The Political Impact of Chinese President's Proposed Visit

[Chak Bamu]

OK, make bets - how long will this dharna last? Let us have a poll. I will launch a poll thread.

 

[nair]

In case you noticed, there is no popular support for the show of Anarchy. All the polls have consistently shown that the general public does not support this show of Anarchy.

PML-N won the elections. That could not be possible without solid support. It is still there. Most PML-N might have done is to ask the Chinese to pass a message to PA. The upcoming visit by Chineses President is just such a message. Otherwise, they might have cancelled the visit.

It is important to note that a few days ago, when SS returned from China, he refused to resign. He must have had his reasons. So, it is friends helping friends, and not interference as such.

Normally this kind of agitation starts up quite well, and picks up the momentum..... with few days of agitation the population start thinking and start analyzing the situation, and slowly they will move away and take a different stand..... It is very difficult to keep up the support for a long time....

no Bhai no.

It is not "interference". More like showing a trump card.

IK talked about "Umpire ki ungli".

NS showed the umpire that he can get better deals internationally.

If you ever look inside, most of the politics is local, and internal. No matter how much hell is raised in the name of "interference".,

Pakistan may be small compared to India

But still with close to 200 million population, is too big to manipulate. even by super power like USA.

Hope one day you can visit Islu and see it for yourself.

I agree the interference have been very less compared to previous instances, even the army was not taking a clear stand..... Yes i would love to visit once

 

[syedali73]

This is why we should find alternative to NS, and it better not be PPP. Who then? I am scratching my head.... Any suggestions? BTW this is a good next thread idea. Who shall lead Pakistan post-Nawaz Sharif?

We are dealing here with no democracy but dynasties. Who you will be seeing in coming years are none other than Hamza Shahbaz and Mariam Nawaz from House of Sharifs, Bilawal Bhutto Zardaria and Asifa Bhutto Zardari from the House of Bhuttos, sons and brothers of Wali Khan, Achakzai, etc etc. We as a nation have decided to remain the salves of few families, so be it. If this is what we have opted for, that is exactly what Allah is going to give to us.

Tu hi naadaN chand kaliyoN pey qana'at kar gaya,
warna gulshan meiN ilaje taNgi e damaaN bhi tha

 

[nair]

We are dealing here with no democracy but dynasties. Who you will be seeing in coming years are none other than Hamza Shahbaz and Mariam Nawaz from House of Sharifs, Bilawal Bhutto Zardaria and Asifa Bhutto Zardari from the House of Bhuttos, sons and brothers of Wali Khan, Achakzai, etc etc. We as a nation have decided to remain the salves of few families, so be it. If this is what we have opted for, that is exactly what Allah is going to give to us.

Tu hi naadaN chand kaliyoN pey qana'at kar gaya,
warna gulshan meiN ilaje taNgi e damaaN bhi tha

It is subcontinental problem mate....... Luckily for us there is a break from dynasty.....

 

[Chak Bamu]

We are dealing here with no democracy but dynasties. Who you will be seeing in coming years are none other than Hamza Shahbaz and Mariam Nawaz from House of Sharifs, Bilawal Bhutto Zardaria and Asifa Bhutto Zardari from the House of Bhuttos, sons and brothers of Wali Khan, Achakzai, etc etc. We as a nation have decided to remain the salves of few families, so be it. If this is what we have opted for, that is exactly what Allah is going to give to us.

Tu hi naadaN chand kaliyoN pey qana'at kar gaya,
warna gulshan meiN ilaje taNgi e damaaN bhi tha

The dynamics that propelled PTI are still there. Dynasty politics is perhaps a symptom (a temporary symptom) of political immaturity. With a couple of electoral cycles we will see real change.

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POLL: In How Many Days Will This Dharna be Wrapped UP?

Make bets and provide short opinions.

