elsewhere in the country if not worse. I am surprised that Allah hasn't punished us more.

But I feel Pakistan is on the verge of a revolution now, the new generation are grown up now.

People are better educated than they were like 30-40 years ago.

Like a Meiji restoration or Deng Xiaoping's China.

We have failed to get rid of Mullahs. They have a strong grip on the society. That is one of the principal ailments of our society.

And what's wrong with Mullahs you moron. We are Muslims, that is our ideology.

 

[NAVDEEP DHALIWAL]

Religion & Science behas is like adding paani in lassi.

Pai jao pai jao, jado lassi di vi lassi hogai fir thakk k khud hi hat jaoge.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Once upon a time...

Start from somewhere... pick up the threads, know the history and chart it's direction... it will in fact lead you!

Science is no artifact nor someone's possession.
All you need is to start asking the right questions... or follow up on the wrong ones...
Be a part of the story!

Pakistanis have accepted their fate and they chose to follow blindly... so led they will be. Unless, they return back to their roots... pick up old threads and direction.
Once you understand the storyline... protagonists and whodunit then you can figure your own spot ... then the equations wouldn't seem monumental or insurmountable but par for the course a step in the right direction... in fact for trailblazers the wrong steps are in fact guides on picking the right course.

For that though, drop the trope first! Know yourself and learn to stand back on your two feet... know your storyline...

I can go on and on in circles, hammering in the need to first finding your place ... west made Greek philosophy it's bedrock and moved on... In case of Pakistan and like they've have a much arduous journey, because they had centuries of disconnect, a void, filled with make belief, mumbo jumbo and what was spoon fed. To collect these threads and work to produce works of any meaning and substance a herculean task is at hand... of correcting the myths, wrong deductions, chronology and etymology, re-education, adjusting right grads and true seekers that resonate, connect with their threads, provide them resources to further their quests and thereby create a generation that is rounded in the right thought processes, insync with their history and clued in to their path... only they'll become trailblazers, they'll lead the world when they reach such levels. Because until then, western thought and it's quests and queries and deductions made will be the only path laid out, however flawed and out of place it maybe...
It will not resonate because it lacks the proper context and path to digest in the fabric of society... and as the fleeting as those deductions will be, so shall be their flawed implementation.

Each and every scientific discovery owes to this path and quest... the minds that bore them and future generations eager to correct the mistakes and deductions of the past.

 

[mulj]

When you boil it down, its really about 1 thing; rationalism.

Western world has reorieted its identity from a christian civlization, to a rationalist civilization. This huuge change happened within no more than last 100 years.

Greek Rationalism when it runs its course without being balanced by spirituality/metaphiscis=religion, it ultimately becomes a scientism oriented materialist society.

It would be nicer if that is true but they made further reduction of rationalism and currently it is various derivates of analytical branch phylosophy.
It is all about numbers now.

 

[Chacha_Facebooka]

Thats a pathetic excuse of a lie. You have had 75 years to change what you blame the British for. The Brits did not impose a madrasa system. You did and YOU insisted on primacy of religious education to the exclusion of science.

Don't straw man my argument. I did not say that madarasa system was imposed by the Brits. I said that religious and science subjects were separated under colonial powers across the Muslim world. Madarasa system goes back to the foundation of Islam. Foundational work for many sciences was done by Muslims in "madarasas" that western world later built upon. Both religious and non-religious education are important for the stability and advancement of the Muslim world.

 

[imadul]

AL JAHIZ!!!

You got it.
If you can DM your address or loc, we can have a lunch together

 

[Great Janjua]

Im not holding anything back - what makes you think your Pakistani traditions have remotely anything to do with Islam?
Where does not allowing girls by to study by many households in Pakistan Islamic?
Where is having ten halwa khor humans figuring out where the moon is when the entire phases are known Islamic?
Where is cousin marriages, tribal racism Islamic?

You have lied to yourself that your Pakistani traditions rotting away are somehow derived from Islam and therefore sacred.

The rest of your post is the usual hypocrite whataboutism defense? What does Andrew tate have to do with Pakistan?
What does SUPARCO’s decline have to with Islam? Hoodboy is outlining the academic reasons but you are an ignoramus and can only run to your knee jerk defense of “Islam is in danger”

Your entire leadership corrupt, academic system in doldrums which is all because of mediocrity, nepotism and ethnofascist ideals - did those come from Islam which you defend so?

Or, as suspected you went all in for Hoodboy without even reading the context, without even looking at the text because he wrote some other stuff (which I likely don’t agree with) only because you needed to defend your “Islam”.

That who is a Pakistani, will oogle at women and pass pithy comments but let his sister ask to go to university and “Deen Khatray mein hai”

Deen Khatray mein nahin hai magar ziada tar Pakistanio ke liye deen sirf Khatnay mein hai


Great - those people are dead and will inshallah be in Jannah.
And also, none of them were Pakistanis.

There are no Pakistani traditions Pakistan is acronym silly old man traditions are what your ethnic regions hold your blaming the corrupt folk who abuse Islam for their way of life the average folk is sane as ever yet he is overshadowed by gandu liberal warriors who think Islam ko kuch nahi hota whilst humping the release of joyland first read the proper version of Islam before passing retarded remarks.

Societal problems in Pakistan are due to corruption and inadequate education it has nothing to due with traditions and Islam you are bringing your papa hoodbhoy in the argument as if I disagreed with him on education konsi sasti sharab peetay ho?

Cousin marriage happen in Pakistan due to self imposed stand which is put in place by a long chain India is our neighbour yet cousin marriages are literally nonexistent there they also have the same traditions lalu prasad your not making any sense here rest of your post is demented.

I don't need to defend Islam am only here to poke the muslamic liberal ganday anday who think that everything evil in Pakistan somehow culture and religion-related whilst completely ignoring the self-imposed versions of right and wrong which are dominant in Pakistan society.

Your Universities are in shambles they teach you nothing apart from LGBTQ and freedom means this dress and booting away the man from your household. Teaching Academia no no but Joyland yes yes.

Your madrasahs teach imported shit from the hills of Uttar Pradesh whilst completely ignoring that rest of the muslim world does not do the sect hunger games like them.


Everything wrong about Pakistan is the shit they imported not the metier they were living with for centuries. Whether Islam is in danger I cannot say for sure but when Pakistan comes in top 10 of places where Islamaphobic shit originates from you know your a sh*thole and there is something wrong with your education system.