The real Seoul story: At the NSG plenary, China behaved not as an enlightened power

[twocents]

Thank you, but you have caught me by surprise. Why should we have to agree to respect each other?

PS: An amusing thought that occurs to me is that I actually get rather more respect from those members who are NOT Indian than those that are Indian! I suppose I am a pain in the arse.

It's not that hard to understand. As an independent thinking type of individual you tend not to follow the (Indian) crowd. Little wonder then that you are their favorite.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

This post reflects perfectly the transactional approach that Chinese members have started adopting of late. As is typical of China and of Chinese members, everyone takes up the matter in close concert, in lockstep. It is amusing to consider a similar reaction from Indian members, rather than the outburst of argument that Amartya Sen captured so well in his book on the Indian outlook on addressing any interesting issue.

Well sure, China and India are not friends or allies, so the relationship is bound to be transactional in nature.

However as of late, India's diplomacy seems to be based more on emotions rather than anything else. Which doesn't make any sense in terms of Realpolitik.

Why should they expect China's NSG support for free, when we are clearly not friends? And when they paid out of their nose to America for the exact same support?

As for all Chinese people taking up the matter in "lockstep", you'll be interested to know that my opinion is not the same as China's official stance. The official stance is that India needs to sign the NPT before joining, which is impossible.

My stance/opinion is a lot more flexible than that.

 

[Mentee]

PS: An amusing thought that occurs to me is that I actually get rather more respect from those members who are NOT Indian than those that are Indian! I suppose I am a pain in the arse.

A simple yes to their fancies would be ample enough to be in their good books--- you behave like their sir mastan khan------ and as for the respect part sir g tusi ty saadi Jan o

 

[Joe Shearer]

A simple yes to their fancies would be ample enough to be in their good books--- you behave like their sir mastan khan------ and as for the respect part sir g tusi ty saadi Jan o

I wish it were that easy, to agree with them and their follies. And thank you!!

Well sure, China and India are not friends or allies, so the relationship is bound to be transactional in nature.

However as of late, India's diplomacy seems to be based more on emotions rather than anything else. Which doesn't make any sense in terms of Realpolitik.

Why should they expect China's NSG support for free, when we are clearly not friends? And when they paid out of their nose to America for the exact same support?

As for all Chinese people taking up the matter in "lockstep", you'll be interested to know that my opinion is not the same as China's official stance. The official stance is that India needs to sign the NPT before joining, which is impossible.

My stance/opinion is a lot more flexible than that.

I'll get back in detail on this and your previous post. I am on duty at the moment, at a sick relative's bedside.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

China has made all of us a target. My foolish countrymen cannot see it and the Chinese cannot understand it without offence. That is more than a billion people who are running out of resources and space. They need someplace to go where they can continue their strip mining of resources to survive. Guess who is closest to them with abundant natural resources?

Have to disagree with you sir.

In terms of food, China has the largest agricultural output in the world, and the 3rd largest amount of arable land in the world. In terms of energy, according to the World Bank website, China only imports around 14% of our energy usage, one of the lowest in the world. Domestic coal and hydroelectricity provide the vast majority of our energy needs, in the future we will attempt to harness our Shale gas reserves (number 1 largest in the world).

Contrary to common conceptions, China is in fact abundant in resources. Even in terms of something basic like conventional oil (not Shale) we are the world's 4th largest oil producer, we currently produce more annually than Iran and Iraq.

You are right though, there will be a resource crunch, and the resource in question is actually water. You need large amounts of water... for both agriculture, and industry. And for human consumption as well. The future food problems you are referring to are actually water problems, since that is the limiting factor.

Which of course is why India has always been upset about Chinese Tibet, since the Tibetan Plateau is the water tower of Asia, and the source of most of its major rivers. It's the same reason why Pakistan is upset about IOK, because the Indus River flows through there (though it too originates in the Tibetan plateau of China). These things will be the real conflict points of the future, in many parts of the world the water resources have already begun to fade.

 

[faithfulguy]

Thank you, but you have caught me by surprise. Why should we have to agree to respect each other?

PS: An amusing thought that occurs to me is that I actually get rather more respect from those members who are NOT Indian than those that are Indian! I suppose I am a pain in the arse.

Most Indian members regard you as a traitor because you do not toe the line of their unreasonable boasting. But in doing so, you gain the respect of others.
.

 

[SQ8]

You are right though, there will be a resource crunch, and the resource in question is actually water. You need large amounts of water... for both agriculture, and industry. And for human consumption as well. The future food problems you are referring to are actually water problems, since that is the limiting factor.

Which of course is why India has always been upset about Chinese Tibet, since the Tibetan Plateau is the water tower of Asia, and the source of most of its major rivers. It's the same reason why Pakistan is upset about IOK, because the Indus River flows through there (though it too originates in the Tibetan plateau of China). These things will be the real conflict points of the future, in many parts of the world the water resources have already begun to fade.

Well, based on this you dont actually disagree with me at all. I refer to a future scenario that you have outlined.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Well, based on this you dont actually disagree with me at all. I refer to a future scenario that you have outlined.

Sure, but why would China attack outside of our borders when the water tower of Asia is within our own borders?

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Sure, but why would China attack outside of our borders when the water tower of Asia is within our own borders?

Water is the key future of Asia, we will have a lot of fun to deal with India, they should pray that we won't steal the monsoon from them or we can completely ruin India geographically.