The real surgical strikes in Afghanistan

[Windjammer]

So your problem was with the means of achieving rather than the achievement , excellent so we agree on the achievement part but disagree on the mode of action.

Why cant all 3 be true , and why cant all 3 be false ? Consider the operation was not a single sector nor a single team effort but spread across multiple sectors.

I am not as enlightened like you ( considering i am an Indian by birth ) so pardon my questioning on armed forces operational doctrines and i will take your word for it. I am trying to think like a commoner with a common sense and common knowledge rather than a invincible nationalistic keyboard warrior claiming to have inside information on the subject.

2 Add 2 makes 4 but if some start insisting on 2 and 2 as 22.....then you can't exactly argue with them.
As for the rest, it's ironic that due to the tension on the borders, there was more vigilance by eitrher side hence the solitary figure of Chandu lal was immediately picked up as he crossed the border but dozens of Indian soldiers allegedly entering at several points and remaining for an hour went totally unnoticed or checked, one can be an Indian, Pakistani or even Ethiopian to work that one out.

Lol that much inferiority complex ,they have to title this thread as "real" knowing everyone gonna call it's fake.

chor ki dhadhi mai tinka.

Any guy with brain can see how hard he is trying to convince himself. I say be human and let him have peace brother.

When you talk to yourself, i guess you get the best answers.
Obviously the term has touched some raw nerve or as you put it, chor ki .....
BTW, keep taking the tablets. hope you get better soon.

 

[B2B]

2 Add 2 makes 4 but if some start insisting on 2 and 2 as 22.....then you can't exactly argue with them.
As for the rest, it's ironic that due to the tension on the borders, there was more vigilance by eitrher side hence the solitary figure of Chandu lal was immediately picked up as he crossed the border but dozens of Indian soldiers allegedly entering at several points and remaining for an hour went totally unnoticed or checked, one can be an Indian, Pakistani or even Ethiopian to work that one out.

The 2 and 2 logic holds true only for me ( Indians ) or generally , because i find many including you are regular offenders to this same theory.

As i told you i am not bright enough as you to understand operational doctrines yet the common man in me gives me the understanding of the terrain along the LOC and how difficult it is to actually pick up anybody crossing the borders.

India having spent billions still can never prevent cross border infiltration and similarly with Pakistan. With heightened vigilance the probability of catch still remains low on such a scenario.

There are huge gaps in operational readiness along the IB with easier geographical conditions , be it with signals , communications or electronic on either side. You hoping for a 100 % detection and response of any sort from either parties in such an event is flattery and nothing more. That you got 1 adds onto the theory of probability.

 

[Sam.]

When you talk to yourself, i guess you get the best answers.
Obviously the term has touched some raw nerve or as you put it, chor ki .....
BTW, keep taking the tablets. hope you get better soon.

I feel for you brother , please have peace. Try harder btw Pakistani people are not fools.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

We should ask Russia to bring the delivery date of Mi-35 sooner.

We need these pieces NOW.

 

[Windjammer]

The 2 and 2 logic holds true only for me ( Indians ) or generally , because i find many including you are regular offenders to this same theory.

As i told you i am not bright enough as you to understand operational doctrines yet the common man in me gives me the understanding of the terrain along the LOC and how difficult it is to actually pick up anybody crossing the borders.

India having spent billions still can never prevent cross border infiltration and similarly with Pakistan. With heightened vigilance the probability of catch still remains low on such a scenario.

There are huge gaps in operational readiness along the IB with easier geographical conditions , be it with signals , communications or electronic on either side. You hoping for a 100 % detection and response of any sort from either parties in such an event is flattery and nothing more. That you got 1 adds onto the theory of probability.

Forget offending the 2 plus 2 theory you are acutely mixing Apples and Oranges.
Whatever the geography of the border, it's a double edge sword, if monitoring it is difficult then so is accessing it....besides, you are forgetting the main point altogether, while those infiltrating into say IOK, are usually in single digit and they don't exactly enter, execute and retreat at the throw of a hat, they usually blend in, lie in wait to ambush some convoy or attack some guard post, here you are talking about dozens entering exactly at points to attack the so called launch pads (Not sure, maybe demarcated on the Maps)... as i said, even if such a thing exists, under the circumstances, wouldn't they be more alert. And then while there's no remorse in showing off a the dreaded Pakistani spy pigeon, suddenly there's concern about releasing a single image of the operation.

I feel for you brother , please have peace. Try harder btw Pakistani people are not fools.

Well you should tell that to your Netas as well alas i too feel for you since your own leaders take you for fools.

 

[Rain]

Summary so far:
Shelling confirmed.
May have been a hot pursuit into Afganistan or two.
No reports of PAF actions.