 

[FaujHistorian]

We are dealing here with no democracy but dynasties. Who you will be seeing in coming years are none other than Hamza Shahbaz and Mariam Nawaz from House of Sharifs, Bilawal Bhutto Zardaria and Asifa Bhutto Zardari from the House of Bhuttos, sons and brothers of Wali Khan, Achakzai, etc etc. We as a nation have decided to remain the salves of few families, so be it. If this is what we have opted for, that is exactly what Allah is going to give to us.

Tu hi naadaN chand kaliyoN pey qana'at kar gaya,
warna gulshan meiN ilaje taNgi e damaaN bhi tha

Shah Ji,

you start non-dynastic party, I'll vote for you.

and so will my tribe. hahaha

 

[Chak Bamu]

Shah Ji,

you start non-dynastic party, I'll vote for you.

and so will my tribe. hahaha

Cheeky reply...

 

[saiyan0321]

@saiyan0321 , MQM thing is just a bluff and bluster. There are not going to do anything. They are in opposition and they want to look like they are playing their part as opposition. Its just for talking points - nothing else. While Chinese president visits Pakistan, we can not make an omelette of our politics. Army will not allow it.

'They' will use MQM in some other way, later. 'They' are keeping the two trump cards with them. I hope you understand what I mean.

MQM will not join any dharna when it is in process of being wound up.

Then imrans position becomes even more perilous. The thing is now the govt wont give as much ground in negotiation as it once gave during the early days of dharna. Imran must find the best possible solution in all of this and go towards it. With the chinese president coming we truly cant afford to delay anymore. We must make sure this is wrapped up and sent home before his visit. Already we have lost enough face in the world without adding " chinese president cancels trip to pakistan due to the political instability of the country" in the Mix.
At this imran needs to find the perfect mix of being flexible and being firm in his demands focusing on the reform demand which was the backbone of the march and may be his only face saving option. His last face saving option. Govt will also want to wind this up quickly so that they can declare political victory and be ready for the chinese visit thus they may alos be willing to be a little more flexible in their approach ( atleast they should be).

Situation now calls for both parties to act maturely ( a thing that has alluded both the govt and the protestors).

 

[syedali73]

The dynamics that propelled PTI are still there. Dynasty politics is perhaps a symptom (a temporary symptom) of political immaturity. With a couple of electoral cycles we will see real change.

We will not see any change. You are here, and I am also here. We will see. Though I may no longer be very active here, but I will continue to pay visits, and keep asking time to time about your envisioned real change through the continued dynasty cycles. I am not a wise person, nor do I have any way to see into the future, but during all this time I have observed few things and learned few things, and based on those observations, I can educatedly guess if there is some light at the end of the tunnel or not.

 

[FaujHistorian]

It is subcontinental problem mate....... Luckily for us there is a break from dynasty.....

Well said.

BJP is like Jamat Islami of Pakistan. pro-shop keeper party that uses religious "idiot"ologies like Islamitva or Hindutva.

JI too have a system of replacing their top leadership and not allow family rule.

Unfortunately in Pakistan, people do not support such parties especially in the Punjab hinterlands. No party will be elected in Punjab hinterlands if it had done something like Babri fiasco.

There are exceptions though.

For example.

Urdu Speaking community of ours (aka descendants from Bihari/UP immigrants) was perhaps the only large group that used to support JI.

Sadly a much more chauvinist party aka MQM replaced JI in Karachi.

AH has a daughter. She is kind of young but who knows she may be the future ruler of Karachi.

 

[syedali73]

It is subcontinental problem mate....... Luckily for us there is a break from dynasty.....

And this is what my dynasty-democracy-loving countrymen most conveniently ignore. Pakistan IS not India, and due to our unique social and religious setup/culture, it would never be like India in 1000 years. Yes, India has gained a lot from an uninterrupted democratic process, but than India started out its journey with leaders such as Nehru, Patel, Azad. We on the other hand....

 

[FaujHistorian]

We will not see any change. You are here, and I am also here. We will see. Though I may no longer be very active here, but I will continue to pay visits, and keep asking time to time about your envisioned real change through the continued dynasty cycles. I am not a wise person, nor do I have any way to see into the future, but during all this time I have observed few things and learned few things, and based on those observations, I can educatedly guess if there is some light at the end of the tunnel or not.

