The princely city of Jessore

[dray]

You won't be able to protect Bengali in West Bengal. Ultimately It will turn Half Hindi Half Bengali state. Non Bengalis are already increasing in WB day by day. Ultimately Bengali Literature will find its last and only refuge in Bangladesh.

Here Jamatis want to throw anything 'Bengali' into the Bay of Bengal, lock, stock & barrel, and and you are talking about Bangladesh being the last refuge of Bengali!!! Jamatis with their political allies will come to power in Bangladesh someday; 10 years of them and Bengali literature, music, poetry will become 'mushriki' or whatever that is in Bangladesh, and the works of 'malauns' like Tagore, Bibhutibhushan, Sarat Chandra will become 'jahalat' (or whatever).

Bangladeshis only take insult when they were falsely associated with hindus.

And Bengalis.....

@Top Cat does not know that the Turkic people came to Indian north and east with Muhammed Ghori in 1190s. It was long before the Buddhist Cheghiz Khan came to the political field. Cheghiz was not a Turkic, but a Mongol. Hazara of Afghanistan and Pakistan is a mixed race of people between later Mongols and Pathans. These Hazaras speak Pashtu, but say they are the Hazaras. President Ayub Khan of Pakistan was a Hazara, and President Yahya Khan was a Kizilbash (Iranian stock).

Right, Bangladeshis are not Bengalis, they are turks and mongols.....I am okay with that.

 

[bluesky]

Here Jamatis want to throw anything 'Bengali' into the Bay of Bengal, lock, stock & barrel, and and you are talking about Bangladesh being the last refuge of Bengali!!! Jamatis with their political allies will come to power in Bangladesh someday; 10 years of them and Bengali literature, music, poetry will become 'mushriki' or whatever that is in Bangladesh, and the works of 'malauns' like Tagore, Bibhutibhushan, Sarat Chandra will be become 'jahalat' (or whatever).

And Bengalis.....

Right, Bangladeshis are not Bengalis, they are turks and mongols.....I am okay with that.

Your Indian-style womanly debate will not change the course of history that was unfurled many Centuries ago. I say what the history books of those periods say. History also says Brahmin and Kayastha Hindus who were educated, took well-paid jobs in the domiciled foreign Muslim Gaur and other local administrations after 1200. They came into contact with the foreign Muslims, learned Persian brought by these Muslims and landed jobs in the administrations. These people were out caste by their fellow religionists, and finally the Hindu social stigma they were put into forced them to accept Islam.

They were Hindus, but there were other non-Hindu Sudra groups who also converted themselves to Islam during Mughal period not before 1576 during and after Akbar. Akber sent at least a thousand Peers and Aulias to Bengal to spread Islam, albeit, to solidify the Mughal position in Bengal after the win in the Rajmahal Battle near Subarnarekha river of Orissa in 1576.

 

[dray]

Your Indian-style womanly debate

Hmmm........as claimed by the Bangladeshis here, half of the Bangladeshis are direct descendents of Ghenghis Khan, and the other half are direct descendents of Mohammad Ghori, Bangladeshis are bery bery martial race.

And certainly they are not Bengalis.

Case closed.

 

[itsanufy]

SC% 23
ST% 5.5
OBC% 39
87% of total Muslim population are OBC.
Now these group has a reservation of 49.5% in all sphere. So these people has better chance of getting jobs in West Bengal.

There is certainly no caste system among the Muslims of Bangladesh. However, I must admit some old families with certain Family Titles are well regarded in the society. But, this does not prohibit taking or giving daughters in matrimony with with other groups of people. It is certainly same in west Bengal.

Islam prohibits making a differentiation on the origin of people. However, we must understand a daughter from a well-off family is not given to a poor family. But, it is the difference of social status only and does not indicate a caste system. But, in Punjabi Muslims there are stratification based on different backgrounds. I know about Rajput and Jat Muslims. Someone can hilite about this matter.


@TopCat does not know that the Turkic people came to Indian north and east with Muhammed Ghori in 1190s onward. It was a few decades before the Buddhist Cheghiz Khan came to the political field. Cheghiz was not a Turkic, but a Mongol. Hazara of Afghanistan and Pakistan is a mixed race of people between later Mongols and Pathans. These Hazaras speak Pashtu, but look different and say they are the Hazaras. President Ayub Khan of Pakistan was a Hazara, and President Yahya Khan was a Kizilbash (Iranian stock).

