The rise of pseudo secularism in India

[samlove]

i agree that these writers were dormant all these years when they should have formed a collective against the reactionary and backward tendencies in traditional/modern india society... you are also correct about kashmir not being a paradise for muslims too, especially with rise of taliban type burqa gangs like dukhtaraan-e-millat of asyia andrabi.

the writers made a mistake and perhaps they make a mistake now too... like naseeruddin shah said recently, the writers should have used their talent at the written word to form their protest... moreover, since india is not much of a book society, the writers should have formed a collective of writers, dramatists and film-makers to speak about radical change in india.



and they are not wrong... how can a reactionary group like bjp be tolerated by any progressive anywhere in the world??



it is always been clear as to my stand... i am human and a citizen of humanity above all else... as a socialist/communist, i reject nationalism as a unnatural, artificial and obsolete idea and call for a humanity without borders.

i work for humanity... how about you?? are you hindu first or human??



how is lynching or burning alive of two infants a small thing??

and beyond the distinction of majority/minority, how is murder of three progressives a small thing??



when did i support the policies of congress?? in fact, this is what i wrote in post# 8 just above...





if i understood your point correctly, this is my reply... sangh parivar exists because of the wrong policies of nehru, indira and rajiv who opposed socialism as a idea that should guide india... the sangh should be actually thankful to the congress for this.



during the 1998-2004 bjp government, didn't that hardline and vile person, brajesh mishra, declare that usa, israel and india are "natural allies"??

and here is what bjp did about usa military's illegal 2003 iraq invasion, from ( Washington presses India to send troops to Iraq - World Socialist Web Site )...



besides, well-known is sangh terrorists like savarkar licking the boots of the british east india company.



i said nothing about sonia... that is only your hate for her that makes you say that.

u r human right so where is humanity only highlighting selective killing and leave rest for decay ,arent they all human being , if u say in bihar 3 months ago lover hindu boy and muslim girl got married after few days girls side attack with 40-50 muslim men and took both of them in night and left other family member in house after beating them , next day they recovered the body of tht boy from field ,did u heard about any where did any writer ,politican ,media got there for support ,answer is no , only selective things are select then presented in media ,

i am against any killing but media tht two dalit were killed , but they didnt investigate the whole story , as there father is criminal ,he killed the member of tht family few year ago and he was released from jail fewdays ago , also its a family fued between them tht got boys killed not a hate crime .

so brother even human with humanity apllies to all people not only to minorities ,but to all

 

[jamahir]

u r human right so where is humanity only highlighting selective killing and leave rest for decay ,arent they all human being , if u say in bihar 3 months ago lover hindu boy and muslim girl got married after few days girls side attack with 40-50 muslim men and took both of them in night and left other family member in house after beating them , next day they recovered the body of tht boy from field ,did u heard about any where did any writer ,politican ,media got there for support ,answer is no , only selective things are select then presented in media ,

that incident is terrible... "honor kiiling" is something that sadly happens regularly all over the subcontinent, whether in lahore or in bangalore, and in all communities.

but let us remember that the people who worked to make "honor killing" a issue to be condemned were the progressive intellectuals and journalists, so we can't blame them on this.

i have written in threads concerning pakistan and bangladesh too that only hardcore socialism is the solution to rid south asia of its many social evils.

i am against any killing but media tht two dalit were killed , but they didnt investigate the whole story , as there father is criminal ,he killed the member of tht family few year ago and he was released from jail fewdays ago , also its a family fued between them tht got boys killed not a hate crime .

whether or not it is a hate crime is yet to be investigated by deeply questioning whoever did it... as a example, let us remember the amaanat rape/torture case where it was not lust but anti-female anti-progress hatred that made the criminals to do that crime and later be supported by their defense lawyer whose ideas were similar... so we must wait.

coming back to the burning case, surely, throwing petrol bomb into a small house that is known to have innocent, non-sectarian infants surely is a act to be condemned regardless of whether or not it was family feud.

so brother even human with humanity apllies to all people not only to minorities ,but to all

agreed.

 

[Stag112]

there is no hatred from me for hindus but it is so for sanghis - a clear distinction.

and you apply wrong logic... there is a proxy war going on in syria now where cia-assisted terrorists with similar attitude as the sanghis have killed 200,000+syrians within syria which is a socialism-guided country... so what is the point in solely blaming congress party for the murders of dabholkar and kalburgi?? though yes, congress party is partly to be blamed for not waging war on the sangh reactionaries or the reactionaries of other communities... in fact, this is a failure of the entire indian establishment, be it supreme court or the military.

regarding the murder of mr. pansare, from ( Sanatan Sanstha under scanner: Hindu outfit man held for killing of veteran CPI leader Govind Pansare | The Indian Express )...

