The real Seoul story: At the NSG plenary, China behaved not as an enlightened power

[illusion8]

As an Australian citizen i can tell you the Howard liberal government out did the NPT way before India even thought of getting in to the NSG, The mining boom of the 2000's put an end to all trade embargoes the labor government imposed, That had nothing to do with anything India specific, Same goes to Canada.. For these nations who are the suppliers, trade out weighs any other protocol

The thing is India does'nt really need the NSG, As far as the nuclear interests were concerned.. They already have the bi lateral waiver, This was all about power projection and India's status as a growing power and acceptance, The problem was it was ill conceived and ill timed maybe bad judgement about the US support and capability maybe over confidence by the Modi government, In the end it ended up a major diplomatic disaster for India, How many attempts of sugar coating it or blaming China would'nt change that, And for a aspiring global leader this was a highly damaging to India's standing.. One reason the overreaction and bitterness to it from most quarters in India

You have a poor understanding of realpolitik, especially for someone who harps about it.

You come with a bias against India and an obvious tilt towards the commies..understandable due to your Sri Lankan origin.

The Australian deliberations took 5 years and against pretentious holier than thou legislatures who kept opposing it.

The economy was one side of angle, a few legislatures even opposed that on grounds of holiness.

But then, the Indo Pacific alliance scored out.

Lol..damaging to India, that's the worst assessment I have read. ..point scoring for th Chinese and the pakistanis doesn't really count as damaging..when we have all the support from the Americans, Russians, brits, french, Germans, Australians, Canadians..even the Italians came around...vs the chinese pakistani nexus.

And you call that damaging?.

The chinese bitterly oppose the rise of India and that has been made crystal clear.

 

[Gibbs]

Calling PDF a "shit grade" forum i think he hasn't visited Indian defence forums yet....

As one of the more sensible Indian posters here once stated most Indian posters are college kids that have never stepped out of their state let alone the country passing time making idiots out of them selves here when they get tired of jerking off to internet ****.. I for one wont engage with them for more than once, Thats why i tend to discuss matters with those tried and tested posters here

 

[ito]

What China did was what it thought were in its national interest. India should do what it thinks is in its national interest. The quest for NSG, and UNSC by India will continue. India wants a place on high table and China will deny India that. China thinks that India is its rival. So India has a big task on its hand on convincing China to relent.

 

[arbit]

Thats exactly how the US hit a home run from this whole NSG fiasco, They promoted India knowing very well that China and few other countries wont waiver protocol that they the US themselves set in the NSG admission, They knew India will never get the nod, So they duped India though their campaign, India was left battered and bruised diplomatically, China was made to be the bad guy and created a further rift between India and China at a time when there is power play in the SCS and the US attempts of establishing a military foothold in South Asia.. Again the super power wins

In this buffoon's "analysis" India and US are not two independent nations with their interests in mind, rather US is a puppeteer and India is just a puppet. Hence US has hit a home run and India was led into a fiasco by its incompetent leadership.
And to further that, inspite of knowing that US and India can not win against the mighty VETO of china, they still went around canvassing bipartisan support for our candidature. Well what a fool India and US are! They should let the fear of failure dictate the foreign policy.
Also India despite having unprecedented near universal support, was left 'battered and bruised". LEGIT.

China despite being using its veto against us and doing everything AGAINST us was just "made" to look like the bad guy. Hey in reality they are the saints. US "made" them look bad. Yeah right. Totally legit man!

Ignore him.

But its very much possible what he said. Its possible that US just wants a favour in return for a favour and by taking up this far they have done thier job as they may think. But then why would US have any problem with India entering NSG. Some things are not as clear as they look. Just opinions bro i may be biased due to me being US hater.

Hater is a strong word. Look after your own interest and chill.

 

[The Sandman]

As one of the more sensible Indian posters here once stated most Indian posters are collage kids that have never stepped out of their state let alone the country passing time making idiots out of them selves here when they get tired of jerking off to internet ****.. I for one wont engage with them for more than once, Thats why i tend to discuss matters with those tried and tested posters here

I agree there are only few good indian posters imo rest of them... well you said it all in your post

 

[Gibbs]

You come with a bias against India and an obvious tilt towards the commies..understandable due to your Sri Lankan origin.

The Australian deliberations took 5 years and against normal holier than thou legislatures who kept opposing it.

The economy was one side of angle, a few legislatures even opposed that on grounds of holiness.

That's because internal politics of Australia, Nothing to do with realpolitik.. No offense but you need to understand to make the difference between the two, The labor party had a very strong base in the senate at that time, So major deliberations were needed by the government to pass the waiver.. And this was done without the consent of the Australian people, In general the Aussies are still against the enactment, But anybody who knows about the internal affairs of Australia know how strong the mining lobby is

I think we're diverting from the subject here, If you're interested in Australian politics we can discuss it elsewhere

Just add another minor benefit of NSG membership for India.