Curious case: why Ghani govt asked Pak to release 150 Afghan. Where from those numbers and where arested from? Were thy captured from Afghanistan or within Pakistan.

 

[B2B]

I will try and answer your points.
@Windjammer

1. The pigeon story which you keep referring to many a time : That the India-Pakistan Border is a place of movement of goods and commodities in all weather cannot be denied by counter arguments. There exists a parallel economy , workforce all together. Most of these smugglers are petty thieves and their handlers who do business across the borders on either side. That this practice is long standing is a very common idea and known to all. These are not organized 21st century tech-savvy criminals, they rely on age old techniques of intelligence gathering and message transfers including pigeons , rats and even the dead ( I suggest you read on the cold war documents of KGB and their message transfers using dead rats as a tool )The local policemen tries his luck on getting to the first page of the news paper or prime-time with his non-brainer attitude. ( Such no-brainers are existent on both sides , dont deny it )
That such a news gets picked up and reported across shows the reach of the greater Indian media houses while most across the border never gets their time under the flashlights.
( You staying in UK would appreciate the reach of the media into various spaces of less importance )
A similar analogy is found on the Indian Eastern border with Bangladesh where grazing animals are used as means of such communication.

Now give this pigeon story a miss , in all reality its a very handy tool of communication across borders for these criminals. Even today there are free agents spread across these borders who works for no agency, country or forces but themselves or the higher bidder. You must take their consent or help if you want your stuff to reach your destination. Most recently in the last 2 decades there free agents have been picked up by intel guys to do some of their dirty work , so the risk and fear is genuine.

2. The infiltrator issue of being in small numbers and disorganized makes sense yet you fail to understand that these guys have a free licence, the men in uniform there dont have that luxury. That such a strike needed permission and special combat forces with advanced logistics and planning provides the counter argument.
Whom do you think actually crossed over and attacked these bases , these are not the normal sepoy guarding the peaks and posts but assigned form a special forces group.
That Pakistan responded to these are well documented and recognized by the Indian forces briefing.

3. Regarding releasing operational details , which armed forces would do that ? Find out de-classified reports from the era of cold war and see how may times things were hidden , twisted , how and why.
Documents are released by media hungry , propaganda machines who wants to play to the galleries not by professional armed forces which the Indian Army is.The politicians in India tried to make a quick one up on each other on the Army's achievements yet they failed miserably .Your only argument was pointing to some of these frenzied comments by such politicians and nothing more.

I hope today's attack by Pakistan and their subsequent fall-outs gives you the understanding why Armed forces act in the way they do. I sincerely hope you know all these , yet take a nationalist approach to belittle Indian achievements. Being a nationalist is fine but belittling Indian armed forces does not score any points on the real world. The armed forces are chosen from within us , they are also human beings with faults and virtues. That there are no absolutes on either side of this border is a reality which you cannot change with mere rhetoric on a defence forum.

 

[Avijit]

No actually they descend on PDF to be enlightened but you can't help them.

:|

 

[SQ8]

Excuse me, what makes you think that, all my family is gathered in his house at this point of time, I don't know where did you get this delusion from.

I would suggest you check out which son of tamim hashmi was killed before making a statement
Thats all

 

[YeBeWarned]

why are Pakistani Posters replying to Indian Trolls ?
@Windjammer @IceCold why wasting your time brothers ?

 

[Skywalker]

I would suggest you check out which son of tamim hashmi was killed before making a statement
Thats all

That's taha who else...I had been ringing him since this morning, I only found out last night. Obviously I can't discuss my relationship with Tamim Bhai on an open forum. PM me...thanks.

 

[SQ8]

That's taha who else...I had been ringing him since this morning, I only found out last night. Obviously I can't discuss my relationship with Tamim Bhai on an open forum. PM me...thanks.

Taha isnt the eldest

 

[Passionaire]

Pakistan’s Cross-Durand Line Incursions Slammed

Leaders demand that Islamabad take action against madrasas and Taliban offices fueling terrorism in Afghanistan

Residents from southern provinces of Afghanistan on Saturday condemned the rocket shelling by Pakistan in parts of Afghanistan’s provinces along the Durand Line – the de facto border between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

They said they wanted an end to the bombings by Pakistan and called for serious investigations into the attacks.

“Pakistan should close the madrasas on its soil which are spreading extremism and also stop financing the madrasas if it really wanted peace and stability for the people of the two countries,” said Mohammad Rahman Qaderi, member of Paktika Provincial Council.

“Terrorists are always trained in Pakistan and are sent here [to Afghanistan]. Pakistan wants to divert the attention of the world in another direction,” said Hafizullah, another member of the council.

Meanwhile the residents said they condemn the attack at the shrine in Pakistan and demanded that Islamabad explain its rocket shelling of Afghan territory.