Certainly not in West Bengal. Here there is a rigid demarkation between higher and lower cast muslims. As I told they are not even buried in same graveyard.

 

[TopCat]

[QUOTE="itsanufy, post: 8699]
Certainly not in West Bengal. Here there is a rigid demarkation between higher and lower cast muslims. As I told they are not even buried in same graveyard.[/QUOTE]

What the fck you talking about. WB muslim socieyy except the biharis are pretty much same as bangladeshis. Graveyard are private properties. Why would anybody let others to burry their dead in their property. We dont unless its a special case.

 

[Bilal9]

I am not wrong, দাদা। Do you want source?

here it is @itsanufy


বৌদ্ধ ধর্মের সাথে শৈব ধর্মের মিশ্রণের নতুন এক ধর্মমতের উদ্ভব হয়েছিল বলে পণ্ডিতদের অনেকেরই ধারণা। নাথ মানে ‘প্রভু’ এই প্রভুর দীক্ষান্তে তারা নামের শেষে নাথ পদবী ব্যবহার করতেন। তারা ছিলেন অলৌকিক ক্ষমতায় সিদ্ধহস্ত। বিশেষ সাধন প্রক্রিয়ার মাধ্যমে মোক্ষ লাভ করাই ছিল এ ধর্মাবলম্বীদের আসল উদ্দেশ্য। এই ধর্মের সাধকগন অপরাপর ধর্মাদর্শের মত দেহ থেকে জীবনাবসানে মুক্তিলাভের পরিকল্পনা করেননি। তাদের জীবন মুক্তির আদর্শ ছিল অশুদ্ধ, মায়া-বিমুক্ত, ধ্বংস রহিত পক্কদেহ, অর্থাৎ আধ্যাত্মিক শক্তি সামর্থ বলে আধ্যাত্মিক দেহে মুক্ত অবস্থায় অবাধে বিচরণ করা। অ-বিদ্যা বা অ-জ্ঞান মানব জীবনে তত্ত্বজ্ঞানের পথে বাধা বলে জীবন থেকে অ-বিদ্যা বিতাড়িত করে মহাজ্ঞান লাভের মাধ্যমে অগ্রসর হওয়াই ছিল নাথগনের উদ্দেশ্য। এ প্রসংগে ড.মুহম্মদ শহীদুল্লাহ বলেছেন, ‘নাথ পন্থ যে বৌদ্ধ মন্ত্রযান হইতে উদ্ভুত বা প্রভাবিত তাহাতে কোনই সন্দেহ নাই। এই নাথ পন্থ বৌদ্ধধর্মের মহাযান শাখার শূন্যবাদের উপর প্রতিষ্ঠিত।’ বাংলা সাহিত্যের মধ্যযুগে ধর্মীয় বিষয় নিয়ে সাহিত্য চর্চার যে বৈশিষ্ট্য বিরাজমান ছিল নাথ সাহিত্য সৃষ্টির পেছনেও সে বিষয়টিই কাজ করেছে বলে বিশিষ্ট জন ও পণ্ডিতেরা মনে করেন। তাদের মতে মহাজ্ঞান লাভের যে বাসনা সে সময়ে এই ধর্মমতের অনুসারীদের মধ্যে ছিল,তা থেকে তারা মনে করতেন এই মহাজ্ঞান তাদের অজয় অমর করবে। সাধনার মাধ্যমে দেহ পরিশুদ্ধ করে মহাজ্ঞান লাভের উপযোগী করে তুললে তাকে বলা হয় পরিপক্ক। আর এই পরিপক্ক দেহেই শিবশক্তির মিলন ঘটে। কারণ তারা শিবকে বিবেচনা করেন আদি গুরু হিসেবে। তাই তিনি হলেন আদিনাথ। তার শিষ্য হলেন মীননাথ বা মৎসেন্দ্র নাথ। নাথ ধর্মের প্রতিষ্ঠাতা হিসেবে গণ্য করা হয় এই মীন নাথকেই। ড.মুহম্মদ শহীদুল্লাহ’র মতের বিচারে নাথ পন্থাকে বৌদ্ধ ধর্মের একটি উপ-শাখা বলা যেতে পারে।


বৌদ্ধ সহজিয়া ধর্মমতে যে ৮৪ জন সিদ্ধার কথা পাওয়া যায়,এই চারজন নাথ সিদ্ধাও তার মধ্যে রয়েছেন।

And also the quoted post had Dineshchandra saying nath dharma bouddha dharma theke esheche

ভাই ডর খাইলাম। আপনি কি ইউনিভার্সিটি-তে পড়ান না তো?