You are right. He has not been charged. But the police atleast tracked a hindu org and their activists if you see the chain of events. While for kalburgi and dabholkar cases congress and their zolawala stooges with free housing are acting like those happened in BJP rule. I know ou do not believe in Indian constitution but as per that it is a state govt reaponsibility.

And no there is no proxy war in India. Its a media tamasha. Remember the "attacks on churches" in delhi BS which later turned out to be all fake, or the nun rape case in bengal which turned out to be perp by your bangladeshi muslim comrade or the current engineered mess in Punjab that was being instructed by someone in Australia? All this is being engineered and anti national people such as you are trying to hurt India instead of catching Kalburgis murderers.

We see through you. We do not trust your intentions. Be clear about that.

 

[silent hawk]

Confusing for me.

Seculars are pro-Muslim so non-secularism should be promoted to save secularism

 

[Gandhi follower]

Confusing for me.

Seculars are pro-Muslim so non-secularism should be promoted to save secularism

The word is pseudo secularism.

 

[Stag112]

Confusing for me.

Psuedo - Secularism has come to mean anti hindu so non- pseudo secularism should be promoted to save true secularism

Corrected.

 

[nik141991]

You are right. He has not been charged But the police atleast tracked a hindu org and their activists if you see the chain of events. While for kalburgi and dabholkar cases congress and their zolawala stooges with free housing are acting like those happened in BJP rule. I know ou do not believe in Indian constitution but as per that it is a state govt reaponsibility.

And no there is no proxy war in India. Its a media tamasha. Remember the "attacks on churches" in delhi BS which later turned out to be all fake, or the nun rape case in bengal which turned out to be perp by your bangladeshi muslim comrade or the current engineered mess in Punjab that was being instructed by someone in Australia? All this is being engineered and anti national people such as you are trying to hurt India instead of catching Kalburgis murderers.

We see through you. We do not trust your intentions. Be clear about that.

Punjab mess is being organized by ISI , there are enough intelligence input regarding it, they couldn't have found better time than this

 

[silent hawk]

The word is pseudo secularism.

Corrected.

More confusing

 

[jamahir]

You are right. He has not been charged. But the police atleast tracked a hindu org and their activists if you see the chain of events.

why is that organization, "sanathan sanstha", not banned yet??

and look ( 30 Lawyers for Sanatan Sanstha Man Accused in Activist Govind Pansare's Murder )... what does this say about maharashtra??

While for kalburgi and dabholkar cases congress and their zolawala stooges with free housing are acting like those happened in BJP rule.

basic things like high-quality housing must be free... why should you make that a object of mockery??

And no there is no proxy war in India. Its a media tamasha. Remember the "attacks on churches" in delhi BS which later turned out to be all fake, or the nun rape case in bengal which turned out to be perp by your bangladeshi muslim comrade

well, the sangh was always at the fore-front of such activities, hence the finger of blame was first pointed to it.

or the current engineered mess in Punjab that was being instructed by someone in Australia?

@Juggernautjatt , what is he talking about??

All this is being engineered and anti national people such as you are trying to hurt India instead of catching Kalburgis murderers.

when did i say we shouldn't catch kalburgi's murderers??

We see through you. We do not trust your intentions. Be clear about that.

it is your own bigotry and intentions that you project on me.

 

[ThaniOruvan]

It is called extremism in today world, wont you aware of language evolution ?

In most instances extremism is the only way to keep things under 'control'.
Won't you aware of thought process evolution ?

 

[Sipahi]

In most instances extremism is the only way to keep things under 'control'.
Won't you aware of thought process evolution ?

NO

 

[rohitshubham]

and they are not wrong... how can a reactionary group like bjp be tolerated by any progressive anywhere in the world??

you see, while it may not be their intentions, but its pretty easy for even a child to infer from their actions that it is orchestrated. M. Rana returned his prize on a live TV show. Who wouldn't say that its a publicity stunt.

Recent events have become a tool for political escapades. Every party including congress ,sp,jdu,cpi etc have been only adding fuel to fire. Moreover thier bigotry is even more exemplified when the victim of same hate crime in karnataka is treated just like another homicide while people are making hero out of UP's hate crime victim.
Why didn't rahul ghandhi or karat visit the poojari's family member. Only because there is no political mileage in doing so.

I just want to ask why should all the blame be shifted on BJP every time. As far as i am concered, at least dadri incident was not directly orchestrated by BJP; it's what they did after the incident was wrong. There was certainly failure of police in dadri and it is the main cause of incident. Mob mentality is fine grained in south asia, you can't just cure it in a day.

 

[Agent_47]

this article is too late. pseudo secularism in India is dead since BJP got power. now its a new kind of fundamentalism

are you not aware of the beef ban?