Shah Ji

the problem with slogans like "change" is really simple and yet hugely complex.

how to define "Change" within specific time period.

Revolutionaries all over the world, want this change instantly like microwave cooking, like ramon noodles, like sex act by a pair of sparrows.

So what kind of time period you would suggest for a country teaming with 200 million ethnically and religiously and culturally diverse people?

15 seconds, 15 min, 15 hours, 15 days, 15 months, 15 years, or 150 years.

Just curious.

 

[SBD-3]

This perhaps was an SOS call from NS to China. A master stroke dare I say.

What IK and TuQ did (and their retired generals aka handlers) not realize that Chinese trust NS much much more compared to any other leader in PaK.

in the eyes of Chinese investors NS and SS have established themselves as honest leaders, who can cut through the red tape so common in the subcontinent baboo culture.

This does not go unnoticed by the many among serving generals in Pak army.

So the impact so far I see is positive and perhaps thanks to China, this crisis in Islu will be resolved soon.

However this is not a lose lose game for IK.

He too can use KPK as a base (though much smaller compared to Punjab), where Chinese investments are protected and Chinese make gazillians of dollars from Pakistani projects (just like they do in pretty much every other country in the world).

Chinese are willing to work with anybody until their investments are protected. Don't get me wrong but Chinese investment often comes with heavy margins. The only thing that held back the script writers was that the damage to Pakistan's image had Chinese President skipped Pakistan's visit and moved on to India instead. And script writers would have to bear the blame of this happening. We did see Srilankan president and another one (forgot that name) already delaying their visits but nobody cared because while they are very good friends but delay would not be interpreted as a critical signal. And the dharnas are shifting back to abpara for the time being. There's no guarantee that the dharnas would end and as long as dharnas are in Islamabad, there is always a threat that they will bounce back. Shahbaz shareef is meeting COAS to discuss something, the visit is quite surprising.

 

[FaujHistorian]

And this is what my dynasty-democracy-loving countrymen most conveniently ignore. Pakistan IS not India, and due to our unique social and religious setup/culture, it would never be like India in 1000 years. Yes, India has gained a lot from an uninterrupted democratic process, but than India started out its journey with leaders such as Nehru, Patel, Azad. We on the other hand....

If you study in detail, Nehru, Patel, Azad were no different than so many current and past leaders in Pak.

in fact TuQ is a ditto copy of Azad (aka Ghulam).

IK is ditto copy of Nehru -

Altaf Hussain a copy of Patel.


True credit for Indias success must be given to their educated elite from mostly Southern states who are docile, hard working, and yet very very pro-West. these hard working docile educated elite support their centuries old business elite like Tatas, thus bringing home shiploads of dollars.

Nehru and Patel were terrible. They kept this winning combo in socialist chains for the first 50 or so years depriving India from becoming an economic super power.

So please study India a bit.

and do not rely on Khawancha Firosh discussion that is so common in BIMARU states of India
(and thus the BIMARU people of Pakistan too).

 

[Chak Bamu]

We will not see any change. You are here, and I am also here. We will see. Though I may no longer be very active here, but I will continue to pay visits, and keep asking time to time about your envisioned real change through the continued dynasty cycles. I am not a wise person, nor do I have any way to see into the future, but during all this time I have observed few things and learned few things, and based on those observations, I can educatedly guess if there is some light at the end of the tunnel or not.

Sir, I do not claim to know what will happen in future. I only follow my analysis. Providence could prove me wrong. I hope I have not invested my ego into this thing.

I disagree that no change will happen. I have already seen change, but you do not think it is enough. I can only say that change will continue. Those who can not keep up with it shall be left behind. Actually dynasty politics is the requirement of rural area politicians who are looking to make an alliance with a pre-eminent family, with whom they can attach their political fortunes. The PTI's dynamic is driven by Urban and semi-urban activists of middle class. They will only increase in numbers and influence. You should take heart from the positive changes driven by demography.