So what

Even castism is there among the muslims in India, Bangladesh and Pakisthan. A Sayed will will not marry Qureshi.
Even I know cases where a high cast muslim didn't allowed a lower cast muslim to be buried in same graveyard, that too in communist Bengal.
Bangladesh has enough of such issues.

These are amazing stories that I have never heard of. In Islam all are equal - maybe you're talking about Pakistan, not Bangladesh. And the egalitarianism in Bengal is not all sourced from Islam. Part of the reason that we have successful micro-credit and other NGO programs - because we truly care for our less-advantaged.

Tagore wrote one small episode whereby his administrators in Shilaidaha Zamindary allocated only Pati/Shop for the Muslims and benches for the Hindus. It made Rabindranath annoyed when he entered the Darbar, and he himself sat on the floor, same as the Muslims to protest.

This I have heard from my grand-dad as well. Muslims were treated the same as untouchable.....sad episodes that are better to forgive and forget. The present generation of Hindus hopefully are more open-minded.....

BTW - to explain, 'Patee' is a reed-woven floormat. Most Muslims in East Bengal were not considered 'honorable' enough to sit on wooden benches by the then Hindu Zemindars....

 

[itsanufy]

What the fck you talking about. WB muslim socieyy except the biharis are pretty much same as bangladeshis. Graveyard are private properties. Why would anybody let others to burry their dead in their property. We dont unless its a special case.[/QUOTE]

Take my words, it happened in communist Bengal. As the matter got highlighted it called for a political interference and after a lot tussle she was allowed a burial.

There are similar incidents where the lower casts like muchi, methor, dom, kakmara are not allowed to enter the house. Infact gov has already marked 87 percent muslims as OBC, about 10 percent more either as ST or SC. These people are looked down by the remaining 15 percent.

But now things are getting improved a lot. I know a case where direct descendant of Nawab Wajid Ali Shaw got married to a an ansari. Please note Nawabs descendants resisted these marriages for generation.

I worked with an NGO for long, which allowed me to travel lengths and breadth of West Bengal. These things are more prevalent in the districts of Birbhum, Burwan, Murshidabd and Malda.

Here graves are not personal property, but comes under Wakf Board. They handles movable and immobile properties recognized by muslim law. A mini sharia board/court whatever you can say in the remote villages.

 

[bluesky]

I don't know.
Just this book says Puja Sangeet. But I don't think these are explicitly religious.

View attachment 335183

You can say the lines were written as a part of BONDONA in the local Hindu form with uses of many Sanskrit words.

 

[TopCat]

Take my words, it happened in communist Bengal. As the matter got highlighted it called for a political interference and after a lot tussle she was allowed a burial.

There are similar incidents where the lower casts like muchi, methor, dom, kakmara are not allowed to enter the house. Infact gov has already marked 87 percent muslims as OBC, about 10 percent more either as ST or SC. These people are looked down by the remaining 15 percent.

Muchi,methor etc are not Bengali origin and 90% of them are Hindus.

But now things are getting improved a lot. I know a case where direct descendant of Nawab Wajid Ali Shaw got married to a an ansari. Please note Nawabs descendants resisted these marriages for generation.

This is the question of social status. Did british royal approves the 2nd marriage of Charles? It is not a muslim issue.

I worked with an NGO for long, which allowed me to travel lengths and breadth of West Bengal. These things are more prevalent in the districts of Birbhum, Burwan, Murshidabd and Malda.

Here graves are not personal property, but comes under Wakf Board. They handles movable and immobile properties recognized by muslim law. A mini sharia board/court whatever you can say in the remote villages.

What you are saying is completely different thing than Hindu caste system. Dont try to equate Muslim with your nasty hindu social system, its laughable.