Sealing any future chance of China attempt to nullify India's NSG waiver. Granted there is little chance for this as it would be Herculean task and overwhelmingly more difficult than India's current NSG membership application.

I agree, But i dont think China has any influence of the NSG waiver anyway, Is'nt it bilateral ?

 

[911]

Hater is a strong word.

Yes i know it did't built overnight

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

I agree, But i dont think China has any influence of the NSG waiver anyway, Is'nt it bilateral ?

Nope, it went through the same drama as India NSG membership.

Same nuclear hippies Austria, NZ and Ireland attempted to reject it.

China too attempted to resist this, however Republican Americans went to great lengths of arm-twisting.

 

[Gibbs]

Nope, it went through the same drama as India NSG membership.

Same nuclear hippies Austria, NZ and Ireland attempted to reject it.

China too attempted to resist this, however Republican Americans went to great lengths of arm-twisting.

Yeah but those decisions were taken at a bilateral level wasn't it, Not through a body like the NSG.. Correct me if i'm wrong

 

[illusion8]

That's because internal politics of Australia, Nothing to do with realpolitik.. No offense but you need to understand to make the difference between the two, The labor party had a very strong base in the senate at that time, So major deliberations were needed by the government to pass the waiver.. And this was done without the consent of the Australian people, In general the Aussies are still against the enactment, But anybody who knows about the internal affairs of Australia know how strong the mining lobby is

I think we're diverting from the subject here, If you're interested in Australian politics we can discuss it elsewhere



I agree, But i dont think China has any influence of the NSG waiver anyway, Is'nt it bilateral ?

You started it, the Australians are becoming a part of the anti chinese alliance now, and if I have you believe, "much against the wishes of the Australian populace" due to their inherent love for the chinese... Don't get me started on it.

Where did the strong "mining" lobby go now when 50-60% aus ore ends up in China.?.

 

[911]

In this buffoon's "analysis" India and US are not two independent nations with their interests in mind, rather US is a puppeteer and India is just a puppet. Hence US has hit a home run and India was led into a fiasco by its incompetent leadership.

Regardless of whoever says what here, India has always been independent in its policies and always be. However the guy here is talking about the possible intent of US to use India as a puppet.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Yeah but those decisions were taken at a bilateral level wasn't it, Not through a body like the NSG.. Correct me if i'm wrong

I think you are confusing Indo-US nuke deal with NSG waiver, though the former required the latter to function.

http://www.news18.com/videos/india/nsg-waiver-big-point-gfx-296700.html

https://web.archive.org/web/2008091...nvergence/ndtv/story.aspx?id=NEWEN20080064332

 

[Gibbs]

You started it, the Australians are becoming a part of the anti chinese alliance now, and if I have you believe, "much against the wishes of the Australian populace" due to their inherent love for the chinese... Don't get me started on it.

China is Australia's largest trading partner, With the raw material exports to China the Australian economy would collapse, But on the other hand it's security interests lies in the Western sphere since WW1.. China is not a threat to Australia it's interests lie elsewhere, And vise versa, Australia territorial issues are much closer to a growing Indonesia.. So it's not as simple as you try to portray.. National interests arnt that simple anyway..

I dont know what i "started" ? Can you elaborate ?

I think you are confusing Indo-US nuke deal with NSG waiver, though the former required the latter to function.

http://www.news18.com/videos/india/nsg-waiver-big-point-gfx-296700.html

Oh ok tah for the info

 

[arbit]

You started it, the Australians are becoming a part of the anti chinese alliance now, and if I have you believe, "much against the wishes of the Australian populace" due to their inherent love for the chinese... Don't get me started on it.

Australians will first take the opinion of Sri lankan origin his royal australian highness first before deciding on an issue of national importance lest it goes against the lovely chinese

 

[illusion8]

China is Australia's largest trading partner, With the raw material exports to China the Australian economy would collapse, But on the other hand it's security interests lies in the Western sphere since WW1.. China is not a threat to Australia it's interests lie elsewhere, And vise versa, Australia territorial issues are much closer to a growing Indonesia.. So it's not as simple as you try to portray.. National interests arnt that simple anyway..

I dont know what i "started" ? Can you elaborate ?



Oh ok tah for the info

You missed the "strong mining lobby"..why would they not overturn the Australian parliament, the Australian people for the sake of continous exports to the chinese..when they so easily could do it in the case of India..buddy, you are bordering on the realm of absurdity in your obvious bias.