Go and re read about '1857 revolt' from your history books.

 

[Juggernautjatt]

@Juggernautjatt , what is he talking about??

I think some guys on this forum are victim of false & laughable propaganda created by Punjab Police & Punjab media (owned directly by Badals).Everyone related closely to Punjab knows that whole mess is state is created by ruling party to deflect agitation of farmers & farm labours.
Punjab police on Tuesday claimed to have cracked case of sacrilege of holy book in the state with the arrest of two brothers, who received money from "someone in Australia". Police took them into custody after intercepting their mobile calls between 14 to 16 October. Police also issued the transcripts of the calls of them before media in Chandigarh. Now let me clear some fallacies in Police theory.
1. One of the arrested brothers Rupinder Singh received serious spinal cord injuries due to lathicharge on protesters. He was admitted in Apollo Hospital in Ludhiana till his arrest on 19 October. If he is the real culprit then why he was confronting the Police & facing the lathis in protests ?
2. Police issued transcripts of 2 calls of Rupinder Singh, one with his brother & other with someone in Australia. According to Police Rupinder made these calls at 10.37 AM on same day. How can a person make 2 different calls on same time ?
3. According to Police Rupinder received money from "someone in Australia" for doing this. Today that person appeared on radio on Australia & claimed that he provided that money to Rupinder for his treatment. That money was collected by Sikhs of Australia as a charity for Rupinder after watching his condition on social media. That person in Australia also claimed to have concrete evidences & witness of that money & of his innocence. But Punjab Police is not contacting with him. What type of investigation is this, Police declaring a person culprit without even talking to him?
4. Police on the one hand claimed to solve the case on the other hand failed to recover the lost pages of book.
5. Today Punjab CM claimed that police arrested both brothers with the help of village people. But according to media reports village people are protesting on roads against the arrests.

It seems that whole case is framed up by government & Punjab Police (world famous for human right abuses). Clearly something is fishy & government is trying to save someone in this particular case. This act of Police has created more anger in protesters. I don't think they will calm down easily now. Government has totally failed to understand & solve the situation.

Punjab mess is being organized by ISI , there are enough intelligence input regarding it, they couldn't have found better time than this

You mean Indian Punjab Police on the orders of their ISI masters fired AK-47 bullets at 6 AM in the morning in Kotkpura on peaceful protesters busy in reciting Gurbani resulting in 2 deaths & dozens of injured ?
Didn't know Punjab Police follows orders of Pakistani ISI ....

People are also angry on recent decisions of Akal Takht on dera sirsa & remind you Akal Takht is under influence of Badals not ISI.

I am not shielding ISI but there is no clear evidence ISI involvement in this case.

 

[jamahir]

I think some guys on this forum are victim of false & laughable propaganda created by Punjab Police & Punjab media (owned directly by Badals).Everyone related closely to Punjab knows that whole mess is state is created by ruling party to deflect agitation of farmers & farm labours.
Punjab police on Tuesday claimed to have cracked case of sacrilege of holy book in the state with the arrest of two brothers, who received money from "someone in Australia". Police took them into custody after intercepting their mobile calls between 14 to 16 October. Police also issued the transcripts of the calls of them before media in Chandigarh. Now let me clear some fallacies in Police theory.
1. One of the arrested brothers Rupinder Singh received serious spinal cord injuries due to lathicharge on protesters. He was admitted in Apollo Hospital in Ludhiana till his arrest on 19 October. If he is the real culprit then why he was confronting the Police & facing the lathis in protests ?
2. Police issued transcripts of 2 calls of Rupinder Singh, one with his brother & other with someone in Australia. According to Police Rupinder made these calls at 10.37 AM on same day. How can a person make 2 different calls on same time ?
3. According to Police Rupinder received money from "someone in Australia" for doing this. Today that person appeared on radio on Australia & claimed that he provided that money to Rupinder for his treatment. That money was collected by Sikhs of Australia as a charity for Rupinder after watching his condition on social media. That person in Australia also claimed to have concrete evidences & witness of that money & of his innocence. But Punjab Police is not contacting with him. What type of investigation is this, Police declaring a person culprit without even talking to him?
4. Police on the one hand claimed to solve the case on the other hand failed to recover the lost pages of book.
5. Today Punjab CM claimed that police arrested both brothers with the help of village people. But according to media reports village people are protesting on roads against the arrests.

It seems that whole case is framed up by government & Punjab Police (world famous for human right abuses). Clearly something is fishy & government is trying to save someone in this particular case. This act of Police has created more anger in protesters. I don't think they will calm down easily now. Government has totally failed to understand & solve the situation.

thanks for the detail.