“Pakistan should arrest Taliban and other terrorists who are active in Pakistani and have offices there,” said Zmarak, a tribal elder in Paktika.

“The [religious] scholars who are in Pakistan will never act against interests of that country, but they send people under different names to Afghanistan and are using them here [in Afghanistan] as mujahid, Taliban or as Daesh,” said Mawlawi Khwaja-ul-Din Haqbayan, a religious scholar in the province.

The community condemnations come after at least 200 missiles from Pakistan landed in Kunar and Nangarhar provinces of Afghanistan over the past two days.

http://www.tolonews.com/afghanistan/provincial/pakistan’s-cross-durand-line-incursions-slammed

 

[NOWorNEVER]

industan Times, Islamabad

The Pakistan Army said it had information that terrorists in Afghanistan were behind Thursday’s suicide bombing at the Lal Shahbaz Qalandar Sufi shrine in southern Sindh that killed 88 people. (AFP)

The Afghan government summoned Pakistan’s ambassador on Saturday, hours after Islamabad reportedly launched “strikes” on militant bases in the neighbouring country’s eastern provinces, increasing tension between the two sides.

Afghanistan’s foreign ministry summoned ambassador Abrar Hussain in Kabul, where deputy foreign minister Hekmat Khalil Karzai sought an explanation but also conveyed his condolences for recent suicide attacks in Pakistan. In its protest, Afghanistan said at least two people were killed and two others wounded in the shelling. In response, Pakistan foreign office spokesman Nafees Zakarya told the media that Islamabad was gathering more information on this development and Pakistan’s embassy in Afghanistan has been contacted.

The Pakistan Army said it had information that terrorists from across the border were behind Thursday’s suicide bombing at the Lal Shahbaz Qalandar Sufi shrine in southern Sindh that killed 88 people. Hours after the bombing, Pakistani security forces have launched a nationwide operation that, they say, has left more than 100 “terrorists” dead.

The army on Friday had summoned Afghan diplomats and handed them a list of 76 militants who, they say, were supporting terror activities in Pakistan. Immediately after the attack in Sindh, Pakistan claimed the attack was planned in militant sanctuaries in Afghanistan, in remarks that could renew hostility between Kabul and Islamabad.

Geo TV channel, quoting military sources, reported that strikes were launched on the militant bases on Afghan soil on Friday night. But there has been no official word on the strikes, which, if confirmed, would be the first such operation by the Pakistan Army.


The Pakistan army reportedly targeted a training camp of Jamaat-ul-Ahrar — the banned terror group which had claimed responsibility for the February 13 suicide bombing in Lahore and another suicide attack on the headquarters of the Mohmand Agency’s political administration on February 15. Some reports said several militants, including the deputy commander of Jamaat-ul-Ahrar, Adil Bacha, were killed in the strikes.

Afghanistan has also protested the closure of the border from the Pakistan side on two crossings - Torkham and Chaman border. The army also said the Pak-Afghan border has been closed since Friday night due to security reasons.

“No cross-border or unauthorised entry will be allowed into Pakistan from Afghanistan,” read an Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) statement issued on Friday, putting pressure on Afghanistan as trade had come to a halt.

According to the ISPR, a few hours before the attack was reported, army chief Gen Qamar Javed Bajwa had called Gen John Nicholson, commander of the US’s Resolute Support Mission in Afghanistan, to protest continued acts of terrorism in Pakistan perpetrated from Afghanistan, saying they were “testing” Pakistan’s policy of cross-border restraint.

Bajwa had told Nicholson that recent incidents of terrorism in Pakistan had been claimed by terrorist organisations whose leadership is hiding in Afghanistan, and asked him to play his role in “disconnecting this planning, direction, coordination and financial support”.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world...oy-summoned/story-UTtHpiCJMkGO4WcF0wQIMI.html

 

[schoolboy]

I hope today's attack by Pakistan and their subsequent fall-outs gives you the understanding why Armed forces act in the way they do.

I am surprised you have the patience to spend so much time responding to his posts.

It is said that one understands another's plight only when faced with the same hardship and in a similar situation.

A few months ago the Pakistani posters on PDF were furious at suggestions that Kashmiri terrorists were operating from bases in Pakistan - funded and trained by the Pakistan army. They reacted with great indignation when the government of india announced (unnecessarily - in my view) that terrorist camps on the Pakistani side of the border had been targeted. Some suggested it was an act of war, others that it was an act of foolishness, yet others denied it altogether.

Today Pakistan is undertaking the same action, on a different - though similar border - using the same justification and targeting similar groups - after having made similar demands on the neighbouring (Afghan) government. Yet they will believe and post that this is entirely justified, necessary self-defense, morally defensible, militarily workable and strategically wise.

I hope they appreciate what we face (and have faced for decades).